Timber Fallers, Do You Understand This?

[slowp]

This is some dude on another forum telling folks how to buck out blowdown. I'm not sure I understand what he's saying. Your thoughts? The blue is a poster warning about the "expert". This is a thread about volunteer groups clearing out trails and certification was mentioned.

Token Civilian wrote:


For every ones sake, please, Please, PLEASE DO NOT follow Wastrals dangerously misguided words on cutting logs, vine maple, slide alder, etc that is under tension. There is NOT "Lots of warning", especially when cutting them the wrong way. When they go, they can go in the blink of an eye with nary a hint and with a tremendous amount of force, no matter if you're using axe or saw.



Can tell you haven't cut any of them(logs that is). Plenty of warning. It is all about positioning yourself to be out of the way when it does go. You should expect EVERY LOG YOU CUT to swing! Why you always position yourself on the opposite side of any potential swing. Whoever taught you, clearly is an idiot or you forgot this FIRST step in cutting. Why tons of warning? (Since it would appear you have never cut any and somehow are waving a certificate around as if you you know. Scary, but all too true in the certificate minded community.)

Your saw, be it a handsaw or chainsaw will lug(pinch) down as it is being pinched as you will be on the compression side unless you are a blithering idiot standing on the tension side. Especially with a handsaw or cross cut saw. Either you have the experience to know and pull saw blade out throwing in a wedge or two and keep pounding them in as you cut, or you know you have enough power in the chainsaws case to just keep on cutting keeping yourself out of the way. Either way, the wedge keeps it from SPRINGING if you are in any way worried about it. Thus all my previous comments about wedges and if you are so ignorant as to not know when/how to use them then you shouldn't be cutting!

Tensioned or compressed logs never go in a blink. Only an ignorant with no real world experience would say so. How it is cutting tells you everything you need to know. Every downed tree/log is like this, only depends how much.

Do try to read everything I wrote before replying instead of only what you choose to read.

PS. Throw that certificate in the trash. It would appear they A) never taught you, or B) You didn't learn.

 

[Spotted Owl]

Wow. The only thing good there is the disclaimer warning. Some folks you can teach and or help, and some you can't, they won't allow it. The later usually weed them selves out of the pool soon enough. Problem is they also usually have collateral damage along the way.

The only thing I understand about this is the guy posting it up is a blithering idiot, and sounds like he is lucky to get as far in his activities as he has.

If you wind up on a volunteer job with this guy avoid him like the plague. Or better yet cancel so you don't have to be around his aftermath.

Things go in a hurry. There can be more than one binding force going on at the same time. Anyone with time on the saw has seen thing go with out warning. From just a crack or pop to a full on explosion, no warning at all. There is no way to know how much force is in play in a bind, or how things are going to act and react to what is being done. You can have experienced and or educated guess at best.

Other than that I don't know what to say about this.

What does your experience tell you about him?



Owl

 

[treeslayer2003]

he either does not know how to talk or.......blithering idiot

 

[paccity]

or both.

 

[Gologit]

This is some dude on another forum telling folks how to buck out blowdown. I'm not sure I understand what he's saying. Your thoughts? The blue is a poster warning about the "expert". This is a thread about volunteer groups clearing out trails and certification was mentioned.

Token Civilian wrote:


For every ones sake, please, Please, PLEASE DO NOT follow Wastrals dangerously misguided words on cutting logs, vine maple, slide alder, etc that is under tension. There is NOT "Lots of warning", especially when cutting them the wrong way. When they go, they can go in the blink of an eye with nary a hint and with a tremendous amount of force, no matter if you're using axe or saw.



Can tell you haven't cut any of them(logs that is). Plenty of warning. It is all about positioning yourself to be out of the way when it does go. You should expect EVERY LOG YOU CUT to swing! Why you always position yourself on the opposite side of any potential swing. Whoever taught you, clearly is an idiot or you forgot this FIRST step in cutting. Why tons of warning? (Since it would appear you have never cut any and somehow are waving a certificate around as if you you know. Scary, but all too true in the certificate minded community.)

Your saw, be it a handsaw or chainsaw will lug(pinch) down as it is being pinched as you will be on the compression side unless you are a blithering idiot standing on the tension side. Especially with a handsaw or cross cut saw. Either you have the experience to know and pull saw blade out throwing in a wedge or two and keep pounding them in as you cut, or you know you have enough power in the chainsaws case to just keep on cutting keeping yourself out of the way. Either way, the wedge keeps it from SPRINGING if you are in any way worried about it. Thus all my previous comments about wedges and if you are so ignorant as to not know when/how to use them then you shouldn't be cutting!

Tensioned or compressed logs never go in a blink. Only an ignorant with no real world experience would say so. How it is cutting tells you everything you need to know. Every downed tree/log is like this, only depends how much.


PS. Throw that certificate in the trash. It would appear they A) never taught you, or B) You didn't learn.

The guy has way more mouth and bad ideas than he has experience. Anybody who has cut has seen things pop with little or no warning. Little stuff, big stuff, they'll all let loose on you sometimes.
I'd stay away from him and I'd try to see that he didn't influence others and get them hurt .

I wouldn't work with him and I wouldn't have him working for me.

 

[bustedup]

Been in the sun to long/partakes of modern chemistry or ......is nuts

 

[slowp]

I did say that he would go on my list of folks to never work with. Scary. I don't think he does any work with volunteers, luckily.

He's a good example of why there is a certification and training process for volunteers.

 

[HuskStihl]

Anybody who is that certain about a situation full of inherent uncertainty is probably wrong. I was moving small blowdown with a tractor once. The #### hit the fan so fast I couldn't believe it. Smashed the hood, but could have easily been me. Anybody who has shot a recurve bow has respect for the amount of power which can be stored in even small wood

 

[slowp]

Yup. I posted a couple of videos I took a few years ago when a microburst caused a blocked road for about a mile. I showed up first and started in on it, a couple of loggers showed up, but they were suffering from COPD and a concussion, finally, a guy I'd worked with before showed up and even though he was recovering from a near death (non-logging) accident, he started cutting away and I followed chunking stuff up and throwing it off the road. The cat was on the other side, of course, and would not start.

Anyway, the video shows how blowdown can act, and the "expert" on the other forum says it shows "how any Joe" can easily cut blowdown. Sigh....hope he doesn't do much.

 

[northmanlogging]

I hate blow downs... the only thing to be certain of is whether or not you have sharp corks and a good escape path.

Side, top, bottom bind sometimes all in one tree... stumps that may or may not fall an ya... possible cracks the entire length of the tree... massive breakage, generally a tangled ####ing mess, and your up 10-15' in the air at times... ick...

Apparently this Duder has never had a tree chair on him, or for that matter cut more than a few fire wood rounds for the campfire...

Granted I've never taken any certification crud... (although I should just for the business end of things) but for johny and jane newbie they are a wonderful thing to get people in the woods safely.

 

[roberte]

Yup. I posted a couple of videos I took a few years ago when a microburst caused a blocked road for about a mile. I showed up first and started in on it, a couple of loggers showed up, but they were suffering from COPD and a concussion, finally, a guy I'd worked with before showed up and even though he was recovering from a near death (non-logging) accident, he started cutting away and I followed chunking stuff up and throwing it off the road. The cat was on the other side, of course, and would not start.

Anyway, the video shows how blowdown can act, and the "expert" on the other forum says it shows "how any Joe" can easily cut blowdown. Sigh....hope he doesn't do much.

Sure any joe can cut blowdown, but not any joe can bring it down in the right order.

I might want to take a walk before i start hacking

 

[dooby]

A blown down tree is good for hiding things when the trunk is bucked off the root wad. But that thing has to be in the hole first! imo.:msp_sneaky:

 

[northmanlogging]

Ah geo caching at its finest...

 

[2dogs]

I have a real dumb look on my face in this pic. I was bucking this blow down and didn't read the side bind. The trunk moved about 5' in the blink of an eye. I only saw the bottom bind which was not much of a factor. Truth be told I was sort of in shock even though the trunk just pushed me because of where I was standing. It would have broken my leg if I was a foot father forward. Side bind kinda freaks me out now.

 

[derwoodii]

do your best to have somewhere to go even if you don't see it going wrong I've had all sorts of surprises buckin up storm work just been lucky so far the stored wood energy is amazing

[video=youtube;bRwkL7Nd9ys]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRwkL7Nd9ys[/video]

 

[Dave Boyt]

After the 2011 Joplin, MO tornado, a lot of folks bought chain saws to help out. Their hearts were in the right place, but they weren't. One even showed up with a Poulan saw, wearing flip-flops and shorts. Another decided to help me by cutting further up the same tree I was working on. I didn't know he was there until he cut a branch that caused the tree to roll. Those of us wearing boots, chaps & helmets worked together and let the others work it out on their own. Those root balls can stand back up in a hurry!

 

[slowp]

Yes, I mentioned some near misses I've had and was told that I obviously should not be cutting by the "expert". The most memorable one was misjudging where the compression was and getting the Twinkle saw knocked over my head and I landed on my butt. I had to sit a bit until the fear calmed down.
If I was a smoker, it would have been time to have a couple.

I'll travel over and see if any more has been posted.

 

[Gologit]

Yes, I mentioned some near misses I've had and was told that I obviously should not be cutting by the "expert". The most memorable one was misjudging where the compression was and getting the Twinkle saw knocked over my head and I landed on my butt. I had to sit a bit until the fear calmed down.
If I was a smoker, it would have been time to have a couple.

I'll travel over and see if any more has been posted.

Can you post a link to that site? Maybe some of us could just amble on over there and help out a little.

 

[slowp]

NWHikers.net - View topic - WTA & PCTA# Work Parties

Be advised, you won't get kicked off but the site is full of easily offended, folks who live in the Seattle area.
Many feel the forests should be untouched, except by roads or trails.

Now, they've cheered as logging was shut down in the woods, but now are upset because the roads are not maintained and are being closed.

It's a difficult forum for me to deal with. I am labeled a brown conservative there. I wish I had the wit of Randymac.

Wastral enters the picture on the second page, I think.

 

[paccity]

will be interesting to see how the bob and randy show will stir them up. but most of them won't be swayed with the blinders they are wearing.