To oil or not oil new cyl and piston

[mowoodchopper]

Brad,

Just a wipe around the skirt bottom to get it wet is all.

The rings and cylinder are bone dry untill they make contact with the skirt.

When buttoned down, the cylinder walls above the rings wil be dry.
Chromed, but dry.

Once the crank is turned on starting, the rings will encounter some oil that was transferred by the skirt, and the incoming charge will contact all surfaces. Total distance travelled while not under load and in contact with naked liner is about zero when ya think about it.

The rings contact surface just needs a whisper of film of oil to keep from burnishing the chrome liner.If ya can see a film, it's too thick.

On the big end bearing, after the thing starts, it is only the incoming vapor lubricating, as any volume of significance will be flung off by centrifugal force.

Good 2 stroke oil is amazing stuff, when ya think about how well it works at so little volume.

I probably swapped out 100 sets of rings, and pistons every 4 races back then, and never had an issue except with some bad factory slugs.

Before the Kawasaki Chrome cylinders, I ran all YZ's with Iron Liners and we did splooge things real well with the old Castrol or golden Spectro.
Had a couple get glazed, and busted rings a couple times.

I ain't a pro builder, but when the Team Green Wrench say's "Do this, this is how we set up Wardy and Goat" that's what I do...did...LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

We used to use the old orig klotz benol, I have thought of running it in my saws but its not good with cold weather I dont think! I agree with you it does not take much oil, a light film is plenty I mean light too!

 

[mowoodchopper]

Team Green and saws 101 aint the same ball game.

loader operator used to race, right along side with pastrana, but he gave it up..

back to the point, MX and saws are not the same and you know why...

I can see dingers point, but still I have to agree saws and bikes are not the same by along ways. The saws are catching up but are still diff than even the 80s bikes, for one the bikes had reed valves then even. But My thing is a saw is made to run along time and runs hot. t The bikes are and were much higher performance and didn't have near the longevity without top end rebuilds , like the saws do.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Yeah it definetly isn't good to assemble the top end dry, but over doing it and you'll have to get the oil back out. Otherwise you'll have a wet spark plug and higher comp readings.

 

[056kid]

2 Cycles are the same.... mostly.

Saws are catching up to the bikes of the early 80's finally.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

ya, when does the water cooled 15 HP 372 come out??

 

[Meadow Beaver]

ya, when does the water cooled 15 HP 372 come out??

Don't you think a water cooled saw would be just a tad bit heavy and high maintenance? :monkey:

 

[mowoodchopper]

ya, when does the water cooled 15 HP 372 come out??

Thats even out dated 056! A kx 80, 80cc was at 15 hp in like 1980, they are over the 20 hp mark now for 80cc, so yes like we both said bikes and saws are a whole diff ball game!

 

[056kid]

Naaa,


Il wear the radiator and fan on ma back, Husqvarna will have created a fluid that is like ice so my back pack cooling system will be obsolete any way.

The reed cage might bulk up the back end though

:greenchainsaw:

 

[056kid]

Too bad that the 2 stroke era is over

 

[dingeryote]

ya, when does the water cooled 15 HP 372 come out??

Maybe your dad was in Diapers back then, but MX bikes were air cooled once upon a time, and some even had disc valves instead of reeds.

Didn't chainsaws have reeds not so long ago?
No wait...:monkey:

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[046]

white lithium grease on all bearing surfaces for me... then a light film of grease on piston and rings.

don't know if that's right or wrong, but seems to work fine. have always been taught those first few revolutions are when lube is needed the most... before oil has a chance to reach bearings.

some folks break in rings by running them full bore from the get go. for auto's synthetic oils were not recommended during break-in periods. and so on...

seems there's as many ways to build motors as there are builders...

 

[056kid]

Maybe your dad was in Diapers back then, but MX bikes were air cooled once upon a time, and some even had disc valves instead of reeds.



Stay safe!
Dingeryote

My dad was done with diapers when Indians where just getting old hahahah.

Indeed saws where outfitted with reeds n the near past, I own several.



but I am talking about a 372...

 

[dingeryote]

Too bad that the 2 stroke era is over

NEVER!!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Gregford]

If you dont know the benefits of pre assembly lube, I shouldn't even try to explain. First of all the hardest thing on any engine is a dry start, a chainsaw if your using good oil stays coated inside with oil. And yes even at 50;1 if run a oil like klotz and tear it apart it will be coated in a oil film. So the only time you would encounter a completely dry start would be if you put it together with no oil. A nice coating of oil does not in any way hinder ring seating , as soon as you run it , the oil is gone and the mix is lubing the saw. The pre assembly oil does however stop unnecessary wear and scratching of new not seated rings! As soon as you run the saw the rings start seating and its a non issue but that first few seconds is where the assembly lube counts and that's why MOST people WILL AGREE you need it.

I personally prefer to, and do, pre-oil bores, pistons and rings with 2-stroke mix before assembly. BUT I once had a very badly maintained example of a BMW R100RS which I lovingly reconditioned and pre-oiled the bores, pistons and rings. That old dog was still using oil 2000 miles later and I got fed up with it after a second disassemble to find the trouble. I never did. The BMW guys told me to assemble those motors dry, just like Subaru car motors, otherwise they'll take about 3000 miles to run in. Now those bores were beautiful, not worn at all, no scores, just the hone marks. The pistons were also great. I still wonder if there was something wrong with that engine, or whether the fault was mine for oiling the bores. Another BMW owner I talked to said not to oil the bores but I still can't bring myself to let a piston run dry.

 

[Justsaws]

The general rule of thumb should be to not stick things in the cylinder that would not normally be in the engines. Kind of like the hammer rule.

No grease. No straight oil. You want lube something squirt some mix around, sparingly.

That being said, I have used a hammer lots of times, straight oil on bearings and a tiny amount of grease on rollers with no catastrophic failures.

Lightly lube bearings with mix and put a little mix in the plug hole before pulling it over a few times to make sure everything is good. Install muffler and start saw.

How many of you clean you new cylinders out with mix before installing them?

How many of you clean off new pistons?

Check new rings for burs and clean them off before installing?

Clean and rinse bearings?

Lube seals and o-rings?

Trim gaskets after intial fittings?

Chainsaws are incredibly forgiving engines.

 

[tdi-rick]

[snip]

How many of you clean you new cylinders out with mix before installing them?

How many of you clean off new pistons?

Check new rings for burs and clean them off before installing?

Clean and rinse bearings?

Lube seals and o-rings?

Trim gaskets after intial fittings?

Chainsaws are incredibly forgiving engines.

Hand goes in air.

Actually, I scrub the cylinder in warm water/washing powder solution, and the piston gets it too, just like a real engine.

OCD ? maybe :monkey:

 

[Justsaws]

OCD ? maybe :monkey:

Nothing wrong with a little OCD. OCD is like lubrication, a little bit goes a long way.

I am going to wash my hands now. There might be a hole in the nitrile gloves I wear when surfing the Web. Can't be to careful around the Web, could get a virus.

Also I think I am supposed to tell you that if you used sharper chains the cylinders would not get so dusty.:hmm3grin2orange: Maybe smear a little grease around the edges.:smoking:

Hmmm, I'm off to smoke. Smoke break. Smiley made me do it.

 

[Guarddog1]

My motto was and always will be the wetter the better in every instance. I always lube the piston rings bearings everything very well with 2 stroke oil to much oil will not hurt but to little is a whole different ball game. And I am not willing to find out were that line is. Even car engines I practically dip the pistons in the oil I will be using in it.

 

[Steve K]

LOL.. I read this entire thread and I want my 15 minutes back.

I think there was only one comment about what a manufacturer like Stihl says about lubing the piston and rings in their repair manuals. Stihl says to "Lubricate piston and rings with oil". So the only oil that goes in saw is mix and that's what I use, seems only logical to follow the manufacturers directions to all service techs.

 

[The Lorax]

I just saturate a small piece of paper towel in the 2T oil that I use(full syn)
wipe the bore and skirt of the piston with the piece of towel and assemble.
That said I do give the big and small end bearings a good squirt of oil before I slip the piston into the bore.
Running a dry piston in a saw just seems wrong to me regardless of what MX builders say to do.
MX Techs also get unlimited amounts of parts in the course of their work, unlike me having to get my P+C from the saw dealers.
Having a Works parts budget might change my mind but for now I'll keep it lubed thanks very much

 

[tdi-rick]

Too bad that the 2 stroke era is over

NEVER!!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

Read this boys http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/two-strokes-strike-back/