To oil or not oil new cyl and piston

[edisto]

oxidation and combustion are not the same thing, you should read up a bit on redox.

Redox, as i have been taugh, is essentially the opposite of oxidation, where an reduction oxidant gives up electrons to another molecule, where oxidation is when an oxident (o2) takes electrons from another molecule, there for oxidizing it.

Not all oxidation reactions are combustion, but all combustion is a redox reaction. That's why combustion requires oxygen.

Redox is short for reduction-oxidation reactions. Wherever there is oxidation, there is reduction...you can't have one without the other, and so the term applies to the enitre reaction. The oxidizing agent is reduced (which paradoxically means it picks up electrons), and the reducing agent is oxidized (gives up electrons).

Regaurdless, i do agree with you that too much oil above the rings is not a good thing, and can lead to heavy deposits on the cyl, but dissagree that the best way to put a new piston in is dry, or oiled skirt down, to each their own, thanks for the conversation and rep coming your way for reading my rambling on and on. And for the good conversation.

I wouldn't put a piston in dry either...but I also think you can have too much oil on the cylinder.

It's nice to disagree without being disagreeable, and I do appreciate the conversation as well, but I'd recommend you take your own advice and read a little instead of digging through the dusty attic of your mind for remnants of a long forgotten chemistry class and assuming that those tattered fragments are facts.

And I offer my apologies to the rest of AS...the only thing worse than reading about chemistry is reading an argument about chemistry.

 

[mowoodchopper]

Not all oxidation reactions are combustion, but all combustion is a redox reaction. That's why combustion requires oxygen.

Redox is short for reduction-oxidation reactions. Wherever there is oxidation, there is reduction...you can't have one without the other, and so the term applies to the enitre reaction. The oxidizing agent is reduced (which paradoxically means it picks up electrons), and the reducing agent is oxidized (gives up electrons).



I wouldn't put a piston in dry either...but I also think you can have too much oil on the cylinder.

It's nice to disagree without being disagreeable, and I do appreciate the conversation as well, but I'd recommend you take your own advice and read a little instead of digging through the dusty attic of your mind for remnants of a long forgotten chemistry class and assuming that those tattered fragments are facts.

And I offer my apologies to the rest of AS...the only thing worse than reading about chemistry is reading an argument about chemistry.

LMAO Whatever!!!!!!!!!

 

[tdi-rick]

From my POV its been a good discussion all round.

Tzeds' original post gave me some pause for thought and I've appreciated everyone's input, and there's been some good humour too.

I'm just trying to ignore Wigg's oil Q

 

[Justsaws]

Stihls are run and tuned at the factory...

Waiting patiently for Thall to report on assembly procedure. Hoping that they are hand rubbed by Virgins with Extra Virgin Olive Oil. Fearing that they are spritzed by a mechanical machine called Helmut using a Matrix like feeding tube.

Do all brands test run every saw that they produce? If so, for how long and using what fuel?

 

[Justsaws]

I thought they packed them in cosmoline for storage?

No, the Cosmo-line is for starting fires and plugging mufflers.

 

[maico490]

Oh well another another oil thread picks itself up with bag over shoulder and slowly disappears into the setting sun on the horizon. Everyone else is left sitting around the camp fire all agreeing to disagree while the embers die down. A full moon is rising in a cloudless sky with the tiny pinpricks of stars already visible. Everything in the world seems just fine again.
Group hug anyone?

 

[tdi-rick]

Oh well another another oil thread picks itself up with bag over shoulder and slowly disappears into the setting sun on the horizon. Everyone else is left sitting around the camp fire all agreeing to disagree while the embers die down. A full moon is rising in a cloudless sky with the tiny pinpricks of stars already visible. Everything in the world seems just fine again.
Group hug anyone?

We can't hug yet, we have to hold hands and sing Kumbaya first.....


















:monkey:

 

[AUSSIE1]

Nope....nope.....Sorry JS, but this just could not be.
If there was a possibility, we would all be working there and how long would the Virgins stay Virgins with their hands all oiled up?

 

[056kid]

Someone do it the oiley way, and someone do it the dry way.

then we can find the proof in the pudding. . .

 

[Tzed250]

Someone do it the oiley way, and someone do it the dry way.

then we can find the proof in the pudding. . .

My proof exists right now. I have been putting two-stroke top-ends together with only a small amount of oil on the lower skirt since 1992. Saws, dirt bikes, roadracers, brushcutters, blowers, etc. They have all performed perfectly.

All the proof I need....

 

[Paul001]

My proof exists right now. I have been putting two-stroke top-ends together with only a small amount of oil on the lower skirt since 1992. Saws, dirt bikes, roadracers, brushcutters, blowers, etc. They have all performed perfectly.

All the proof I need....

And other like me have been putting oil on the cylinder/piston for years without issue.

If you've found something that works for you, use it!

For me a light coating of oil just "feels" better and it's what Stihl recommends.

 

[Tzed250]

And other like me have been putting oil on the cylinder/piston for years without issue.

If you've found something that works for you, use it!

For me a light coating of oil just "feels" better and it's what Stihl recommends.

But my results indicate that the oil does not have to be there...

 

[dragrcr]

we can all go on and on about this for months, or we can sum it all up like this i think.

If you feel comfortable just oiling the skirk of the piston than do that, if it makes you feel better to use a very light layer of oil on the piston and cyl, than do that, both meathods used proplery will net the same results, and boh ways with too much oil could cause more problems.

 

[Paul001]

But my results indicate that the oil does not have to be there...

Yeah I know...thats why I said it just "feels" right

 

[edisto]

If you feel comfortable just oiling the skirk of the piston than do that, if it makes you feel better to use a very light layer of oil on the piston and cyl, than do that, both meathods used proplery will net the same results, and boh ways with too much oil could cause more problems.

The reason these arguments persist is because people tend to want to think in absolutes. If you are going to modify an engine, there are no absolutes...only tradeoffs. You always have to rob Peter if you want to pay Paul.

If you want more high-end power, it will come at the cost of the mid range, and vice versa.

Increasing compression increases the temperature of the combustion chamber and piston, which increases crankcase temps, and decreases charge density. At some point compression can be so high that power is lost because charge density is too low. Decrease compression enough, and power will drop again as well.

There are no magic bullets, and more is not always better.

This thread is not a disagreement over what is right or wrong, it is about which side of the tradeoff people prefer to be on.

Too much lubrication will reduce the effectiveness of ring seating. Period. The less lube you have, the better the break in, <i>up until the point where lubrication fails</i>.

Some prefer to err on the side of caution, and use extra lube during assembly. Nothing wrong with that. Others don't mind walking a little closer to the razors edge to get that extra 2-5% from a good ring seat. Nothing wrong with that either.

If you understand the tradeoff, then you can decide which of the 2 factors is more important to you, and put your efforts in that direction.

 

[bwalker]

IMO TZ isnt wrong and a lot of top level two stroke builders do this.
I have always oiled everything with a light coating of oil, including the wrist pin, piston pin bearing rings, etc.
And after a few heat cycles I dont baby the thing during break in. In fact I try to load the motor as much as possible so the rings have been completely seated.

 

[mowoodchopper]

Too much lubrication will reduce the effectiveness of ring seating. Period. The less lube you have, the better the break in, <i>up until the point where lubrication fails</i>.


LOL So what your saying is what MOST of us agreed on the first day! You know a VERY LIGHT coat of oil is the best and safest method. Its funny it took a week for you to agree !!! LMAO

 

[Kwdog75]

Couldn't be bothered to read the other posts but i usually put some two stroke oil in the cylinder and let it sit in there till the morning and then start it up, got lots of smoke but at least it wasn't a dry start.

 

[edisto]

So what your saying is what MOST of us agreed on the first day! You know a VERY LIGHT coat of oil is the best and safest method. Its funny it took a week for you to agree !!! LMAO

Yup...you were real agreeable.

I just can't figure out how not being able to read doesn't prevent you from posting.

Maybe a severed corpus callosum?

 

[dragrcr]

Yup...you were real agreeable.

I just can't figure out how not being able to read doesn't prevent you from posting.

Maybe a severed corpus callosum?

ohhhh boy.

and KWdog, i strongly recomend you dont do that any more, if there is "alot" of smoke you used too much, wich like anything good, too much is a bad thing.