To oil or not oil new cyl and piston

[litefoot]

Here's my technical explanation for why I apply a light coat of oil to the cylinder and piston....

Top ends are expensive...lubing them before assembly makes me feel better. Any other questions?

 

[CHEVYTOWN13]

Flying Freckles was a stout rider. But the hurricane always had everyone beat.

CTOWN walks onto the stage in front of the AS SALOON FOLK. Smokey as hell and some pist of hombres...

3rd place Funny Rep award goes to Slick Rick for his comment, "raises his hand." Some cheers and cursing...

2nd place goes to the hometown that said "I want my 15¢ back." (sorry, had a long day and have other threads to reply to.)

I hear yays and nays from the AS SALOON.

1st place Funny rep award goes to MoChop. Cuz he chopped the field with his comment about the glazed D.

Cheers and Jeers from the crowd...

OK, CTOWN takes a sigh and says..."MVP goes to...



















































AUSSIE1!!! because that's exactly what I do. And as far as what happens, it's run what you brung and believe in your saw I guess. I figure it's this way.

The Dictator, aka compression, tells his student aka the ring, to take a seat once the 1st and subsequent throttle blips occur on the 1st Ignition of a built /modified saw. He tells the student, THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOING. to show the student that he has to take a seat NOW. The student understands that he has to take a seat. Now his job is to hold back the blow with the help of the oil in the mix?? Just my 2 pesos man, because if we were all to look at a cylinder under a micro, we'd all have a SHI:censored:. What takes up that micro void??

Kinda like this:
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i701.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid701.photobucket.com/albums/ww11/CHEVYTOWN/VIDS/Area51-5.flv">

BTW, stay tuned for some cuts tomorrow on this channel

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=108604

AS SALOON starts to throw some jugs CT's way and Chevy throws a Rambo off the cliff behind the curton and out the door just in time for me old bud Slinger to hand me the reigns to me horse. I'll be back tomorrow Slinger with the goods...CT rides off into the dark night...

 

[dragrcr]

what say you?

 

[CHEVYTOWN13]

You're dragging bro...don't be a cheap party.

Just poking fun at this thread drags:greenchainsaw:

These 3 guys cracked me up hard core reading this super long thread about I don't know what. Everyone is making valid points. One thing though, throw out the 4 stroke stuff. We're talking two strokes. That just complicates things and starts the verga match.

I don't think anyone here is wrong. I put back my saws very similar to the way that Aussie1 does. I've never had a problem doing so. As the same for the guys that go dry up top. It's the preference you choose and stick with if you believe in it.

That saw in that video will see some wood. But yesterday was the 1st time I fired it up after the no gasket mod. Yesterday, as I primed the carb 3 times, the pulling was weak, as expected. I pulled on it tonight and there is much more resistance now after that start up when pulling which means the ring has begun to sit. I dunno, just what I have taken in with my saws.

 

[tdi-rick]

Rickster, you made me laugh long and loud with that post, shame I'm out of rep bullets and whatever juice you're sucking on, pass it round hombre, it looks the goods from where I'm sitting

 

[AUSSIE1]

Rickster, you made me laugh long and loud with that post, shame I'm out of rep bullets and whatever juice you're sucking on, pass it round hombre, it looks the goods from where I'm sitting

Yeah I'm outta slugs too lol.

So do I get to kiss the dancin girls, maybe a little squeeze?

Lets party!

Good one Rick.

 

[belgian]

.... and EVERY school, EVERY training program, and EVERY engine builder i know uses a light coat of oil on everything that touches metal to metal, 2 or 4 stroke its all the same.

Pretty simple, anything metal that rides on anything else that is metal needs lubrication, what happens if you pull that unlubed saw 100 times before it fires because something isnt right, or a fuel line is off ect...

in a race situation at a dirtbike track, where you need instant power and have no time to properly seat a set of rings, and you will be changing them after a race, i can see going light on the oil, but anything where longevity is concerned, ass long as you dont put soo much oil that the engine is burning it along the fuel, you are doing good.

pretty much bottom line essentials, if you ask me

Light coat of 2 stroke oil for me please. :agree2:

 

[wigglesworth]

Im convinced the oil helps. So, which oil should I use?

 

[edisto]

Oil oxidation is a result of moisture, metal particals and o2 in the oil, although heat can speed this process up, it is not a factor when talking about break-in.

Oil oxidation is the reaction of the hydrocarbons in oil with oxygen (or other oxidants), adding oxygen to these hydrocarbons to form carboxylic acids, ketones, aldehydes, etc. These molecules can polymerize to form deposits.

Heat doesn't just "speed the process up", it increases the rate exponentially. The rate of oxidation doubles for every 10 degree (Celsius) increase above 75 degrees.

What you are talking about is when you have an excessive amount of oil, above the rings, and the oil reaches its flash point, and burns leaving deposits, or when the oil on the cylinder is heated to the point of break down, when it looses its viscocity, and lubricating properties, then the oil will burn onto the cylinder, essentialy eliminating the contact between the rings and cyl.

Ummm...if by "burning" you mean combustion, then we are talking about oxidation. That's what combustion essentially is, and although there are other complex things occurring, the deposits that form on the cylinder as the result of the combustion process are the results of oxidation of the hydrocarbons in the oil.

 

[dragrcr]

well, oxidation literally describs the process of losing electrons in a molecule.
it will not occur if ther are no metal particals in the oil. im proad that you can read a website, but you dont understand what you wrote.

I dont want to sit here and argue back and forth, i know what i am talking about and you apparently know what you are talking about, and we dissagree. so with that said, you build it your way, and i will do it my way, the way i have come to do it for a long time.

and CT. a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke ring do the same thing, the same way, there are no differences in how the ring works. the oil ring is only on a 4 stroke because there is raw oil in the crankcase

 

[dingeryote]

Im convinced the oil helps. So, which oil should I use?

OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!!!





Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[CHEVYTOWN13]

Rick and AL, I couldn't rep you guys

But I'm not kidding tocayo, you started the monster laughs with your comment about raising your hand. Too dang fuuuuunny.

Dragrcr, I understand bro, but why mention a 4 stroke? We're talking 2 strokes. It just happens to get people more wound up.

 

[edisto]

well, oxidation literally describs the process of losing electrons in a molecule.
it will not occur if ther are no metal particals in the oil. im proad that you can read a website, but you dont understand what you wrote.

Burning, i.e., combustion, of oil is a process of oxidation.

I'll admit that I barely made it through organic chemistry, but redox reactions are pretty straight forward. It's not a matter of careless molecules losing electrons, they lose them to oxidizing agents, in this case oxygen. Having a metal is not a necessity, although certain types of metals can presumably act as catalysts for the reaction.

Is your implication that oxidation of the hydrocarbons in oil is too unlikely to occur without a catalyst? That's just not the case when you are dealing with the operating temperatures seen in an engine. Heat oil in a glass container, and you will get oxidation. You can burn methane or ethanol in a glass container, or just light a candle...no metal particles necessary.

 

[Justsaws]

Im convinced the oil helps. So, which oil should I use?

If you are going to use a straight oil than use the oil that you would use when making your mix. Use it sparingly. Put it on a rag and wipe the parts down.

After cleaning the parts with mix am I not sure why it then becomes necessary to coat the parts with more lubricant then they will ever have on them again.

Entertaining reading though.

 

[AUSSIE1]

If anyone has pulled apart a healthy used saw, you can see the quantity of oil present as an indication.

 

[Justsaws]

If anyone has pulled apart a healthy used saw, you can see the quantity of oil present as an indication.

Now you are being silly. How do you expect to keep a multi-page thread going with answers like that. Next thing you know you will suggest that someone could tear down some NIB saws, of course then we would be debating whether what was done at the factory was for start up or for shipping and storage protection.

 

[Tzed250]

Now you are being silly. How do you expect to keep a multi-page thread going with answers like that. Next thing you know you will suggest that someone could tear down some NIB saws, of course then we would be debating whether what was done at the factory was for start up or for shipping and storage protection.

Stihls are run and tuned at the factory...

 

[edisto]

Next thing you know you will suggest that someone could tear down some NIB saws, of course then we would be debating whether what was done at the factory was for start up or for shipping and storage protection.

I thought they packed them in cosmoline for storage?

 

[AUSSIE1]

Now you are being silly. How do you expect to keep a multi-page thread going with answers like that. Next thing you know you will suggest that someone could tear down some NIB saws, of course then we would be debating whether what was done at the factory was for start up or for shipping and storage protection.

Sorry JS, I'll behave.
Sheesh, that's twice this mornin I said I'd behave lol.

 

[dragrcr]

Burning, i.e., combustion, of oil is a process of oxidation.

I'll admit that I barely made it through organic chemistry, but redox reactions are pretty straight forward. It's not a matter of careless molecules losing electrons, they lose them to oxidizing agents, in this case oxygen. Having a metal is not a necessity, although certain types of metals can presumably act as catalysts for the reaction.

Is your implication that oxidation of the hydrocarbons in oil is too unlikely to occur without a catalyst? That's just not the case when you are dealing with the operating temperatures seen in an engine. Heat oil in a glass container, and you will get oxidation. You can burn methane or ethanol in a glass container, or just light a candle...no metal particles necessary.

oxidation and combustion are not the same thing, you should read up a bit on redox.

Redox, as i have been taugh, is essentially the opposite of oxidation, where an reduction oxidant gives up electrons to another molecule, where oxidation is when an oxident (o2) takes electrons from another molecule, there for oxidizing it.

regaurdless, i do agree with you that too much oil above the rings is not a good thing, and can lead to heavy deposits on the cyl, but dissagree that the best way to put a new piston in is dry, or oiled skirt down, to each their own, thanks for the conversation and rep coming your way for reading my rambling on and on. And for the good conversation.