Tom Dunlap, B.C.Hydro, spurs to trim

[clearance]

Was surfin around on the web and came across another site (cannot mention due to rules) where Tom was talking about electrical safety. He had got this information from B.C. Hydro directly from thier website, it is callled seven steps to electrical safety. Very good of Tom to help people learn not to burn. I have beefed with Tom here about a few things (lowering wood, trimming with spurs) but putting respect where it is due, Tom has probably forgotten more about trees than I'll ever know. In all these discussions about doing line clearance while always wearing spurs I have asked people who have a problem with that to contact B.C.Hydro. No one has, I won't because I always use spurs but ISA certified people work at B.C.Hydro, all the vegetation managers (guys that control utility treework) are ISA certified. I have never had one of them say anything to me as I spurred away in front of them, dozens of times. Someone on this site who is ISA certified should get an explanation of why it is acceptable (to B.C.Hydro) to trim with spurs. Quit talking about it with a hack like me (worker) and go to the top, or does everyone in the ISA not care about this "black eye" on your organization?

 

[treeseer]

Someone on this site who is ISA certified should get an explanation of why it is acceptable (to B.C.Hydro) to trim with spurs. Quit talking about it with a hack like me (worker) and go to the top,

But clearance, talking with you is such fun! O and thanks for giving tom his props.

Different people take part in writing the Standards and BMP's. There's a separate set for utility, and separate rules in there for working in the bush.

They use mechanical pruning that misses the collar in the bush too. No black eyes on me resulting from that or your spurring in the bush. Just take them off when you come to town, like checking in your guns in the sheriff's office when you come to town. Different strokes for different folks, and so on and so on and scooby dooby dooby, ooooooo sha sha, we got to live together:

Sometimes I'm right and I can be wrong
My own beliefs are in my song
The butcher, the banker, the drummer and then
Makes no difference what group I'm in
I am everyday people, yeah yeah
There is a blue one who can't accept the green one
For living with a fat one trying to be a skinny one
And different strokes for different folks
And so on and so on and scooby dooby doo-bee
Oh sha sha - we got to live together
I am no better and neither are you
We are the same whatever we do
You love me you hate me you know me and then
You can't figure out the bag l'm in
I am everyday people, yeah yeah
There is a long hair that doesn't like the short hair
For bein' such a rich one that will not help the poor one
And different strokes for different folks
And so on and so on and scooby dooby doo-bee
Oh sha sha-we got to live together
There is a yellow one that won't accept the black one
That won't accept the red one that won't accept the white one
And different strokes for different folks

Sly and the Family Stone, Saturday night at Woodstock. 37 years ago, still true.

 

[vharrison2]

Absolutely, KUDOS to Tom Dunlap. He is an excellent teacher and was gracious enough to come an share his EHAP knowledge with our company. Thanks again, Tom

 

[tophopper]

May I Clearance?



It is known fact that you and I have had beef as well. Just to clarify, I do see the need on occasion for the use of spikes, however Ive always butted heads with you on the subject because youve always made it clear that there is no other way, which simply is not true.

FWIW- Tom knows his stuff. Your just now figuring that out?

Climb safe!!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

on this site who is ISA certified should get an explanation of why it is acceptable (to B.C.Hydro) to trim with spurs.

The ANSI standards allows ROW workers to gaff trees in rural area due to the lower value of the trees "when needed". The caveat is there to recognize the differance in productivity in the average ROW worker and the type of work peing done in ROW vs. aesthetic and PHC driven pruning.

Some differenciate trim from prune to describe an act that is not in the best interest of the tree but in the best interest of property or society. That is if we say trim the tree away from the houes, we do not care as much about the tree as if we said prune the tree away from the house. So with ROW trimming we want the most productive trimming to keep the power flowing.

Where we have a a big problem with ROW work on smaller properties is when the need for productivity does not take into concideration that they are working on real property to which the owner hold long term aesthetic value.

An action that will compromise an individual trees health out in the boonies is not as important as one that happens on a 9000 sqft city property that has 3 mature trees on it.

There is sufficent scientific evidance for us to say that gaffing and indescriminant trimming will most likely compromise the health of a tree in the long term, and that this is poor practice when that tree is highly valued by someone.

 

[clearance]

Every utility guy in B.C. uses spurs all the time, no matter where the tree is, in the bush or downtown. All the time, everywhere, all the time. Like I figured none of you ISA guys will dare question other ISA guys. As long as your in the club, doesn't matter what you do, kinda like Catholic clergy men.

 

[tophopper]

Every utility guy in B.C. uses spurs all the time, no matter where the tree is, in the bush or downtown. All the time, everywhere, all the time. Like I figured none of you ISA guys will dare question other ISA guys. As long as your in the club, doesn't matter what you do, kinda like Catholic clergy men.

Whatever dude, leave it to you to say "Im not responsible for my actions, take it up with my employer"

Integrity..... get some, you need it!!

 

[clearance]

I couldn't care less, it was you and your ISA buddies that are always crying and mewing about trimming with spurs. If you had any integrity you would ask questions of your fellow ISA members, but you won't, care about trees? see them for what they are? Afraid of a B.C. Hydro ISA arborist setting you straight about climbing around power?

 

[tophopper]

Hahaha

you and your ISA buddies

thats a new one! Thanks for the good laugh.

Anyway Im done


by the way

 

[JJackson]

As a utility forester and a member of the ISA I find it interesting that BC Hydro allows it climbres to wear spurs to trim. Is the head of BC Hydro also the President of the Utility Arborist Association? I am sure someone could find things we do wrong in our pruning program but we try and stick to the BMP's and guidlines set down by the various arboriculture associations. I am sure as with any vegetation management you could find things that the utilty could do differently. We only use spurs for removals and emergencies. With all the modern techniques I find it hard to understand why they still use only spurs.

 

[notahacker]

IMO:

I think if a person needs spikes to climb & trim a tree, he/she lacks skill to climb. Perhaps, that person should not be called an arborist?

 

[rebelman]

Bingo.

 

[clearance]

Great, a utility guy, hi Jamie, I appreciate your response. I am a certified utility arborist, utilty arborist is a legitimate, govt. recognized trade, the certification comes from B.C. Hydro.. The reason I made this post is that after having many arguements with people here about spurs no one has ever questioned B.C.Hydro, only attacked me. I no longer work anywhere near powerlines, I windfirm old growth for stream protection, with spurs, of course. Anyways, all the veg. managers at B.C. Hydro are ISA certified, I have no problem at all climbing everything with spurs but whats up with the ISA?. Or more to the point with ISA members (not just Hydro employees) not saying or doing anything to make utilities live up to the guidelines of the ISA.I think it is hypocritical of both (ISA and Hydro) Hydro for wearing ISA logos and representing themselves as such. The ISA for supporting them. My views are known, I want someone who is ISA to ask someone at B.C. Hydro the question "why is it o.k. for every cua to always climb with spurs?" Notahacker-you are right, the term arborist lumps me in with all manner of people, some good, some less than. I like climber or treeman better. I would like to see you climb a 150' red cedar that has no branches for 70' and then those branches it has all droop down, not only that you would have to carry your little boots over all the slash and wear your caulks when you are not in a tree. Spurless climbing is good, just not around power or in the bush.

 

[JJackson]

Clearance, I beleive the red cedar you gave as an example, based on the current standards would allow you to use spurs. I think they use 30 feet (could be wrong) to the lowest limb as the minimun for using spurs to climb a live tree. somebody correct me if I am wrong, the books are back at the office.

 

[rebelman]

I think a better cause would be residential climbers who spike when trimming. After we cut that from eighty percent of the companies, to ten percent, we might go about changing the utilities, not just how they climb, but what they trim.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I think a better cause would be residential climbers who spike when trimming.

Think the market here is under 10% of the for hire people gaffing everything.

Most of those I see that are done that way are city and ROW workers "moonlighting".

 

[clearance]

Tom Dunlap, Treeseer, Tohopper, JPS, JJackson, Notahack, Rebelman -all you guys can do is beak off about spurs, none of you (and anyone else that is anti spur that has read this) will question the authority that lets people spur living trees all over B.C.. You guys make me laugh, you talk about trees like they mean something but you wont even attempt to stop something you whine and snivell about constantly. Don't rock the boat, see the trees for what they are, pathetic.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Will you EVER get off your notion that anyone who is ISA Certified is bound to anyone else who is ISA Certified? Get off your rocky top and put down the wide brush. If you have really taken the time to read what I write you would know that I speak to specifics as much as possible. If someone isn't following standards I speak to that specifically. For all we know, any of the people that you claim to be Certified could not be. Where did the ISA hurt you?

IN case you haven't paid attention, I don't paint all line clearance tree trimming as hack work. It might look like bad tree work but it certainly isn't commercial arboriculture. We are related like cousins, not brothers. Two separate and distinct disciplines within arborculture.

If a person were to write to your Hydro folks, who would be the person to question? I've been on BC Hydro's website and I would have no clue who to write to ask about their practices. Writing to the general comment email would get no further than standing on the corner here in Denver and shouting.

Give us a contact within the company so we could take up your challenge.

I jsut thought of something else...what 'rule' are these alleged ISA Certified arbos breaking when they allow everyone in the company to spike trees? It is your responsibility to show me where it says that the ISA is the one to enforce any kind of workplace practice.

Even in the ANSI Z133 there is a huge exception for using spikes to prune trees for line clearance in rural areas. Since the Z only applies to the United States, the discussion is moot.

The whole issue doesn't come down to the ISA that you hate and fear so much. It comes down to whether spikes harm trees. They do and that is proven and accepted. So does smoking but that's allowed. There is research that has shown that harming the corky bark can have an effect on tree health. If our goal is to take the best care of the tree then we're obligated to do anything that we can to keep the tree as healthy as possible. The goal is always to hit the 100th percentile. But Las Vegas wouldn't exist if that was possible.

 

[findingmyway]

Clearance you are a twit!
Get over your self. I was once like you thought the only way to get around the tree's around hydro was to spike them. Fortunatly was lucky to meet a good friend now Matt Follett who show me actual climbing tecunique's, and hey what do you know I don't need spurs much any more for aneything (maby some removals). I do utility work in Ontario and have Verry strict rules. I'm tired of hearing your same crap. Take pride in what you do.

You should pick up a book and find somthing else to talk about, you bore me to death! Over and over and over. I don't know why I put my self through the pain of reading what you post any more. same old ,same old.

In the 60's almost every one spiked everything. It's taking a long time but it has improved a hell of a lot! and I can olnly hope that in the future that people like you are forced to shape up or ship out.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Another point Clearance, this is the Commercial Tree Care and Climbing forum, not utility. Two different games...