took a chainsaw to the face

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It was a Stihl MS200T with the rakers filed down.

I'm sorry for the pain you had to go through and I wish you all the best for the future.

When you say the rakers were filed down....how much are we taking here? 1/2/mm below the point of the teeth?

I've seen guys filing down rakers thinking it will speed up their cutting, its a bad practice.

There is a reason why the manufacturers recommended filing the rakers only a certain amount and no more. It is due to the the massive increase in the risk of kickback.

I take it everyone has seen this famous kickback injury from the New Zealand Health and Safety website?
 
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The contractor doesn't pay WC on sub-contractors, that I know of, but it is his responsibility to make sure he is insured. ...

Let me repeat what I said in my earlier post, put it in bold type, and state it simply so as not to confuse anyone.

HERE IN NEW JERSEY I PAY 22 PERCENT ADDITIONAL PREMIUMS ON ALL PAYMENTS MADE TO SUB-CONTRACTORS WHO HAVE NOT PROVIDED ME WITH A CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE, THAT INDICATES THEY CARRIED WORKMAN'S COMPENSATION INSURANCE DURING THE TIME(S) WORK WAS PERFORMED, BY THE TIME THE AUDITOR ARRIVES FOR WORKMAN'S COMPENSATION AUDIT.

I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT WORKMAN'S COMPENSATION WORKS SIMILARLY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.


Fred
 
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Let me repeat what I said in my earlier post, put it in bold type, and state it simply so as not to confuse anyone.

HERE IN NEW JERSEY I PAY 22 PERCENT ADDITIONAL PREMIUMS ON ALL PAYMENTS MADE TO SUB-CONTRACTORS WHO HAVE NOT PROVIDED ME WITH A CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE, THAT INDICATES THEY CARRIED WORKMAN'S COMPENSATION INSURANCE DURING THE TIME(S) WORK WAS PERFORMED, BY THE TIME THE AUDITOR ARRIVES FOR WORKMAN'S COMPENSATION AUDIT.

I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT WORKMAN'S COMPENSATION WORKS SIMILARLY IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.


Fred

In WI it depends on the policy. Some of my clients do underwriters do not have a problem, some want my fees on payroll. For those that need the payroll accountability, I break out my labor cost at industry standard and the rest is equipment rental.
 
the IRS has come down hard on the contractor - employee thing lately....this is from their site,, hope it helps your case... glad yor doing better..

Independent Contractors vs. Employees

Before you can determine how to treat payments you make for services, you must first know the business relationship that exists between you and the person performing the services. The person performing the services may be -

An independent contractor
A common-law employee
A statutory employee
A statutory nonemployee

In determining whether the person providing service is an employee or an independent contractor, all information that provides evidence of the degree of control and independence must be considered.

It is critical that you, the employer, correctly determine whether the individuals providing services are employees or independent contractors. Generally, you must withhold income taxes, withhold and pay Social Security and Medicare taxes, and pay unemployment tax on wages paid to an employee. You do not generally have to withhold or pay any taxes on payments to independent contractors.

Caution: If you incorrectly classify an employee as an independent contractor, you can be held liable for employment taxes for that worker, plus a penalty.

Who is an Independent Contractor?
A general rule is that you, the payer, have the right to control or direct only the result of the work done by an independent contractor, and not the means and methods of accomplishing the result.

Example: Vera Elm, an electrician, submitted a job estimate to a housing complex for electrical work at $16 per hour for 400 hours. She is to receive $1,280 every 2 weeks for the next 10 weeks. This is not considered payment by the hour. Even if she works more or less than 400 hours to complete the work, Vera Elm will receive $6,400. She also performs additional electrical installations under contracts with other companies, that she obtained through advertisements. Vera is an independent contractor.

How should I report payments made to independent contractors?

You may be required to file information returns to report certain types of payments made to independent contractors during the year. For example, you must file Form 1099-MISC, Miscellaneous Income, to report payments of $600 or more to persons not treated as employees (e.g. independent contractors) for services performed for your trade or business. For details about filing Form 1099 and for information about required electronic or magnetic media filing, refer to information returns.

Who is a Common-Law Employee (Employee)?
Under common-law rules, anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done. This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that you have the right to control the details of how the services are performed.

To determine whether an individual is an employee or independent contractor under the common law, the relationship of the worker and the business must be examined. All evidence of control and independence must be considered. In an employee-independent contractor determination, all information that provides evidence of the degree of control and degree of independence must be considered.

Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories: behavioral control, financial control, and the type of relationship of the parties. Refer to Publication 15-A, Employer's Supplemental Tax Guide for additional information.


Who is an Employee?
A general rule is that anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done.

Example: Donna Lee is a salesperson employed on a full-time basis by Bob Blue, an auto dealer. She works 6 days a week, and is on duty in Bob's showroom on certain assigned days and times. She appraises trade-ins, but her appraisals are subject to the sales manager's approval. Lists of prospective customers belong to the dealer. She has to develop leads and report results to the sales manager. Because of her experience, she requires only minimal assistance in closing and financing sales and in other phases of her work. She is paid a commission and is eligible for prizes and bonuses offered by Bob. Bob also pays the cost of health insurance and group-term life insurance for Donna. Donna is an employee of Bob Blue.

Statutory Employees
If workers are independent contractors under the common law rules, such workers may nevertheless be treated as employees by statute ( statutory employees ) for certain employment tax purposes if they fall within any one of the following four categories and meet the three conditions described under Social security and Medicare taxes , below.

A driver who distributes beverages (other than milk) or meat, vegetable, fruit, or bakery products; or who picks up and delivers laundry or dry cleaning, if the driver is your agent or is paid on commission.
A full-time life insurance sales agent whose principal business activity is selling life insurance or annuity contracts, or both, primarily for one life insurance company.
An individual who works at home on materials or goods that you supply and that must be returned to you or to a person you name, if you also furnish specifications for the work to be done.
A full-time traveling or city salesperson who works on your behalf and turns in orders to you from wholesalers, retailers, contractors, or operators of hotels, restaurants, or other similar establishments. The goods sold must be merchandise for resale or supplies for use in the buyer s business operation. The work performed for you must be the salesperson s principal business activity. Refer to the Salesperson section located in Publication 15-A, Employer s Supplemental Tax Guide for additional information.
Statutory Nonemployees
There are two categories of statutory nonemployees: direct sellers and licensed real estate agents. They are treated as self-employed for all Federal tax purposes, including income and employment taxes, if:

Substantially all payments for their services as direct sellers or real estate agents are directly related to sales or other output, rather than to the number of hours worked and
Their services are performed under a written contract providing that they will not be treated as employees for Federal tax purposes.
Refer to information on Direct Sellers located in Publication 15-A, Employer s Supplemental Tax Guide for additional information.

Misclassification of Employees

Consequences of treating an employee as an independent contractor. If you classify an employee as an independent contractor and you have no reasonable basis for doing so, you may be held liable for employment taxes for that worker. See Internal Revenue Code section 3509 for additional information.

References/Related Topics

Worker Classification Webcast
A critical issue for all businesses is properly classifying workers as employees or independent contractors. The IRS’s archived Tax Talk Today Webcast, “What’s Hot in Employment Taxes: Independent Contractor or Employee?”, focuses exclusively on worker classification issues.
Tax Topic 762 Basic Information
To determine whether a worker is an independent contractor or an employee, you must examine the relationship between the worker and the business. All evidence of control and independence in this relationship should be considered. The facts that provide this evidence fall into three categories Behavioral Control, Financial Control, and the Type of Relationship itself.
Publication 1976, Section 530 Employment Tax Relief Requirements (PDF)
Section 530 provides businesses with relief from Federal employment tax obligations if certain requirements are met.
IRS Internal Training: Employee/Independent Contractor (PDF)
This manual provides you with the tools to make correct determinations of worker classifications. It discusses facts that may indicate the existence of an independent contractor or an employer-employee relationship. This training manual is a guide and is not legally binding. If you would like the IRS to make the determination of worker status, please file IRS Form SS-8.
Form SS-8 (PDF)
Determination of Worker Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding
Publication 15-A
The Employer's Supplemental Tax Guide has detailed guidance including information for specific industries.
Publication 15-B
The Employer’s Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits supplements Circular E (Pub. 15), Employer's Tax Guide, and Publication 15-A, Employer's Supplemental Tax Guide. It contains specialized and detailed information on the employment tax treatment of fringe benefits.
Businesses with Employees
Hiring Employees
Online Classroom, Lesson 6 - What you need to know about federal taxes when hiring employees/contractors
Distinguishing Between Self-Employed Individuals and Independent Contractors
 
Gruesome!!!! I caught one to the chest and neck but it barely scratched me. It scared the hell out of me and I wasn't 15ft off the ground. You are one hard SOB. I wish you the best and hope you get to feeling better.
 
man that took saw to your face

1st want to say thank god you are alive and i know things seem bad but could have been worse.I appreciate you posting your story.I own my own business and try to be extremely careful.I have had some small cuts to my leg and I cut my forearm on meaty side with chain saw got 35 stiches happened so fast.I was standing in tree maybe 20 feet tall standing in crotch.Home owner was maybe 10 feet from me watching so i think i was trying to get it done and was distracted.He had pavers big deal i should have let the branch fall or tied it off.Instead of using 2 hands on saw as i was cutting i was cutting with one hand and other hand i was going to catch branch. It was maybe 3" diameter.I had saw gunning and it was cutting and caught and forced saw into my arm.I had to pay out of pocket.Plastic surgeon wanted 3900.I told nurse for 30 minutes i thought 2500 was more reasonalbe so she talked to doctor and i payed 100 month till it was done.Getting back to gentleman with cut face.Hope things get better for you.This can happen to any one of us.God speed
 
Just want to say i feel horible for what you must be going through I truly hope everything will work out And i also wanted to add that i am glad that you added pics makes realize just how quick something like that can happen . I am just a firewood cutter but your pics and story makes me think a whole lot clearer now of just how dangerous a chainsaw can be . Thanks for sharing and i wish you the best of luck
 
Monkeyman, I hope you are able to put your life back in order after such a terrible accident and subsequent ordeal. You do need a competent attorney who practices Workman's Compensation law.



Working "under the table" does not change the fact that you were actually working for your this guy when the accident occurred. Whether you were working as an employee or as a sub-contractor is irrelevant, you should be entitled to Workman's Compensation coverage.

I can only state what I know to be true about Workman's Compensation Insurance in New Jersey. However, I can assume that WC works similarly in New York.
* New Jersey law requires employers to carry WC insurance.
* I am required to pay additional premiums on any sub-contractor who fails to produce proof of carrying WC insurance himself (a certificate of insurance) by the time of my insurance policy audit.

As a sub-contractor It doesn't matter how he pays you, (cash or check) he is required to report those payments to his WC auditor. Therefore, in New Jersey at least, you should be entitled to WC coverage because additional premiums were paid on the amount paid to you.

Best Wishes, Fred.


It is the same in NY. I had a case where I paid for a railing to be installed on a job we were doing. Check was made out to a company name, but the company name was the same as the person only add welding afterwards. ie: Bill Smith Welding. WC tried to charge me for him on my WC policy. I had to fight like hell to keep it off.

However, though they penilize you for not reporting a worker, dose'nt mean they will pay for him if he is injured. Kind of a loophole for them.

The contractor doesn't pay WC on sub-contractors, that I know of, but it is his responsibility to make sure he is insured. Just like it's the homeowner's responsibility to make sure the contractor is insured.
WC is so important.


Sorry to hear of your accident and hope for the best to you and your family during your recovery.


A point I didn't think of, maybe you neither. If your boss wasn't covering you like he should have been and you didn't have WC, the homeowner is responsible. A good Attorney will pick up on that. If you don't have one, where are you located?
 
Yes, I agree. Working without Workers Comp is a big gamble. And I also know that WC will penalize you if you don't collect the certificates of the subs, but I don't know and therefore can not say whether or not that policy's main benefit to a GC is that he himself can not get sued by the worker or sub. However, I do know as a FACT that at least here in NY. A Homeowner should always require a WC policy and depending on the length of work, be added to the policy so that if the policy holder lets it default, the owner gets notice. As a Sub, I have always had to add my CG as additional insured until the project was complete. Same with the towns. The Main Reason for this is so they can not get sued.

If someone is injured on my property, They can sue me whether I invited them there or not. So yes, this guy can sue the Homeowner and the GC (his boss). He should sue everyone he can. I am not sure if the court proceeding he already had was for Workers Comp or a Liability Lawsuit against the employer.

Honestly, and this is why I asked HOW LONG AGO this happened, it will take years for this to get into court. WC on the other hand likes to have a hearing and denies the claims ASAP.

I guess we need more info, but what he needs is a Good Attorney representing him. All of our advice is for naught without one.

If anyone feels like learning from others mistakes, and I think that is the purpose of this thread, that it should be Not to Operate without a WC policy. Also, as others have posted, there is a fine line between a Sub Contractor and an Employee. The Tax Man loves this line, it will be more difficult to determine the line in a court of law though. The best way to determine a Sub vs Employee...a WC Policy given to you by the sub with you added as additional insured. If you don't have this, then put them on your policy.
 
***FYI *** I meet this fellow last month and I do know of the contractor that he was working for.This contractor is the biggest loser in the area in the tree buisness .HE IS NO GOOD .He doesn't pay the workes and screws old people by having them sign contracts .He gets people to pay for the work to be done before it is even done and will not come back till next year....total B.S............:censored:
 
Happy Holidays everyone.

Thanks for all the kind words. I hope that this will help everyone realize just how dangerous this kind of work is. We don't just sit at a desk crossing t's and dotting i's.
I did get denied for WC. That really sucks. I am appealing it. I don't care what anyone says, both myself and the gentleman I was working for know that I was his employee. I just started my own business 6 months before. I didn't have enough work to quit. I worked for him FULL TIME during the week. I did my own on the weekends. I was not allowed to bring my truck or car to the job because I had my signs on them. I was not allowed to hand out my business cards. If I was a sub, wouldn't I be able to do that. If I was a sub I would also have been making A HELL of alot more than he was paying me. Yes he was paying me under the table and that was stupid of me. I know that. But we all make mistakes. This was a guy that I had worked for for many years. I knew how slimy he was, but we all at one time or another think nothing is going to happen.
I just want him to man up. Tell the truth already. Be a man of his word. Is that too much to ask? I know this isn't a black and white case, but if he would be honest than everyone would know the truth..
And thank you to jmcguiretree for saying what I couldn't about him.
 
monkeymanjoe

Thanks for all the kind words. I hope that this will help everyone realize just how dangerous this kind of work is. We don't just sit at a desk crossing t's and dotting i's.
I did get denied for WC. That really sucks. I am appealing it. I don't care what anyone says, both myself and the gentleman I was working for know that I was his employee. I just started my own business 6 months before. I didn't have enough work to quit. I worked for him FULL TIME during the week. I did my own on the weekends. I was not allowed to bring my truck or car to the job because I had my signs on them. I was not allowed to hand out my business cards. If I was a sub, wouldn't I be able to do that. If I was a sub I would also have been making A HELL of alot more than he was paying me. Yes he was paying me under the table and that was stupid of me. I know that. But we all make mistakes. This was a guy that I had worked for for many years. I knew how slimy he was, but we all at one time or another think nothing is going to happen.
I just want him to man up. Tell the truth already. Be a man of his word. Is that too much to ask? I know this isn't a black and white case, but if he would be honest than everyone would know the truth..
And thank you to jmcguiretree for saying what I couldn't about him.

Just wanted to say just keep what your doing looking forward,in time I think your life will start to take shape the way you want it to.Some times the hardest times in your life make you the strongest after.I hope you stay in the business or find something you like to do and you will do well in.Thanks for your inspiration.Terence
 
Ouch that looks nasty :eek:

Glad you were able to get yourself on the ground before you blacked out. Much worse things could have happened but you survived and lived to tell the story about it.
Glad to see you're back to work on what you like to do and not something you don't like to do.

I worked for my dad's office. He's a dentist that owns his own pratice with at least 4 other dentist working for him...to top it off, my dad does work on patients (mostly big cases) and runs the dental side of the office (lab work, equipment selections, etc) while the office manager deals with patients and insurance side.
A long time ago for 2 summers when I was on summer break from college. He offered me a temp job until I got my license to work on big jets at the airline I work for now.

Used to enter at least 4,000 patients medical files into data such as medical warnings, allergies, health history..etc. There was this one case I came upon to...a patient got almost half of her lower face ripped off by a pit bull and the lower left jaw had to be reconstructed by surgeons (dad was called to the hositpal to assist).
Looking at the x-rays and photos of it, it looked similar to your damage with the roots being exposed on the upper left jaw.
A few years later after plastic surgey and dental work, she's happy to be where she's at now. You couldn't even tell unless you were closer than a few feet to look for the tell-tale sign of damage in that area.
As for the pain, it's very minimal last I heard and she takes asprin once in a while.

Hope you get a speedy recovery and everything will be back to normal and that lowlife boss will pay up as promised. I hate when people pull that type of crap...
 
Monkeymanjoe

Thank you for the detailed account of you accident. It reminds all of us how dangerous working with chainsaws is. After reading your post I went outside to my garage and removed the chain that I was practicing filing on. I got pretty good by the end, but each cutter was a different length. Now that I am confident with my filing abilities I will start with a new chain. The old chain was a liability that could have lead to kick back accident. The chain is in three pieces now, via the cutting torch. I am surprised to say that I am happy my saw in only available with a .325, .050 narrow kerf low kick back chain. If I could get chisel tooth I would be foolish enough to get one. Take care of your recovery and get all of the reconstructive surgery you need. Don’t worry about the cost until your healed. Your providers will help anyone willing to help themselves.
ZG
 
Funny this post was resurrected from almost one year ago.

First time I'd seen it though. I hope it healed up real good. :monkey:
 
how about an update on your status monkeyman. merry x-mas!!
 

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