Toppers

[BCMA]

Tree Topping

by Justine Gartner
photography by Cliff White

Experts agree: It's never a good idea to "top" a tree.


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People don't buy snake oil anymore, and it's no longer popular to bleed patients with leeches, so why do Missourians continue to pay good money to butcher their trees?

Look around your neighborhood, and you'll probably see many examples of a hideous tree trimming practice called "topping," the severe cutting of tree limbs, usually from the top down. This complete removal or cutting back of large branches in mature trees leaves large, open wounds which subject the tree to disease and decay. Topping causes immediate injury to the tree and ultimately results in the tree's early death.

Other names for this malpractice include stubbing, heading, heading-back, stubbing-off, tipping, hatracking, topping-off, dehorning, lopping or roundover. Whatever it's called, topping is the worst thing to do to a tree.

Topping is still widely practiced throughout Missouri. People top trees for many reasons, all of them based on falsehoods and misconceptions. In fact, topping permanently destroys a tree's natural beauty and exposes it to disease and decay.

"Ultimately, a topped tree will cost more to maintain than a properly pruned tree," said Gene Brunk, Missouri Community Forestry Council Vice-Chair and Anti Tree Topping Public Service Campaign Chair.

Don't Top Your Tree

To advocate proper tree management practices, the Missouri Community Forestry Council, in partnership with Forest ReLeaf of Missouri, launched a public service campaign titled, "Experts Agree Don't Top Your Tree." The campaign is designed to educate people about the misconceptions that surround the common practice of tree topping and to offer alternative solutions to tree problems.

The Missouri Community Forestry Council (MCFC) is a grassroots organization composed of individuals interested in community forestry issues in their hometowns. MCFC is composed of nine active regional councils and a statewide council that assists owners' associations in the management of urban and community forests.

"The Missouri Community Forestry Council's purpose in sponsoring this campaign is to educate the public on proper tree care and to dispel many of the misconceptions regarding tree care," said MCFC Chair Bill Reininger. "As the only statewide grassroots community forestry organization in Missouri, MCFC has the desire and technical knowledge to help improve Missouri's urban tree resources. Tree topping is a major problem that needs addressing. We hope our efforts in the long run will help to change people's perceptions and behavior regarding tree care."

Forest ReLeaf of Missouri administers the campaign, providing expertise in media relations, fundraising, grants coordination and overall campaign strategies. Forest ReLeaf maintains the toll-free 877/4-NOTOP telephone hotline. Homeowners can call this number for tree pruning information. The campaign has been so successful that 26 states have inquired about it.

"The campaign has exceeded all expectations, given its impact both in Missouri and throughout much of the United States," said Nancy von Brecht, Forest ReLeaf executive director .

Tree Topping Myths
Myth: Topping a tree will reduce storm damage and make the tree easier to maintain.

Topped trees can regain their original height in as little as two years. The fast growing, extremely long and loosely attached shoots caused by topping will be more susceptible to breakage and storm damage. Ultimately, a topped tree requires more attention in the future than a properly pruned tree.

Myth: Topping invigorates a tree.

Topping immediately injures a tree and starts it on a downward spiral. Topping wounds expose the tree to decay and invasion from insects and disease. Also, the loss of foliage starves the tree, which weakens the roots, reducing the tree's structural strength. While a tree may survive topping, its life will be significantly reduced.

Myth: Topped trees will add value to your property.

Topped trees are ugly and may reduce your property values. Also a topped tree can become hazardous and cause property damage, making it a liability.

Myth: Topping is the best way to keep a tree from getting too big.

A tree's genetics and environment determine how tall it will grow. Topping just shortens the life of the tree and creates long term maintenance problems.

Topping vs. Tree Pruning

A topped tree is easy to spot. Its natural shape has been destroyed, while a properly pruned tree looks well-shaped, symmetrical and healthy. In fact, a tree that is pruned correctly will show no evidence of alteration. With proper pruning, an arborist will spend time carefully selecting and removing branches.

Proper pruning is an important part of caring for and protecting the health of your trees. In fact, many tree care professionals recommend that homeowners start early and continue proper pruning throughout the life a tree.

The Right Approach

A tree is a valuable asset. As long-term investments, trees require careful decisions and the occasional advice of a professional. If you are unable to do the work yourself, you may want to consider hiring a professional. Make sure you find a competent, insured and certified tree care professional.

"In Missouri, there are trained tree care professionals, and there are tree cutters," said Robert L. Krepps, Forestry Division Administrator with the Missouri Department of Conservation. "Tree cutters tend to be untrained, uninsured, inexperienced and minimally equipped. Many don't stay in business long,"

"Missouri does not have a regulatory group responsible for tree care standards or the quality of work performed by tree care providers," he added. "Basically, that means it is not against the law for a firm to advertise that it is a tree specialist, or that an individual is an arborist, even if they have no training in tree care."

There are many tree service companies in Missouri. Some have highly trained and competent employees, but others have employees who lack basic tree identification and tree care knowledge. Do your homework and select a company with skilled, trained employees.

Ask if the company you are considering is a member of an arborist association. The St. Louis Arborist Association expects its members to abide by the accepted national pruning standards, which do not advocate tree topping.

"We feel that the national standard is a good baseline to educate customers as well as professionals in the industry," said David Hill, president of the St. Louis Arborist Association. "It is one way we have to eliminate unprofessional practices like tree topping and climbing with spurs from the industry."

Topping vs. Pruning

Topping....

Branches are shortened, leaving stubbed-off branch ends.
Sprouting occurs near the ends of cut branches. Branches quickly grow back, only thicker.
Regrowth is weakly attached and breaks easily in storms.
Can cause dead branch stubs. Maximizes chances for future decay inside branches and trunk.
Tree quickly regains original size, but with weak branches.
Especially destructive if applied to entire tree.
Produces whole population of weak, unhealthy trees over time.
Recommended Pruning

Pruning....

Whole branches growing in undesirable directions are removed.
Only offending branches are removed.
Future storm damage is minimized.
Tree can grow over pruning wounds. Chances for decay are minimized.
Tends to lengthen time needed between prunings.
Works with natural growth habit of tree.
Encourages trees to grow safe and sound.

When seeking a tree service, check the company's topping policy. If they top, don't let them near your trees.

Selecting professional tree care in Missouri is a worthwhile investment of time and money. Inappropriate tree care could lead to the slow death of a favored tree which, with proper care, could live to be more than 100 years old.

Find out if the individual or company carries professional certification, particularly through the International Society of Arboriculture (ISA). ISA certifies individuals who meet a minimum experience requirement and pass an industry-based exam. A list of ISA Certified arborists in your area can be found on the Internet at <www2. champaign.isa-arbor.com/>.

 

[treeseer]

Tim, some of those links that talked about topping being okay on damaged trees are very old school, and wrong. :welcome:

There are a lot of ways to prune trees without damaging them needlessly, like the attached.

 

[teamtree]

Ok...Most trees guys know that topping is bad. I have read all the literature and know how to prune a tree.

You need to take your arguements to the customer who requests to have their trees topped. Yes their are bad tree guys out there that do not know any better and just do what the guys before them did. In my opinion, it does not pay to educate non-paying customers.

However, if your market (say the midwest) requests this service and believe me most of the calls for trimming are actually for "topping". They could care less what I say or even what a certified arborist says about it. I had a CA work for me and several customers told me to leave him at the shop when I come out to "top" their trees.

Again, don't make out like it is the end of the world. How many ads do you see on TV to stop this activity. When is the TCIA and ISA going to put some money into national advertising?

If you want to educate people it has to be a real attempt to educate the masses.

How many cigarettes are sold everyday? How many ads to quit smoking are run each day? Would it help?

So you guys preach all you want about the bad guys topping trees but if people are willing to pay for the service, it will continue.

 

[BCMA]

Tim, some of those links that talked about topping being okay on damaged trees are very old school, and wrong. :welcome:

There are a lot of ways to prune trees without damaging them needlessly, like the attached.

Treeseer- Yes, I know. Some of those articles are very narrow in their scope. I realize there is a much bigger picture out there, and a lot of different scenarios and applications when it comes to pruning. I have not had the time to go into all the different types and applications of tree pruning. Another book could be written on the subject.

These articles basically dealt with the indiscriminate “topping” of mature healthy trees. This is an old subject that we should not even be having. The issue of “topping” is an old issue and the professional tree care providers have come to an understanding of correct pruning in the many various situations they encounter.

The tree + physiology + desired goals- can work in harmony to meet the client’s desires.

Unfortunatly, closedmindedness still prevails in some areas. Let's do what we can to bring light into the world.

 

[teamtree]

Tree Topping

When seeking a tree service, check the company's topping policy. If they top, don't let them near your trees.

Ok...now this is funny. I have been asked to top hundreds of trees but only 1 person has ever asked me if I don't top trees.

Again, the market rules. I don't like it as well. I think it is wrong. I wish everyone who owned a tree knew and cared about their trees in a manner that would prevent topping. However, as long as someone, even a homeowner goes out there and tops his tree, someone will see it and think it is the right thing to do. I equate this problem to trying to stop an avalanche. I am so sick of going out and giving the same story to every customer about why topping hurts while I am looking at trees that have been topped regularly for the last 30 years. I can tell you in a county of 30,000 people and hundreds of churches, municipal buildings and commercial businesses. I would bet that of say out of a 10,000 properties I would bet that at least 50% and probably more of those properties have had their trees topped. That is at least 20,000 trees in one county in one state that has there trees topped. This practice was going on for years before I even thought about tree service as a living.

I get into the tree biz trying to do what is right only to find out very few people care about what is right. I am trying to make a difference in my community. But I have to stay in business to make a difference.

Don't tell me the facts....I know the numbers. And the government does not care as the local county government had over 40 trees topped on public grounds.

So don't tell me what the #### to do and how to do it. I don't care what you CA and BCMA say....you all can sit on your high perches and preach all you want.

Here is an idea....why don't you educate the market on what they want.

Here is another statistic, there are no CA in the southern part of the state that operates a legitimate business and educates the market. They stick with their few customers and say #### the rest.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Yup....opcorn:

 

[teamtree]

The tree + physiology + desired goals- can work in harmony to meet the client’s desires.



Okay...here is one....my tree is too tall...can you cut it in half?

There is no legitimate pruning for this desired goal of customer.

Okay...tell them about thinning and crown reduction.

That sounds good but how tall will my tree be when you are done...about half the size now?

Been there done that.

Okay say you get them to agree on the price and you tell them that it will be $300 to crown clean including a crown reduction on their silver maple. OK fine...we are getting other estimates.

Ring ring...sir...we talked to someone else and they said they can do it for $150....OKay...good luck with that.

I just wasted 45 minutes of my time and get nothing to show for it. Most people do not care.

I try to find people who care but I have to pay bills and if the customer is requesting a service I have to consider offering that service or I will be out of business...so then where would we be.....

You would have one less decent hard working tree service trying to change the industry and market forces. I can go to bed at night knowing that I try my best to do the right thing but at the end of the day....the customer is making the decision to top is tree...I am just carrying out his wishes. If he wants it pruned properly or cut down I will do that as well. And most importantly, when someone asks my opinion I tell them the right thing to do.

I realize I am in the middle here and trying to do the right thing and still stay in business. I am not a hack and I operate a professional tree service. I inform my customers on the proper tree care methods and provide them with literature to back up my story. When giving the chance to do the right thing I do it. If the customer tells me to do what is best I will do what is best and suffer the butt chewing because I did not reduce the overall size of the tree although my chip box is full. I tell them that is what is best. If I am busy and they ask for a topping...I say no thanks....not interested. But, if it comes down to it....I will top a tree if the customer listens to my story and says thank you...i understand but I really want the tree topped. It has been topped before and if it dies it dies....then we will cut it down....how can you argue with that. Yes it makes me look bad for doing it...but it beats sitting at home wondering when I can pay my bills.

 

[BCMA]

Ok...Most trees guys know that topping is bad. I have read all the literature and know how to prune a tree.

You need to take your arguements to the customer who requests to have their trees topped. Yes their are bad tree guys out there that do not know any better and just do what the guys before them did. In my opinion, it does not pay to educate non-paying customers.

However, if your market (say the midwest) requests this service and believe me most of the calls for trimming are actually for "topping". They could care less what I say or even what a certified arborist says about it. I had a CA work for me and several customers told me to leave him at the shop when I come out to "top" their trees.

Again, don't make out like it is the end of the world. How many ads do you see on TV to stop this activity. When is the TCIA and ISA going to put some money into national advertising?

If you want to educate people it has to be a real attempt to educate the masses.

How many cigarettes are sold everyday? How many ads to quit smoking are run each day? Would it help?

So you guys preach all you want about the bad guys topping trees but if people are willing to pay for the service, it will continue.

Ok...Most trees guys know that topping is bad. I have read all the literature and know how to prune a tree.

That is good. Read all you can. Learning about trees is great!

You need to take your arguements to the customer who requests to have their trees topped. Yes their are bad tree guys out there that do not know any better and just do what the guys before them did. In my opinion, it does not pay to educate non-paying customers.

I do not expect the customer to understand what proper tree care is. That is why they hire professionals to educate them and lead them to do what is best for their tree…which is ultimately what is best for them. I have had no problem explaining to the potential client what is proper care for their tree and they respect and appreciate it. I cannot remember the last job I had to walk away from because they did not heed my advice. If they still want their tree ruined…sorry, I’m not the guy!

However, if your market (say the midwest) requests this service and believe me most of the calls for trimming are actually for "topping". They could care less what I say or even what a certified arborist says about it. I had a CA work for me and several customers told me to leave him at the shop when I come out to "top" their trees.

I’m sorry, but it sound like a great opportunity to come to your area and do some tree care education for the public. Trust me, if you will stand for what is right, people will follow you. I just posted a lot of information. Copy it and hand it out.

Again, don't make out like it is the end of the world. How many ads do you see on TV to stop this activity. When is the TCIA and ISA going to put some money into national advertising?

I would be in favor of this. National advertizing is expensive. There is a lot of information on the internet. Avail yourself to it.

If you want to educate people it has to be a real attempt to educate the masses.

You can at least start in your town and your custormers as I have done here.

How many cigarettes are sold everyday? How many ads to quit smoking are run each day? Would it help?

So you guys preach all you want about the bad guys topping trees but if people are willing to pay for the service, it will continue.

It will only continue as long as it is provided. This is what we are trying to accomplish here. STOP THE INDISCRIMINATE TOPPING OF TREES![/B]

 

[kennertree]

Topping is bad for business. I get calls all the time to repair these terrible trims jobs. The customer had it topped a few years back and now they have a mess on their hands. They didn't call the tree service that topped them. The guys that are topping usually only work for a person once, unless they just have them re-topped again. Most people learn the first time.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Have at it. Everyone including yourself nows knows clearly that you support and practice unprofessional tree care.

Removal. Where's my chainsaw!!!!!!

 

[BCMA]

Ok...now this is funny. I have been asked to top hundreds of trees but only 1 person has ever asked me if I don't top trees.

Again, the market rules. I don't like it as well. I think it is wrong. I wish everyone who owned a tree knew and cared about their trees in a manner that would prevent topping. However, as long as someone, even a homeowner goes out there and tops his tree, someone will see it and think it is the right thing to do. I equate this problem to trying to stop an avalanche. I am so sick of going out and giving the same story to every customer about why topping hurts while I am looking at trees that have been topped regularly for the last 30 years. I can tell you in a county of 30,000 people and hundreds of churches, municipal buildings and commercial businesses. I would bet that of say out of a 10,000 properties I would bet that at least 50% and probably more of those properties have had their trees topped. That is at least 20,000 trees in one county in one state that has there trees topped. This practice was going on for years before I even thought about tree service as a living.

I get into the tree biz trying to do what is right only to find out very few people care about what is right. I am trying to make a difference in my community. But I have to stay in business to make a difference.

Don't tell me the facts....I know the numbers. And the government does not care as the local county government had over 40 trees topped on public grounds.

So don't tell me what the #### to do and how to do it. I don't care what you CA and BCMA say....you all can sit on your high perches and preach all you want.

Here is an idea....why don't you educate the market on what they want.

Here is another statistic, there are no CA in the southern part of the state that operates a legitimate business and educates the market. They stick with their few customers and say #### the rest.

Ok...now this is funny. I have been asked to top hundreds of trees but only 1 person has ever asked me if I don't top trees.

I HAVE HAD PEOPLE ASK ME IF I WOULD TOP THEIR TREES AND I SAID NO! They said, “Great!” You are the one we want to hire. We don’t want some “hack” out here!

Again, the market rules. I don't like it as well. I think it is wrong. I wish everyone who owned a tree knew and cared about their trees in a manner that would prevent topping. However, as long as someone, even a homeowner goes out there and tops his tree, someone will see it and think it is the right thing to do. I equate this problem to trying to stop an avalanche. I am so sick of going out and giving the same story to every customer about why topping hurts while I am looking at trees that have been topped regularly for the last 30 years. I can tell you in a county of 30,000 people and hundreds of churches, municipal buildings and commercial businesses. I would bet that of say out of a 10,000 properties I would bet that at least 50% and probably more of those properties have had their trees topped. That is at least 20,000 trees in one county in one state that has there trees topped. This practice was going on for years before I even thought about tree service as a living.

I think you have a great opportunity to be a leader in your area and educate the public about proper tree care. You could own the market. People don’t want to do what is wrong for their trees. They just don’t know better. But, it will need to start with you saying no to all this topping.

I get into the tree biz trying to do what is right only to find out very few people care about what is right. I am trying to make a difference in my community. But I have to stay in business to make a difference.

Continue to take the high road. Do some advertizing that topping is bad.

Don't tell me the facts....I know the numbers. And the government does not care as the local county government had over 40 trees topped on public grounds.

Sorry to hear that. They were misinformed.

So don't tell me what the #### to do and how to do it. I don't care what you CA and BCMA say....you all can sit on your high perches and preach all you want.

Sorry to hear that. I hope someday you will be able to become a CA yourself. It’s a great program.

Here is an idea....why don't you educate the market on what they want.

I do educate the market where I operate.

Here is another statistic, there are no CA in the southern part of the state that operates a legitimate business and educates the market. They stick with their few customers and say #### the rest.

That is why our industry stinks. We have little to no jurisdiction over the operation of illegitimate tree care providers. They are many services illegal in their operations, parole, safety procedures, insurances and licenses. This needs to stop. If the illegitimate tree care provider goes away, so will the butchering.

 

[treeseer]

Most people learn the first time.

Or the second. I get 5 calls to restore hacked trees for every 1 topping request. Tree owners here are disgusted with topping, and toppers.

team I feel your pain but it's good work well shown that can change markets. Topping begets more topping--the cycle will not end until the man with the saw just says NO! Most callers who want 1/2 smaller trees are open to accepting a tree 1/4 smaller after careful reduction. If you are hired to top to 1/2, just do it the way you think it should be done, and let them study it a while. Most will accept it, and pay.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I wonder if we're all comparing apples to apples. You've used the words "indiscriminate topping" a few times good doctor and I think the majority of us agree that this is unacceptable but what about a "severe reduction" for the safety of a client's home, ya know, where their children sleep at night? Yes, a tree cut in half will eventually die but if you bring it back to good, strong branches it could continue to live. Yes you could cable it, do a "crown reduction", hug it and sing kumbaya but you'll still have several tons of wood hanging over your client's nursery. A good, solid cut back of the tree could be the only option. 'Tis a better than cutting it down, methinks.

 

[teamtree]

I have all the literature and pamphlets to hand out to the customer.

I have read enough on the subject. I do not need to be educated any more on the subject matter.

I am glad that all your customers listen to you.

I am glad you have never given an estimate only to find out someone did something other than what you advised.

One question....you never had a client tell you not to cut a tree that you recommended for removal?

You are truly a lucky person.

Like I said...I know what is right....it is the customer who needs help.

Please come to our area and do your best to educate the whole area. I will foot the bill for your hotel. I will rent out a hall to have you speak. This is a crisis area and I would say one of the worst areas in the world to promote tree care. I need help. I need more legitimate tree services to help promote what is right. I am fighting the battle with no support. I would just like a little ####ing appreciation for fighting the battle.

I will tell you about a couple of wins. A large church in the area who previously had about 60 trees topped (not by us) and we were asked to come in and give our advise on their trees. We wrote a proposal to go through and do a crown restoration project and examine the trees for hazards and possible removal. I mentioned several trees that needed to come down due to the effects of previous toppings. We priced it a little low to get the work to show the whole church what proper tree care is all about.

So...I feel good about the work I do.

 

[limbwalker54]

TreeCo, we are on the same page. I am studying for my certification right now, and hope to achieve my goal of educating my clients one at a time.

And, BTW, so far I have been 100% successful at convincing clients who weren't clear on proper pruning as to what it actually is, and why topping is bad. If I run into someone who insists, they can insist somewhere else. When I'm at their neighbor's home three years down the road performing proper tree care on trees that look better, are healthy, and aren't in decline due to some hack hatracking them to pieces I'll give them a price on the removal of the carcass and I will remind them of the wise words "topping is bad".

Even a little picture I have on a sticker says 'if God wanted trees to look like this, he would have created birds with chainsaw feet'.

Believe it or not, that picture helps me illustrate my point with clients sometimes.

Oh, and if anyone here wants to call me elite for doing the right thing, that's fine. I guess when you're performing substandard practices, any practice that is proper MUST be elite......

 

[BCMA]

I wonder if we're all comparing apples to apples. You've used the words "indiscriminate topping" a few times good doctor and I think the majority of us agree that this is unacceptable but what about a "severe reduction" for the safety of a client's home, ya know, where their children sleep at night? Yes, a tree cut in half will eventually die but if you bring it back to good, strong branches it could continue to live. Yes you could cable it, do a "crown reduction", hug it and sing kumbaya but you'll still have several tons of wood hanging over your client's nursery. A good, solid cut back of the tree could be the only option. 'Tis a better than cutting it down, methinks.

The reason I use the work “indiscriminate” is because there are a few exceptions to the rule. This get complicated to explain because there are so many scenarios, and types of trees with different growth characteristics. Each tree and situation needs to be evaluated on its own merits. A general rule that I follow is that I do not recommend “crown reduction” or “drop-crotch pruning” often. I always try to work with a tree maintaining its natural branching, leaders, or apical dominance. Height seldom equates hazard. There are certain structural problem a tree can develop that will increase the chance of failure, and those can be mitigated through various means including pruning. Hazard tree abatement is a whole different subject which should be put on another thread.

Here is a general rule, if your pruning does not maintain the apical dominance of the branch, or if it creates excessive suckering (water-sprouts), you very well may have made a mistake. Pollarding is an exception. The excessive suckering is not natural, and is the trees response to injury.

If a person is concerned that their tree is too tall, and usually they have no understanding of that concern, I tell them the moon is 93,000,000 miles away and it will not be rubbing it any time soon. I then explain to them how tree are designed, their growth characteristics, and inspect the tree for structural defects. I’ve always been able to answer their concerns, give them good information, and sell proper tree work that is good for their trees.
I’m hoping that others reading these posts will learn to do the same. It’s not that hard.

 

[BCMA]

I have all the literature and pamphlets to hand out to the customer.

I have read enough on the subject. I do not need to be educated any more on the subject matter.

I am glad that all your customers listen to you.

I am glad you have never given an estimate only to find out someone did something other than what you advised.

One question....you never had a client tell you not to cut a tree that you recommended for removal?

You are truly a lucky person.

Like I said...I know what is right....it is the customer who needs help.

Please come to our area and do your best to educate the whole area. I will foot the bill for your hotel. I will rent out a hall to have you speak. This is a crisis area and I would say one of the worst areas in the world to promote tree care. I need help. I need more legitimate tree services to help promote what is right. I am fighting the battle with no support. I would just like a little ####ing appreciation for fighting the battle.

I will tell you about a couple of wins. A large church in the area who previously had about 60 trees topped (not by us) and we were asked to come in and give our advise on their trees. We wrote a proposal to go through and do a crown restoration project and examine the trees for hazards and possible removal. I mentioned several trees that needed to come down due to the effects of previous toppings. We priced it a little low to get the work to show the whole church what proper tree care is all about.

So...I feel good about the work I do.

GOOD JOB...TEAMTREE. That is what it is about!

 

[teamtree]

You all make good points that supports what I am trying to do for my company, my community and this industry.

I do educate my community, I volunteer my time with and organization trying to stop topping.

I agree and I admit when I stand my ground I get more attention from the customer. I feel better when I walk away but with some remorse that I am letting the "hacks" win by doing the work. I need to get over playing down to the competition.

I agree, I wish there was a little more structure for this industry.

I may not be as good as BCMA and TreeCo and I agree with almost every thing they say, especially as far as tree care goes. But I disagree that I am hurting the industry by topping a few trees every year at the price of the greater good. For example, I recently removed 5 large trees that had been previously topped (technical rigging required) and trimmed a 6th tree that most would consider a "topping". If the other guy got the job....someone who openly admits topping as an accepted practice and advertises "topping" in the yellow pages...I would have promoted a loser. I am supposed to walk away from that job and let him have all that removal money??? Money to be spent by him in the bars. He does no good for the community....He does not educate customers. If me hitting him in the wallet was bad then I should get out of the business and let him make hay and topping trees. I can take that money and help promote proper tree care. I know it sounds ass backwards but I believe it to be the right thing in the right situation.

I spent about an hour with a lady and discussed the effects of topping and said I will give you an estimate to properly prune her trees. A few weeks later one of my employees ask about the job and who was doing it. Well, it was the guy mentioned above and he was making topping cuts at about 8" limbs. Here is a pic of what he did....so what did I do wrong??? I provided her with several items of literature from the TCIA and ISA. I told her about the problems they would have...

My mother ask them about the job and they told her they thought the guys who did the job did a nice job trimming their trees and would recommend them.

 

[Rftreeman]

1. If everyone knows that indiscriminate topping is bad, then why is this type of tree care still practiced?

2. It may be “only a tree” but why ruin it? Is it because there are many more? That a pretty lame excuse!

3. I am not a Doctor, and never said that someone must be a Certified Arborist to perform tree work. Go back and check my post if you will.

I can see clearly now that there are some on this forum that will continue to “butcher” trees with little to no regard for proper tree care. I also see that by some, education and credentials are frowned upon.

There may be some young and new arborist that are lurking and that have recently entered this career field. The field of arboriculture is a wonderful and exciting career. It has been a tremendous experience work with people and trees for the past 23 years. Let me encourage you as you progress in this profession to apply yourself in education about trees and proper tree care. The Certified Arborist program is not perfect, but is a good place to start.

If you are on the fence about this subject, please do not listen to these hacks. What they are doing, and what they promote is not right. There is more to our profession that just making a buck. These guys could care less about what they are doing…”They are just trees”.

ANSI A300 (Part 1)- 2008 Pruning Standards,

4.51 Topping: Reduction of tree size using internodal cuts without regard to tree health or structural integrity. Topping is not an acceptable pruning practice.

6.1.7 Topping and lion’s tailing shall be considered unacceptable pruning practices for trees.

:deadhorse:

 

[ropensaddle]

I have topped for power line clearance but would have rather removed
the trees and planted better species! I have topped to preserve a severe
crown die back but I only cut the dead out still looked topped. In every case I have; I have tried to convince the customer they would be better served by replacement and removal ! Top a healthy tree I won't I don't want anyone identifying me by hacking up their trees. Thinning and slight crown reduction is what I recommend or just thinning!