Topping spar trees

[Humptulips]

Scabbing, or scab skyline. Where the haulback goes out to the backline, back to the rigging, and there is a block joined by a short chain which rides on the non-working side of your haulback to give lift.

Regarding the carriages, yep, shotgunning is awesome, but we'd be lucky to get one setting we can shotgun in a year.

The acme carriage we're getting is a clamping slackpuller. No internal drum, weighs in at under 2000 pounds. I've talked to one guy who has a tmy 70 like us, and is using the S28. He reckons he has increased production by 15% after only 3 months of using it. He is also now running a 3/4" swaged mainrope, and only 2 chokers, instead of a 7/8" main with 3. Still got the 1 1/8 sky. I'm not game to go down to 3/4 main though, we're in pretty decent wood, around the 2.5 ton piece size, and the bush we're moving into in a few months is huge wood, 3.5 ton piece size.

I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on this carriage.

We would call that Polocking or grabinsky or different versions of that word, basically anything with an 'insky on the end.

I would really advise against reducing the size of your skyline. Your instincts are right on the money. You can really put a lot of strain on the skyline when you start to pull from the side and you definitely don't want to break it. Aside from the bad that you're used to having from a broken skyline you will apt to have a wrecked carriage. With that kind of money riding on the skyline you have to be just a bit more carefull.
In my experience you will be quite happy with it if you have decent lift. When I say decent lift I mean enough but not to much. A lot of lift like a 100 feet or more can really eat up the time spitting slack out of the carriage. 50 feet or there abouts is perfect. Strange to think you can have too much lift but it is true.
You might ask your friend if he is running two sets of chokers and presetting or if they are setting them hot. I can't see how you could increase production unless you preset. It can work very good on the right show.

 

[oregoncutter]

carriages

I have worked with Bowmans with the internal drum, Eagles, and eaglettes, as well as the clamping acme carriages. I prefer the acme over the bowmans, they have less moving parts, require less maintenance, use alot less diesel per hour, and are substantially lighter. Alot of Yarder operators complain about the carriages with an internal drum and drop line because they can't allways see and control the initial pull, and can't control how hard the drop line from the carriage is pulling, but that doesen't matter much with a competent rigginslinger. The trouble we used to have with the Bowmans was You have to keep up on and make sure the dropline isn't getting fouled on the drum it makes a hell of a mess when it does especially with a turn on it, if everyonce in awhile You hooked a turn spooled You're cable out, and then pulled the carriage back to the turn it took care of the fouling problems. and then there was only two choices for speed up and down. I can't complain much about the acme carriages, just keep up on making sure You're clamps are adjusted properly, and shim them when You need to, also with the ones I worked with the bolts for the skyline clamps had a tendency too back off before anyother fasteners, so we used to go through and check all the fasteners for the clamps in the morning, and when we greased it 2 or 3 times a week. Another thing to keep in mind is those acmes are less stable sitting on the ground than a Bowman or Eagle so I'd make for damn sure when You bring it in to fuel, service, change roads, or shut it down that You set it down on as flat a spot as You can, and anchor it with the haywire drum, it's not pretty even if they just flop over on someone. I would'nt skimp on skyline (mainline) diameter either. We used to run between 6 and 10 chokers presetting with ours just depended on the wood we were in and the manpower, and a rigginslinger that wasn't too greedy.

 

[Mountainman]

I read the first page, and it's getting late, so please pardon this question if it has already been touched on. According to the GREAT Finley Hays, it's not a good idea to rig a tree unless you 'thunk' it with an axe along the way as you climb it, to listen for hollow or rotten spots. I'm curious. Is this still done when rigging a spar?

 

[oregoncutter]

thunking?

One of the other more experienced guys on here at hookin may better answer that than me. I would allways look it over real good for any obvious signs of poor roots, or signs that it may be dying. I never done any thunkin, but I didn't tend hook all that long either. I suppose if You top it You''ll find out real quick if it's solid or not at that point I never did rig anything rotten, but I have worked for guys in the past that did.

 

[Mountainman]

I have never topped a spar, but with respect, I have a hunch that if you find out that it's rotten while topping one, it may be too late, eh?

 

[Humptulips]

I imagine that would apply more to old growth then 2nd growth. Probably a good idea but I never did it unless the tree looked worrisome.

 

[Kiwilogger]

Copy that, tulips.

We're in plantation forest here, so it doesn't really apply to us either.

We go mark out our spars before the trees are felled, obviously, but as it's clearfell, you'd hope you had it right.

My breaker outs (you guys call 'em riggin slingers)set up 2 spar tees today, I'll send them down the hill on monday with my camera, and post a couple of pics next week.

 

[slowp]

It's all second growth here. We (and I do too) mostly look at how the tree is rooted in the ground, and for any rot or weakness indicators. There are certain species that are more desirable than say, a Western Hemlock. Doug-fir is the best to use here.

If the hooktender is a tree topping one, I'll maybe mark trees to be felled that are near the tail tree so the top doesn't hit another tree and spring back. We do 100% thinnings. The hooktender going now doesn't top his tail trees much. But he does put lots of twisters on the stump anchor.

 

[Mountainman]

My dad had one ancient International cable blade dozer (TD-21, I think?) at Vail that he felt was just about worthless in that day and age. So it lived its final days in the woods as a tail hold for a grapple yarder. In that application, it worked quite well.

Ever hear about the early days of rigging, when the blocks were lubed by oil, in oil cups? As the story went, someone had to fill the oil cups about twice a day, and you could always tell who worked the landing, because their clothes were covered with spots of oil. I imagine they were glad to see the advent of the grease fitting.

We take so much for granted these days....

 

[Humptulips]

My dad had one ancient International cable blade dozer (TD-21, I think?) at Vail that he felt was just about worthless in that day and age. So it lived its final days in the woods as a tail hold for a grapple yarder. In that application, it worked quite well.

Ever hear about the early days of rigging, when the blocks were lubed by oil, in oil cups? As the story went, someone had to fill the oil cups about twice a day, and you could always tell who worked the landing, because their clothes were covered with spots of oil. I imagine they were glad to see the advent of the grease fitting.

We take so much for granted these days....

Hate to be a spoilsport but I think a little wrong. The blocks with the cups took grease and were called strangely enough grease cups. I had one but traded it away. The bigger blocks like high lead blocks , haulback tree blocks ( like goes at the head tree), loading blocks and moving blocks were oil blocks. I used a couple of these at different times. They were old. I can't say when they stopped making the oil blocks but a long time ago. They had a plug on the side and you filled it up with oil. Seems I remember they took about a gallon but I imagine that varied with the size of block. One was a big fall block and the other was a smaller moving block. Used them northbending and southbending.

Mountainman,
I asked my Dad if he might have known your father but the name didn't ring a bell with him. I had an uncle that worked at Vale and probably knew him but he has passed on.

 

[Mountainman]

Hate to be a spoilsport but I think a little wrong. The blocks with the cups took grease and were called strangely enough grease cups. I had one but traded it away. The bigger blocks like high lead blocks , haulback tree blocks ( like goes at the head tree), loading blocks and moving blocks were oil blocks. I used a couple of these at different times. They were old. I can't say when they stopped making the oil blocks but a long time ago. They had a plug on the side and you filled it up with oil. Seems I remember they took about a gallon but I imagine that varied with the size of block. One was a big fall block and the other was a smaller moving block. Used them northbending and southbending.

Mountainman,
I asked my Dad if he might have known your father but the name didn't ring a bell with him. I had an uncle that worked at Vale and probably knew him but he has passed on.

I stand corrected, and I appreciate it. Thanks for asking your Dad about mine. I'm sure they both stomped on some of the same ground at some point. Vail has been gutted as well. When I was there in 2002, the bastards had even leveled all but one small portion of that beautiful old shop building that had been there since 1927. That's where I first learned how to weld. About the only thing left from the old days was the water tower. Even most of the old fire trucks were gone.

Darius Kinsey sure left us all a grand legacy. I think most of the woods bosses knew those days would not last forever, because I have heard that the one time they allowed anyone to take a break, was when Mr. Kinsey showed up to take photos. I'm glad I at least got a taste of it.

 

[Kiwilogger]

 

[Kiwilogger]

Need to shorten the strops for the block, I know, but thats how we rig our spar trees here in NZ.

 

[Kiwilogger]

Stumps on the spar.

 

[Kiwilogger]

Some big bridling off our spar. About a 200ft bridle.

Northbending.

 

[Kiwilogger]

Another pic of the rigging bridled out. The small line shackled to the rider block is our tagline (slackpulling line), we attach it to the rider block to effect bridling from any where on the sky by simply holding the tag.

 

[Kiwilogger]

My machine...

 

[Kiwilogger]

Here's a turn been pulled up (from a decent 200ft bridle) to the sky, on the way in.

Pity it's a crappy head pull, but you get to see a shot of the rigging, and how the ropes are rigged etc...

 

[Kiwilogger]

A shot of the skid...

 

[Humptulips]

Well, it certainly is beautiful country. Thanks for the pics.
You make me have to think about the terminology. Little different here but basically the same.
A couple questions. Why the two straps in the tree instead of one a little larger? I see you have spreader straps on the butt rigging. Like them? Never used the tagline like that. I'm sure most of the engineers I've worked with would flip if you suggested it. Can't say I'd use it even if I could. Heard about it but don't really see the advantage. Just as easy to move a sideblock if done right.