Topping spar trees

[tramp bushler]

I hate twisters ,i really hate !! Twisters

Thanks for the pictures Kiwi ...... How many trees a day do you guys get .... I like how you guys use the lift tree guylines with clamps instead of twisters ....... I,ve had to rig lift trees with no pimp using 15"youngs , and had to use strawline as my pass ropes .. .. But having a pimp and a nice little riggin block or a Tommy Moore block sure makes the climbers job ALOT FUNNER .................
.
. I only worked high lead , but mostly used a ****** block ... and quite a bit of shotgunnin .... I really like shotgunning . Nice and quiet ....... and a lot less stuff going on overhead ... Needs the right setting tho ...

 

[Kiwilogger]

Well, it certainly is beautiful country. Thanks for the pics.
You make me have to think about the terminology. Little different here but basically the same.
A couple questions. Why the two straps in the tree instead of one a little larger? I see you have spreader straps on the butt rigging. Like them? Never used the tagline like that. I'm sure most of the engineers I've worked with would flip if you suggested it. Can't say I'd use it even if I could. Heard about it but don't really see the advantage. Just as easy to move a sideblock if done right.

Cheers mate, all countries have their beauty spots, it's just ours are everywhere you look.

As to the 2 straps (I guess you're talking about the strops that hold the block up in the spar) , I agree. In actual fact they are 7/8" swaged, and in my opinion, just the one that size would be enough, although by the rules we actually have to use two 7/8", or one 1 1/8" strop.

Regarding the "spreader bars" on the rigging, we used to use big assed logging chains around 7 metres long, attached to the swivels on the butt rigging. Without the bars in there, it would be hells own job getting the chains untangled when you drop the rigging down. We changed to choker strops about 6 months ago. Once we get the carriage, it'll all change. Shorter choker strops (and no rigging of course) etc. So yeah, they are extremely good with chains, but I also don't see any disadvantage with chokers. They are actually 4 inch solid bars, and add a decent bit of weight when you are dropping the rigging in a deep gut over the other side of a ridge, so do come in handy for that too.

Tag-lining with northbend is awesome, particularly where we are logging at the moment with the sky about 400 yards past the backline up into some standing native bush, and we have to do huge sky shifts. Very few stumps etc. You can bridle a straight line from the yarder to the working block. No way you could that without a series of tail shifts. We use it a lot when we have to do big sky shifts.
The other great thing about tagging, is that you can whack the sky up the centre of a setting, bridle out one side, flip the ropes around, and bridle out the other side all with minimum shifting.

Where we are Hump, there's no way of using a backline machine, very few decent solid sky stumps on the backline, (stony soil, shallow rooted trees) and we do what works for us. Pretty much all our stumps have to be tied back

Us Kiwi's mate, are the kings of improvisation.

This country was built with number 8 wire, and haybale twine.

 

[Kiwilogger]

Thanks for the pictures Kiwi ...... How many trees a day do you guys get .... I like how you guys use the lift tree guylines with clamps instead of twisters ....... I,ve had to rig lift trees with no pimp using 15"youngs , and had to use strawline as my pass ropes .. .. But having a pimp and a nice little riggin block or a Tommy Moore block sure makes the climbers job ALOT FUNNER .................
.
. I only worked high lead , but mostly used a ****** block ... and quite a bit of shotgunnin .... I really like shotgunning . Nice and quiet ....... and a lot less stuff going on overhead ... Needs the right setting tho ...

Hey mate. On an average day we'll pull 150 trees, somedays more, some less. In the best creamy logging I could pull 300 a day, but that would be rare.

We use a nice little snatch block to lift ALL the gear up the tree to our climber. Our block up there is a 15" ropemaster, so I know what you're saying. I watched the Axmen show on telly the other night, and this dude was setting up a spar, and he had to lift all that junk up the tree himself. Poor bugger. That's what I call doing it hard!

We do a bit of scab skyline here too (****** system you guys call it), suits short pulls out to about 900 yards with a decent bit of lift. Easy shifts, and we can really pump it out in the right setting.

And yes, shotgunning is the holy grail of logging...

 

[tramp bushler]

A Flop Over

. Kiwi . what you described as switching the lines around , we call in High Lead a FLOP OVER .. Nice fast way to change roads , and with the right ground , logs and crew it is a good money maker .. Use it sometimes if the hook tender has a lot of work getting set up for some big change in the back end and it will take him quite some time to get ready for a road change ..... Or it,s used alot on the 1st road change at a new setting (ie) new time towering up the yarder . ....

 

[Humptulips]

Cheers mate, all countries have their beauty spots, it's just ours are everywhere you look.

As to the 2 straps (I guess you're talking about the strops that hold the block up in the spar) , I agree. In actual fact they are 7/8" swaged, and in my opinion, just the one that size would be enough, although by the rules we actually have to use two 7/8", or one 1 1/8" strop.

Regarding the "spreader bars" on the rigging, we used to use big assed logging chains around 7 metres long, attached to the swivels on the butt rigging. Without the bars in there, it would be hells own job getting the chains untangled when you drop the rigging down. We changed to choker strops about 6 months ago. Once we get the carriage, it'll all change. Shorter choker strops (and no rigging of course) etc. So yeah, they are extremely good with chains, but I also don't see any disadvantage with chokers. They are actually 4 inch solid bars, and add a decent bit of weight when you are dropping the rigging in a deep gut over the other side of a ridge, so do come in handy for that too.

Tag-lining with northbend is awesome, particularly where we are logging at the moment with the sky about 400 yards past the backline up into some standing native bush, and we have to do huge sky shifts. Very few stumps etc. You can bridle a straight line from the yarder to the working block. No way you could that without a series of tail shifts. We use it a lot when we have to do big sky shifts.
The other great thing about tagging, is that you can whack the sky up the centre of a setting, bridle out one side, flip the ropes around, and bridle out the other side all with minimum shifting.

Where we are Hump, there's no way of using a backline machine, very few decent solid sky stumps on the backline, (stony soil, shallow rooted trees) and we do what works for us. Pretty much all our stumps have to be tied back

Us Kiwi's mate, are the kings of improvisation.

This country was built with number 8 wire, and haybale twine.

I find myself laughing at myself while trying to understand the difference in terminology. Had to reread it several times. I still don't undestand what a "backline machine" is though.

I think the machines I worked on that tagline would be wrapped up in the turn before long. Either a good machine or a talented engineer you've got down there, maybe both. I always would set up my haulback on a north bend so that I was continually working back or dropping in. That way I could change roads while the chaser was unhooking the turn. No time lost and then as you say a little differently we would flop over when one side was logged out.

Ever use a sucker block. That would be when you are hanging back beyond your last log quite aways and shotgunning. You hang a block on the bight of the skyline and pull the skyline to the side with the haulback. You can get some pretty wide roads when the tail stumps are scarce but you do need god lift.

 

[Kiwilogger]

Hey hump, I AM the "yarder engineer." :hmm3grin2orange: And I've got a good machine. I like to keep it to a high standard always. No one can ever pull wood, no matter how good you are, if the machine breaks down.

The tag never gets wrapped in a turn, because the clutch for the tag drum (it's a wichita- not sure of the spelling) is adjustable, so you set it at a certain pressure, say about 15-18 psi. When you pull in a drag, oops, I mean a turn , the tag drum actually turns slightly faster than the mainrope drum, so keeps slightly ahead of it, and the clutch slips so you don't put bugger all pressure on the tagline.

What I call a backline machine is a tractor/dozer set up to run the ropes on the backline. When we are northbending and we can get the tractor on the backline I'd have the sky going over the blade, under the tractor, and connects onto the drawbar, and the working block goes on the corner of the blade attached via a shackle. I'd then either have the haulback spread at the backline, or I might just block it out at the front, and may even just run one block on the backline. Just all depends on the situation. When you are scabbing, (grabinski/******) the tractor is even better, a block on each corner of the blade and you're in to it. I enjoy manual shifting, but man, can you smoke the wood when you are mobile on the backline!

 

[Humptulips]

Hey hump, I AM the "yarder engineer." :hmm3grin2orange: And I've got a good machine. I like to keep it to a high standard always. No one can ever pull wood, no matter how good you are, if the machine breaks down.

The tag never gets wrapped in a turn, because the clutch for the tag drum (it's a wichita- not sure of the spelling) is adjustable, so you set it at a certain pressure, say about 15-18 psi. When you pull in a drag, oops, I mean a turn , the tag drum actually turns slightly faster than the mainrope drum, so keeps slightly ahead of it, and the clutch slips so you don't put bugger all pressure on the tagline.

What I call a backline machine is a tractor/dozer set up to run the ropes on the backline. When we are northbending and we can get the tractor on the backline I'd have the sky going over the blade, under the tractor, and connects onto the drawbar, and the working block goes on the corner of the blade attached via a shackle. I'd then either have the haulback spread at the backline, or I might just block it out at the front, and may even just run one block on the backline. Just all depends on the situation. When you are scabbing, (grabinski/******) the tractor is even better, a block on each corner of the blade and you're in to it. I enjoy manual shifting, but man, can you smoke the wood when you are mobile on the backline!

Ahh, a tailhold cat. When we get done discussing logging we can write a Kiwi to Northwest logger dictionary.

 

[Kiwilogger]

Ha!

My wife is always asking me if I'm done talking trees yet. :hmm3grin2orange:

Hasn't happened so far. LOL~!

 

[hammerlogging]

Ha!

My wife is always asking me if I'm done talking trees yet. :hmm3grin2orange:

Hasn't happened so far. LOL~!

Heard that... same here.

I caught the essential NZ phrasery in there, "bugger all"... like it.

I work for an outfit with a TMY70 but a 53' lattice tower instead. But we're not running it right now. I've still got a little deciphering on those rigging picks to figure out what all you've done, I haven't been around the cable logging all that long but its abilities are greatly needed here in Appalachia. 99% of it is dozer/skidder logged, even our steady 60% slopes. Stupid, but leaves a lot of room for progress!

 

[Kiwilogger]

Heard that... same here.

I caught the essential NZ phrasery in there, "bugger all"... like it.

I work for an outfit with a TMY70 but a 53' lattice tower instead. But we're not running it right now. I've still got a little deciphering on those rigging picks to figure out what all you've done, I haven't been around the cable logging all that long but its abilities are greatly needed here in Appalachia. 99% of it is dozer/skidder logged, even our steady 60% slopes. Stupid, but leaves a lot of room for progress!

I learnt to drive haulers on a tmy45 lattice tower. Only 3 guy's, single speed trans, no reverse. Good machine to learn on, quite forgiving. The 70's are easier and more fun to drive.

Did they put the lattice tower on your tmy aftermarket, and why? Tower fall over?

My tower has only 4 guys, which sucks a bit, but I recently found in Australia a TMY70 5 guy machine with the swivelling guyrope hat on the top of the tower. The machine was burnt out under the cab. It's running a detroit V8 and twin disc 5spd trans exactly like ours. They only want $AUD70k for it. Our tower has the fixed guy hat, and you must be more precise in positioning your hauler in relation to your 2 centre guys. I'd love the extra guy too. half the amount of turns. I'm busy trying to talk the Bossman into buying it. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Humptulips]

I worked on one of the earliest thunderbirds, not sure the number but it had a 40 foot lattice work boom. 1 1/8 skyline amd 3/4 skidding lines and 5/8 haulback. It had two skidding drums side by side that interlocked for using a mechanical dropline carriage. We never used it that way though. Usually used one of the skidding drums as a snap guy.
It was pretty good for a small machine. This was about 25 years ago.

 

[Kiwilogger]

I worked on one of the earliest thunderbirds, not sure the number but it had a 40 foot lattice work boom. 1 1/8 skyline amd 3/4 skidding lines and 5/8 haulback. It had two skidding drums side by side that interlocked for using a mechanical dropline carriage. We never used it that way though. Usually used one of the skidding drums as a snap guy.
It was pretty good for a small machine. This was about 25 years ago.

Sounds like a tmy45, except our 45 had only a 1" sky, 2x 3/4 main (skidding line), and 3/4 tail.

 

[hammerlogging]

My understanding is that it was built by Thuinderbird just like that, mayb e they made 2 or 3 of them. We're the second owners.

Volume per acre is a challenge with yarding here. Hence why our smaller super mobile yarder may be more appropriate in many more circumstances because setup tiome is shorter and easier, smaller crew to operate, etc. Even with it, we have prebunched under the skyline and used it instead of a long skid. I'd like to do that with the 70- bunching under parallel corridors, corridors spaced 600' apart- jammer log (i.e. tong thrower with chokers)/shovel to under the corridors. Log out a big valley that way, no skid, minimal dozed skid roads (i.e. "cat trails")

 

[oregoncutter]

Thunderbird Yarders.

I spent a fair amount of time under a tsy 2000, and a tsy 70, the 70 could really pull some wood. I have never worked around a swing Yarder that did'nt have tracks under it, I have worked a few towers that were trailer mounted though. What's the point of not having tracks under a swing yarder like the one in Kiwis pictures, other than easier to move maybe on the road.? Also I'd like to say to kiwi that's pretty country, it looks alot like south western Oregon here.

 

[Kiwilogger]

I spent a fair amount of time under a tsy 2000, and a tsy 70, the 70 could really pull some wood. I have never worked around a swing Yarder that did'nt have tracks under it, I have worked a few towers that were trailer mounted though. What's the point of not having tracks under a swing yarder like the one in Kiwis pictures, other than easier to move maybe on the road.? Also I'd like to say to kiwi that's pretty country, it looks alot like south western Oregon here.

That's not a swinger, OC. But I prefer tracks under any yarder, swinger or not.

 

[Humptulips]

Rubber tires can be real good if you have a lot of long moves. Lowboys are expensive. You do need some good roads though.
I hate swing yarders. If I never see another one it would suit me just fine.
Hows that for a line to get an argument going and keep the thread going.

 

[Kiwilogger]

Yeah, I guess they have there advantages. Our tmy can do about 70km/h on the road. Scary, but!

Tracks are better in terms of turning your hauler and stuff, way more stable and so you can leave the tower at full extension even if the skid is a bit dodgy. Dropping the tower is a pain just to turn.

I like swingers better'n towers, they're heaps more fun to drive. Way more fun than a tower.



How's that for the beginnings of a good argy....?

 

[tramp bushler]

. . Swing yarders are fun to watch work , And it,s great for the engineer to do the loggin . I hate chasing on them ..,. Always having to move the coiling block ........ Big towers are the nicest .. Big wood , Huge setting.. When you start a new road. It gets nice and busy but with some saneness , When the road is almost done ,some coffee drinkin time ......

 

[Humptulips]

Yeah, I guess they have there advantages. Our tmy can do about 70km/h on the road. Scary, but!

Tracks are better in terms of turning your hauler and stuff, way more stable and so you can leave the tower at full extension even if the skid is a bit dodgy. Dropping the tower is a pain just to turn.

I like swingers better'n towers, they're heaps more fun to drive. Way more fun than a tower.



How's that for the beginnings of a good argy....?

Driving a yarder? We're talking logging not cruising on friday night.
Need to put you out on the backend for a few days and you'd see why I dislike them. Three, four times the work, maybe more, almost always have to rig tail trees. You need good stumps so don't think you'll get away from that by getting away from a skyline. Extremely hard on lines. You will become an expert splicer if you work on one very long. All of this and you will get way less production then if you had a skyline up. Before you say anything I know you can run a skyline on a swing yarder but the drums are not built for it. Poor skyline machine at best. To top it all you will pay double for a swing yarder over a small tower.

On that small T-bird I worked on I could go 90 degrees or a little more without turning. How far can you go on that 70?

 

[oregoncutter]

Rubber tires can be real good if you have a lot of long moves. Lowboys are expensive. You do need some good roads though.
I hate swing yarders. If I never see another one it would suit me just fine.
Hows that for a line to get an argument going and keep the thread going.

:agree2: I love Yarders as long as I am not working under one. Worked under a ty90 , and some sort of madill tower setting chokers as a kid, then chased alot around a couple of tsy70s, pulled riggin and hooked a little under the 70s as well. I agree a swing yarder will keep a hooktender reeal busy, and a hand processing chaser, short yarding, and making an endless amount of coils, notching, and changing, and picking guyline stumps, pulling guylines around. ( man I don't miss that much). I do still take on chasing jobs, if I can't get enough cutting contracts to stay busy. I guess I like any yarder because without em there probably wouldn't be much of a need for me. Ever had to upright a fellen over swing yarder?