Treated buckthorn stumps with Tordon now nearby hackberries dying

[lindnova]

Last December I cleared a bunch of buckthorn and treated the stumps with Tordon. I have 2 areas where there are hackberry trees that are thin or nearly dead. Some of these are 30" diameter and 80 ft tall mature trees. No other type of tree is showing any new distress where I treated (except the dutch elm and bur oak blight that was already there before I did anything). Anyone seen problems like this? These large trees are usually late to leaf out, but July? I think we have a problem. There are similar trees nearby where I didn't treat and they look fine, so pretty sure I did this. I wonder if they will pull through it. Drought now isn't helping.

 

[SimpleScott]

I don't think those species are closely related so I don't anticipate them grafting roots. Was there a significant change in the amount of sunlight reaching the dripline / rooting area?

 

[Raintree]

The label warns about using Tordon in the vicinity of desirable trees. Did you paint or spray?

 

[lindnova]

I don't think those species are closely related so I don't anticipate them grafting roots. Was there a significant change in the amount of sunlight reaching the dripline / rooting area?

Yes the understory is opened up significantly without all the buckthorn.

 

[lindnova]

The label warns about using Tordon in the vicinity of desirable trees. Did you paint or spray?

Painted only.

 

[SimpleScott]

Yes the understory is opened up significantly without all the buckthorn.

I haven't had much experience with Celtis other than the younger trees we've planted but are they known to have roots sensitive to changes in soil temperatures? I know native Betula species are quite sensitive in that way

 

[Raintree]

Treated stumps 360⁰ around the declining trees?

 

[lindnova]

Treated stumps 360⁰ around the declining trees?

Yes. Random wherever the buckthorn was but generally the more stumps around them the worse they are.

 

[Raintree]

Not much you can do at this point. It's why it's so important to read and understand labels. Tordon is a good tool when used properly. I would give the trees until next spring before deciding what to do with them.

 

[lindnova]

Thanks for the replies. I will definitely wait it out. I don’t usually cut trees in distress until they are all dead. We have 60 acres of woods. The elms grow and die and we have some bur oak blight that isn’t always fatal until it is. I think I have some oak wilt starting on pin oaks in the same area as we had years ago. Tough year. Haven’t seen pin oaks dying since a flare up in the early 90’s for a year then it went away after killing a large swath of trees.
I know some of these hackberries are hollow and still habitat and some might end up using for lumber if dead.

 

[ATH]

Late to the party...but yeah, Tordon certainly moves in the soil. I use plenty of Tordon...but only here and there, not quarts per acre. If I need that, I switch to Garlon

 

[axeman088]

I agree with ATH . Tordon definitely moves in the soil if used too much . If I use it on a small stump cut I make sure the stump cut is level and use the herbicide sparingly using a small brush and make sure it doesn't drip down the side of the stump. If I need to poison a large standing tree I use the injection method using a drill to make a slanted hole in the stem and then put the herbicide in the hole with a squirt bottle. I haven't tried the axe frill type of poisoning using a spray bottle but I am sure that works also.

I also found out the hard way about how Tordon can move through the soil . Luckily the neighboring trees or I should say bushes that died weren't that valuable.

 

[lindnova]

I'll be honest I wasn't very careful about dribbling too much here and there as I have used Tordon the same for years and never had a problem around other tree types. I will be using glyphosphate to treat stumps next time I am near hackberry.

Could be worse. I am really glad I did not use it near our 500+ year old record bur oak - I decided to keep mowing for maintenance there when I cleared out. I also chose not to treat the walnut stumps I am thinning in a seeded hardwood CRP. I asked our forester about using it on the stumps and he thought it would be ok. I am pretty cautious and decided against treating as the walnut roots certainly are grafted in close quarters - then went nuts in the woods and prairie clearing.....

I am sad that my favorite deer hunting woods will have good clear site for a year and then the undergrowth is going to come back with a vengence without the canopy shade. The same area has lost a few oaks and a lot of elms in the last few years (before I did any treating). Maybe I will cleanout and plant a mixed grove of hardwoods there for the next generation to enjoy. I have other areas I am trying to reestablish young bur and white oaks. They are disappearing and not regenerating very well here. We get 30 years of brush, then the box elder and cherries take over, then maybe oaks start to filter in, but the buckthorn is trouble for everything. So much work and diligence to keep up on clearing around them and maintain the grow tubes and like this year I am hauling water in dry spells. I am just doing a few areas that I can handle for now.

 

[jacrider]

@lindnova : Wondering if you have an update a year later?

I am researching how to deal with a buckthorn infestation and have seen many recommendations that to effectively deal with mature trees to keep them from sprouting new growth, I will need to use a herbicide.

Thanks.

 

[Bill G]

@lindnova : Wondering if you have an update a year later?

I am researching how to deal with a buckthorn infestation and have seen many recommendations that to effectively deal with mature trees to keep them from sprouting new growth, I will need to use a herbicide.

Thanks.

Tordon is the best option on cut stumps. You will not have regrowth issues.

 

[AnniesDad]

Tordon is the best option on cut stumps. You will not have regrowth issues.

Except it might also kill nearby woody plants including trees

 

[Bill G]

Except it might also kill nearby woody plants including trees

Well I have never had an issue with it killing not intended items. I see many folks use it improperly. Any herbicide used improperly can have unintended results.

 

[Bill G]

So how has the situation worked out?

 

[esean]

I like triclopyr 3 (Garlon 3) diluted 50/50 with water for cut-stump treatment. It's not absorbed through soil or translocated through root grafts to nearby plants.

 

[Bill G]

I like triclopyr 3 (Garlon 3) diluted 50/50 with water for cut-stump treatment. It's not absorbed through soil or translocated through root grafts to nearby plants.

How well has it worked over a long period?