Sorry, haven't checked forum in a while. Triclopyr has killed every woody plant I've used it on, including privet, autumn olive, bush honeysuckle, red maple, japanese barberry and burning bush. Its definitely more effective than glyphosate. I don't have buckthorn here, but I'm guessing its listed for that too.
Treated buckthorn stumps with Tordon now nearby hackberries dying
- Thread starter lindnova
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Have had great results with triclopyr and glyphosate for cut stump treatment. Neither translocate in soil.
ALL herbicides applied to the soil will translocate. Some do what is called "adsorbed", which means that the herbicide becomes attached to soil particles in some way, and don't move around as much as others. The type of soil you have makes a big difference too. Highly organic soils generally hold on to herbicides better than sandy soil.
I'm not aware of any herbicides that are translocated through root grafting. If anybody has some hard information on that, I'd like to read it. It seems plausible, not not likely to be a problem. Diseases like oak wilt, however, are a definite problem. But that is because the pathogen is replicated in the new plant to become a disease.
Herbicide translocation through root grafts would require a massive transfer in order to be damaging to the receptive plant.
Most of the time when people think the herbicide has been translocated by water, root grafts, whatever, I think it is more often due to the fact that they just don't realize how far trees send out their little root fibers that do the absorption.
All herbicides when used improperly can have issues. When used properly they are a safe and effective method of undesirable plant growth.
I can remember watching a video a while back. In a grove of ailanthus trees they cut a high stump. Clamped a container of dye over the stump. Over time the dye was staining the sap wood of adjacent trees.
It might have been a fungicide study, can't recall.
It might have been a fungicide study, can't recall.
I would love to see that video
Conceivably. But that doesn't sound like a fair test. If you clamped a bottle of Tordon 22k herbicide to that stump, I'll bet every tree downstream would be dead for at least a 100'. Maybe further.
After thinking further about that video, it's been a while. I believe they were studying root grafting of the grove. The idea was to introduce a biological pathogen to control the invasive ailanthus. If I can remember correctly it might have been verticillium wilt.
There is a verticillium wilt that is pretty specific to Ailanthus. Verticillium nonalfalfae
Syflan
ArboristSite Operative
So that's what that stuff is!
Buckthorn and hackberry are not going to root graft so that method of transmission is not likely. Buckthorn (Rhamnus cathartica). Hackberry (Celtis occidentalis)
Buckthorn could possible leach tordon after they have died into the surrounding soil but with only 7 months between the application to the buckthorn and the noticed decline of the hackberry it is not likely.
My best guess is that the tordon applied to the buckthorn stumps was rain splashed or stump weeped into the surrounding soil and then absorbed from the soil by the hackberry root systems.
Hackberry root grafted to other hackberry could also be adding to the tordon load that each hackberry is seeing.
Over enthusiastic application of tordon to the buckthorn stumps could also be a factor.
Buckthorn could possible leach tordon after they have died into the surrounding soil but with only 7 months between the application to the buckthorn and the noticed decline of the hackberry it is not likely.
My best guess is that the tordon applied to the buckthorn stumps was rain splashed or stump weeped into the surrounding soil and then absorbed from the soil by the hackberry root systems.
Hackberry root grafted to other hackberry could also be adding to the tordon load that each hackberry is seeing.
Over enthusiastic application of tordon to the buckthorn stumps could also be a factor.
That has developed into a great idea. Where do we buy our buckthorn specific pathogens?
It is not at all uncommon to have stands where were Tordon was used and there is impact on off-target trees. Same stands, same applicator different herbicide= no off-target impacts observed. Over, and over, and over. It is not like people are using Tordon on rainy days and Garlon on dry days...or they use more of one than the other.
I agree it isn't likely root grafting (there is certainly natural grafting across genera, but not likely across families). But Tordon absolutely hits surrounding plants more than other herbicides.
Probably Garlon (triclopyr) or glyphosate....check the labels. I'm more in tune with removing grapevines from trees...
If you are talking about a vineyard removal of weed trees, I'd restrict that to glyphosate. Grapevines are too susceptible to the auxinic group of herbicides, of which Tordon and Tryclopyr are members.
"In Washington state, drift from grain growing regions to the east has been documented to have caused damage to vineyards along the Columbia River, 50 miles away from the point of application."
That being said, it seems that the more volatile of the auxins are causing the commonly observed drift problems with grapes.
"Grapevines are however several orders of magnitude more sensitive to injury from these products than other crops considered to be very sensitive such as tomatoes."
Basically: don't do it with Tordon or tryclopyr if you can avoid it."In Washington state, drift from grain growing regions to the east has been documented to have caused damage to vineyards along the Columbia River, 50 miles away from the point of application."
That being said, it seems that the more volatile of the auxins are causing the commonly observed drift problems with grapes.
