Tree Damage From Crop Spraying

[farmer steve]

Then there's this one...
View attachment 995750
A train accident caused a chemical tank car to fall into the Sacramento River, spilling 19,000 gallons of the herbicide metam sodium. The chemical impacts extended over 20 miles from the spill site to Lake Shasta.
https://wildlife.ca.gov/OSPR/NRDA/Cantara-Loop-Dunsmuir

I saw a program on that accident. I forget all the details but I do remember they were looking into building safer tank cars.

 

[Bill G]

I saw a program on that accident. I forget all the details but I do remember they were looking into building safer tank cars.

I am not against safety enhancements but sometimes accidents just occur. You cannot nuclear proof everything but YOU can build it in the safest method available. I do not know the details of what happened nor do I care to look for them. One good thing that HOPEFULLY comes from accidents is education.

 

[ATH]

....How's your oak looking?

Finally made it back to check my oak yesterday.

New leaves look great!

 

[farmer steve]

Got another opinion today, this time from a local forestry company I called yesterday and emailed photos to.
This is part of the response:

"The larger trees should be more resistant to the chemical, and your conifers should not see much if any adverse effects. Unfortunately, that means your bushes and smaller trees (i.e. the azalea) will need to be monitored the most. Definitely do not eat any of the vegetables produced from plants that were sprayed. You may see the symptoms continue throughout the summer if not get worse."

I just called them to verify the bit about the veggies.
She said even though they are looking good, the chemical is still in the plant and they definitely recommend NOT eating anything they produce.
If that's the case, I'm jerking them out - along with removing all that top soil in there that came from the containers. Also going to have to get rid of that beautiful spaghetti squash and the volunteer cuke.

Guess I'll be buying my veggies at the farmer's market this year.... which is nothing new.
I was just really hoping this year would be a good one for the garden.
Oh well.

That sucks about the veggies. I didn't research plant back restrictions on 2,4D but if I recall about 4 months for most veggies. I'll check my Penn state veggie handbook to see what it says.

 

[farmer steve]

Got another opinion today, this time from a local forestry company I called yesterday and emailed photos to.
This is part of the response:

"The larger trees should be more resistant to the chemical, and your conifers should not see much if any adverse effects. Unfortunately, that means your bushes and smaller trees (i.e. the azalea) will need to be monitored the most. Definitely do not eat any of the vegetables produced from plants that were sprayed. You may see the symptoms continue throughout the summer if not get worse."

I just called them to verify the bit about the veggies.
She said even though they are looking good, the chemical is still in the plant and they definitely recommend NOT eating anything they produce.
If that's the case, I'm jerking them out - along with removing all that top soil in there that came from the containers. Also going to have to get rid of that beautiful spaghetti squash and the volunteer cuke.

Guess I'll be buying my veggies at the farmer's market this year.... which is nothing new.
I was just really hoping this year would be a good one for the garden.
Oh well.

Checked my book. Plant back is 3 months for all veggies except sweet corn

 

[mar5690]

Checked my book. Plant back is 3 months for all veggies except sweet corn

that would be from a direct application not from minor drift

 

[Bill G]

I just called them to verify the bit about the veggies.
She said even though they are looking good, the chemical is still in the plant and they definitely recommend NOT eating anything they produce.

I sure hope you do not eat anything with Heinz ketchup then

 

[Bill G]

I'll bite - Why not?

Well if what you were told is true then I certainly hope you do not use any Ketchup or tomato based commercial Heinz products as I will assure you they are sprayed just like most other fruit and vegetable crops. The tomatoes I know well

 

[farmer steve]

that would be from a direct application not from minor drift

Yes correct. But we don't know the degree of drift on huggers soil.

 

[farmer steve]

So, it looks like 2 years ago they came out with a new 2-4-D choline salt they say is safe to use in fruit orchards
https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/new-2...-safety-for-berries-tree-fruit-nut-tree-crops

Not familiar with that one but it is not sprayed on the fruit. Just the floor of the orchard for weed control. I'll have to look that label up

 

[Bill G]

And, here we have fruit intentionally being sprayed with 2-4-D:

For mature grapefruit and Valencia orange trees, 2,4-D can be applied to reduce preharvest drop of mature fruit or as a dual-purpose spray (to reduce mature fruit drop and to improve fruit size for the next year's crop). 2,4-D can also be added to pesticide oil sprays to reduce leaf and fruit drop caused by the oil.
https://www2.ipm.ucanr.edu/agricult...apefruit and Valencia,drop caused by the oil.
What's the difference between that and the veggie plants in my yard?

Your starting to figure out a bit

 

[farmer steve]

Not familiar with that one but it is not sprayed on the fruit. Just the floor of the orchard for weed control. I'll have to look that label up

I didn't see you post about oranges. I guess if California approves it, it must be safe.

 

[Bill G]

Sprayed with what?

Well ya ever wonder why Ketchup is a nice deep red color? I assume you realize that tomatoes are an indeterminate plant right?

 

[Bill G]

I didn't see you post about oranges. I guess if California approves it, it must be safe.

Must be as nothing is approved for use in California

 

[Mad Professor]

Well if what you were told is true then I certainly hope you do not use any Ketchup or tomato based commercial Heinz products as I will assure you they are sprayed just like most other fruit and vegetable crops. The tomatoes I know well

I stopped buying all Mz Heinz 57 products long ago.

 

[farmer steve]

Well ya ever wonder why Ketchup is a nice deep red color? I assume you realize that tomatoes are an indeterminate plant right?

Not all of them Bill. Most of mine are dertiminate except the grape tomatoes. Big boy,beefsteak and betterboy to name a few are inderminate. IIRC most of the heinz seeds I looked at over the years were determinant. That being said I have a friend that grows tomatoes for the local cannery and I saw a tractor trailer load one time and makes you think twice about eating ketchup.

 

[Mad Professor]

Why, oh why, is it so difficult for you to answer a simple question? Do you not realize how frustrating it is to try to converse with someone like that? Or do you do it intentionally?

I'll try again:

Not sure what @Bill G is refering to but commercial maters get a ton of fungicides sprayed on them.

Only OG stuff I know of is copper based.

I grow my own maters and use copper if there is weather that will encourage blights. PITA as it is preventative only and washes off easy

 

[Mad Professor]

Why is that?
And what's the difference between "determinant" and indeterminant?" What does that mean?

The way they grow and fruit. Deternimant are more compact and reach a certain size, tend to produce fruits over a short period. Indeterminant plants continue to grow almost like vines and produce fruits until frost kills them.

 

[farmer steve]

Why is that?
And what's the difference between "determinant" and indeterminant?" What does that mean?

Dertiminate plants ony grow to a certain height. Indeterminate are more sprawling and can grow 6 feet or more. They determinate are much easier to grow because of the plant size.The tomatoes my friend and probably all big growers are piced with a machine. Pretty much every tomato in the field is picked. The good and bad. I personally thought what I saw on his trailer were pretty nasty. I do know they have high tech sorting machines nowadays but I don't think they are 100% accurate. Some of mine from years past.

 

[farmer steve]

And this article about tomato damage from 2-4-D exposure:

"Plants exposed to herbicides cannot be cured. As indicated, plants that do not die due to the exposure may grow out of the injury, but production may still be affected, and fruit should not be sold or consumed. Thus, the best management methods involve production and pest management practices that reduce the chance of herbicide exposure."
http://extension.msstate.edu/publications/herbicide-damage-tomatoes

Good article. Another story. A Mennonite produce farmer bought hay to feed his cows. He then spread the cow manure on his fields. The next spring he planted tomatoes. A few weeks later they started to die. Extension office was called and they determined it was herbicide injury. They traced it back to the herbicide that was sprayed on the hay field and it passed through the cow and into the manure and was the taken up by the tomato plants. After I heard that I always checked with any hay producer I was buying hay from to find out if it was sprayed. 2,4D is not one of the herbicides that is that persistent.