Tree Damage From Crop Spraying

[Bill G]

You've been farming since you were a puppy, haven't you?

Pretty much, that is the way it was here. Filling storage tanks for dad while he was spraying, picking tomatoes, plowing, cutting brush, most starting about age 5

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Any opinions, on a bad China batch of herbicide? Remember the stuff they sold as pet food? Chi-Coms don't give a damm.......

Depending on manufacturing method/conditions 2,4,5-T and Dioxins could be by-products. That is just by-products, not what was/could be actually in the brew. Right now I don't even think it's even known what was applied? Don't let me scare/be an alarmist.

You'd need to take samples, extract and analyze. GC/MS would do. That would take a scientist, a lab, funds, and equipment.

No Ag business near me and my place I only use OG approved materials............

You know, and you would probably be the only one besides me commenting in this thread to appreciate this, and funny you should mention "China" today, but the timing of the watering conversation yesterday made me think about Ivermectin and the long-term effects of 24D on a tree made me think about covid a couple days ago. I see definite similarities and "coincidences."

 

[TNTreeHugger]

OH, and you know what else just this second occurred to me??

24D ester is up for it's 15 year review this year?... it's a "less desirable" herbicide farmers won't buy when given the choice?.... this year there's a "shortage" of the preferred 24D and farmers are forced to buy the garbage that the retailers are likely choking in inventory on?...

What better time to force-dump your unsellable inventory, and sell it at an inflated price, in a year when prices on everything else is inflated, knowing full well your products registration could soon be pulled by the EPA?

I know I tend to lean towards "conspiracy theories" but these are Facts we're talking about here, provable facts.
There's no way all of this could simply be "coincidence."

 

[pdqdl]

AND YOU WERE WRONG. Just like you were wrong about the sawzall.
And thank G0d I didn't listen to you, since you knew not what you were talking about.

The watering advice is for later on down the road, if there is insufficient rain, like now since we've had extreme heat and zero rain and the grass is crunchy - NOT WHEN IT FIRST HAPPENS.
When it first happens, you can IMMEDIATELY wipe the leaves with a rag, but that is only effective for the first HOUR.
After that, watering should NOT be done, nor should fertilize be applied.

And you're a moderator? Always accusing others of being argumentative and disagreeable.
You've been waiting ever since I smacked you down about the sawzall to get your revenge, haven't you?
"...come to think of it..."
Keep waiting, Dude.

Smacked down about Sawzall? Y'er living in fantasy land.

You need to search out authorities you will believe and learn more about that watering issue, too. Your suggestion to wipe the leaves within the first hour for a volatilized herbicide exposure is completely invalid, as are the ridiculous statements by the farmer that the herbicide stays in place after it is sprayed.

As to me "Always accusing others of being argumentative and disagreeable", I'm afraid you'll have to quote me on that.

I'd suggest you leave moderation out of the conversation. As soon as you bring it up, you are criticising moderation, and that is not a permitted activity. 'Nuff said?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

It appears watering is not helping. And this is likely the reason why:

"2,4-D kills plants by causing the cells in the tissues that carry water and nutrients to divide and grow without stopping. Herbicides that act this way are called auxin-type herbicides."
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/24Dgen.html
This is my clove current that was damaged, as you can see from the still deformed "new growth."
I watered it yesterday for more than an hour and it's in a mostly shady area.
If the leaves were getting any benefit at all from the water, they would have perked up. And there is no change at all. The leaves are still dry, droopy, and stiff.




Btw, for those who missed this one:
https://pace.oregonstate.edu/courses/sites/default/files/resources/pdf/p0215-0219.pdf

 

[pdqdl]

I had a turf and ornamental applicators license for 20 years and we had to keep records of everything we sprayed, restricted use or not.

Says who? Who told you you are legally required to keep any such record of any herbicide that is not a restricted use? Who has asked you for those records. I got my first private pesticide license just about the the first year they were required. I was 16 and that was 1988. I got it as my father did not want to take the time away from work. I had no issue skipping school to go take a pesticide test. Not one single time have I ever been asked for any records of any pesticides applied whether it be restricted use or not. The simple fact is there are ZERO restrictions on the purchase and application of a non-restricted use herbicide (as long as you follow label directions) When you take your test they may try to tell you that there is but the simple fact is it is not required by law. Do you honestly think Jill Johnson buying Scotts weed and feed and applying it to her lawn is legally required to keep a record? When folks spray Ortho Liquid Sevin on their garden are they? The fact is 24D and Glyphosate are no restricted use herbicides, you do not need an applicator license to purchase or apply them and therefore are NOT subject to any rules outlined by the law governing restricted use pesticides. Have you ever been asked for ID to purchase them.

https://www.epa.gov/ingredients-used-pesticide-products/24-d

i am a commerical applicator and i have to keep all application records for two yrs and my records are inspected 4 times a yr by the state.

You guys are not quite resolving the question here, as you are arguing about two different things. There are no requirements for recording the use of herbicides by a private individual on their own property. For that matter, none for a private individual for someone else's property, providing it is not a service done for hire.

If, however, any application is done under the auspices of a license granted by the state, records of said application must be retained and made available as required by that state's licensing agreement. I think Missouri requires records be kept for 3 years.

The obligation imposed by restricted use pesticides is that only licensed applicators can buy it, and presumably know how to read the label and use correctly. Of course, that comes with the obligation to keep records of these applications, as with all other applications made under the permissions granted with that license.

 

[pdqdl]

Here is some information. https://agr.georgia.gov/pesticides-faqs.aspx I do not have the time to do all the research but just the firsts 60 seconds sums it up well

You are right.

I followed your link, and it pulls up the Rules of Georgia Pesticide Use and Application Act of 1976. Every reference in that act did seem to limit the authority granted to "restricted use" pesticides, so I think you are absolutely correct on that point for the State of Georgia, unless there has been an expansion of that act since 1976.

That being said, you probably should know that most other states limit the use of ALL pesticides if it is done for hire, as part of your employment, or for use on a farm. Whether or not they are restricted use pesticides.

 

[pdqdl]

It appears watering is not helping. And this is likely the reason why:

"2,4-D kills plants by causing the cells in the tissues that carry water and nutrients to divide and grow without stopping. Herbicides that act this way are called auxin-type herbicides."
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/24Dgen.html
This is my clove current that was damaged, as you can see from the still deformed "new growth."
I watered it yesterday for more than an hour and it's in a mostly shady area.
If the leaves were getting any benefit at all from the water, they would have perked up. And there is no change at all. The leaves are still dry, droopy, and stiff.

View attachment 998249View attachment 998250View attachment 998251


Btw, for those who missed this one:
https://pace.oregonstate.edu/courses/sites/default/files/resources/pdf/p0215-0219.pdf

By all means stop, then. After all, you didn't vet those State employees that gave you that advice, either, did you?

 

[pdqdl]

Not at all. Keep it clean and you can pile it on all you wish.

I don't doubt, however, that you would only offer a bandaid for the sole purpose of gleefully tearing it off again. You seem to have a sadistic side to your prose.

Your negative commentary only defames yourself, not me. I was just trying to point out how fickle you are, and how unwilling you are to accept anything that conflicts with your preconceived notions. I'd explain it all to you, step by step, but you'd just heap scorn on me again.

 

[pdqdl]

Is this the right one?
https://ordspub.epa.gov/ords/pesticides/f?p=CHEMICALSEARCH:3::::21,3,31,7,12,25:p3_XCHEMICAL_ID:394
I know what the 24D stands for, and the ester, but what does the LV6 represent?

I'll bet you don't know what the 2,4-D stands for.
I'd answer your question, but I clearly don't have the bonafides to provide an answer you would accept.

Ask Mad Professor. I'll guarantee he knows all about IUPAC nomenclature.

 

[kyle1!]

The smell of 24D is in the air here. I don't think I have ever smelled it so strong in my area of corn/soy before. Keep your nuns, puppies and children inside.

 

[farmer steve]

They are in TN, as far as I know. When there is an incident like what happened to me, they gather that data from the farmers and gawd help hem if they don't have it.

You guys have been busy. Like @ATH said. Commercial applicators need to keep records. These laws may vary from state to state for a private applicator. I need to keep records just for restricted use chemicals but not for things like roundup that anyone can buy. As far as watering I think at this point you may be doing more harm than good. Just checked. My Penn state book lists 2,4-D as having a 6 hour rain free requirement for the herbicide to be effective so if you would have known, hosing the plants down may have saved some.

 

[ATpro]

Says the people who can yank your application license. You also have to show proof of insurance to renew your license. It's the law when you do it for pay. Georgia pest control applicants must be at least 18 years old with a high school diploma or GED.

Licensed applicators have to keep records of every application, restricted use or not. That's how it is in Georgia and how it was in Delaware when I lived there.

That's the way it is in Alabama also.

 

[pdqdl]

In Missouri and Kansas, the State agents wander around town looking for guys with backpack sprayers on a commercial property. Then they ask the guy for his applicator's license, even if it is just roundup weed control along a curb line.

It goes without saying that a visit to the office ensues shortly thereafter for the paperwork check.

 

[ATpro]

Y'all forget 2,4-D stays active in the soil so that half of the original amount is gone in 1-14 days. This means washing it off the plant may just put it in the soil to still do damage.

 

[pdqdl]

... when it volatilized, and when it descended onto my property,

There isn't really any "descended" component to volatilized herbicides. It isn't the same as spray drift. Now as part of an inversion, that descended observation occurs of course, but only as part of the air mass that the plant is being "gassed" by.

 

[pdqdl]

At this point, the purpose of the watering is to just help out the plants recovery. Fewer of the limited plant resources are expended on maintaining the water balance if water is readily available. Think chicken soup for the ill. It ain't like penicillin, so more water in your plant's diet won't be curative, either.

As to washing the herbicide into the soil, that wasn't really a factor worthy of concern, either. If your plants had been directly sprayed, that would be a bigger issue.

 

[Bill G]

You guys are not quite resolving the question here, as you are arguing about two different things. There are no requirements for recording the use of herbicides by a private individual on their own property. For that matter, none for a private individual for someone else's property, providing it is not a service done for hire.

If, however, any application is done under the auspices of a license granted by the state, records of said application must be retained and made available as required by that state's licensing agreement. I think Missouri requires records be kept for 3 years.

The obligation imposed by restricted use pesticides is that only licensed applicators can buy it, and presumably know how to read the label and use correctly. Of course, that comes with the obligation to keep records of these applications, as with all other applications made under the permissions granted with that license.

What you say is for the most part sums up what I have said but some still want to argue with.

You say.... There are no requirements for recording the use of herbicides by a private individual on their own property. For that matter, none for a private individual for someone else's property, providing it is not a service done for hire..................

That is at least partially correct and possibly 100% correct. It is 100% correct for NON_RESTRICTED use herbicides PERIOD. There are ZERO recording requirements, no ID is needed, that are NOT RESTRCTED, nor regulated beyond label directions.. As for private or commercial it is a mute point. I have asked the OP many times to be certain it was a private applicator and she has assured us with 100% certainty it was. The ends the recording requirement period.

We are discussing a private individual applying a non-restricted use herbicide on ground he or she owns, rents or lease. There simply are no recording requirements. I ask those folks that think there is then why don't the retailers ask for your ID or applicator license when purchasing a non-restricted use item?

 

[Bill G]

..................... I need to keep records just for restricted use chemicals but not for things like roundup that anyone can buy.

The entire point I was trying to make but folks still argue with

 

[Bill G]

Did he or she apply a restricted use herbicide on any land that required the possession of a commercial applicators license