Tree Damage From Crop Spraying

[pdqdl]

Look up any known herbicide health issues by reading the product label. There will also be an MSDS for each herbicide, but the label includes more information on exposure controls and re-entry instructions for treated areas.

I'll post 'em when I find 'em.

 

[pdqdl]

So far, I've found 31 products labeled for use in Tennessee that are just Dicamba. Mixtures with other herbicides are too many to track.

Do your herbicide searches on CDMS, by the way.
https://www.cdms.net/Label-Database/Advanced-Search#Result-products

 

[Raintree]

The injury doesn't look to be at a level where as you will suffer loss. However if it were my plants I would not be happy.

 

[pdqdl]

The product label is kinda complicated for me to download right now; not sure why.
What I've read suggests only the common "caution" exposure controls. It apparently is a bit more toxic than the average herbicide (probably due to the carrier solvent), on account of requiring butyl or nitrile rubber gloves thicker than 14mils, but only requires shoes & socks (As opposed to rubber boots. To me that makes no sense). The limit for worker re-entry after treatment is 24 hours (longer than I usually see on a label), so that also suggests a bit higher risk of exposure to the herbicide.

So... It's not a good idea to take a bath in the stuff. Looking up the MSDS now...

 

[pdqdl]

Ok! Look here for the Drexel Dicamba product literature.
https://www.agrian.com/labelcenter/results.cfm?skin=Drexel&company_id=50&show_product=14299
Keep in mind that most Dicamba products will have similar labels.

Important to know about labels: npic.orst.edu/factsheets/signalwords.pdf

As to toxicity, it's pretty mild. Poisonous stuff is rated according to it's LD50, the Lethal Dose for 50% of a population, usually rats.
For Dicamba, it is

Acute Toxicity:​

Ingestion: LD50, Rat: 2,629 mg/kg​

Dermal (rat): LD50, Rat: >2,000 mg/kg​

Carcinogenicity: Not likely to be carcinogenic in humans​

Aspirin, by comparison is 200mg/kg, about 10 times as toxic as Dicamba.
Ibuprofen comes in at 636mg/kg, about 3 times safer than aspirin for death by acute poisoning, but close to 4x more lethal than Dicamba.

You need to remember that herbicides are intended to kill plants, not animals. Consequently the lethal doses for plants (with a herbicide) are vastly smaller than for mammals. Also, none of the information I included here discusses chronic or repeated exposure. I have no idea if this stuff has cumulative effects, although I believe it would be mentioned if it were a known factor.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Well, that is at least some good news on the low toxicity to mammals.
It's only decimated everything green in my yard that I've cultivated, hand-sculpted, and cared for for almost 30 years.
I can't tell you how sick I am over this. This treehugger is completely devastated.
I sincerely appreciate all the input from you guys.

So, just to verify, it looks like y'all are in agreement; this is definitely some kind of -icide damage?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Ok! Look here for the Drexel Dicamba product literature.
https://www.agrian.com/labelcenter/results.cfm?skin=Drexel&company_id=50&show_product=14299
Keep in mind that most Dicamba products will have similar labels.

Important to know about labels: npic.orst.edu/factsheets/signalwords.pdf

As to toxicity, it's pretty mild. Poisonous stuff is rated according to it's LD50, the Lethal Dose for 50% of a population, usually rats.
For Dicamba, it is

Acute Toxicity:​

Ingestion: LD50, Rat: 2,629 mg/kg​

Dermal (rat): LD50, Rat: >2,000 mg/kg​

Carcinogenicity: Not likely to be carcinogenic in humans​

Aspirin, by comparison is 200mg/kg, about 10 times as toxic as Dicamba.
Ibuprofen comes in at 636mg/kg, about 3 times safer than aspirin for death by acute poisoning, but close to 4x more lethal than Dicamba.

You need to remember that herbicides are intended to kill plants, not animals. Consequently the lethal doses for plants (with a herbicide) are vastly smaller than for mammals. Also, none of the information I included here discusses chronic or repeated exposure. I have no idea if this stuff has cumulative effects, although I believe it would be mentioned if it were a known factor.

Thanks for digging up all the links.
It says No fed. regulation, No posting required. Is this the same chemical that was pulled off the marker two years ago?

Oh, but when you select crop specific, "soy beans" are not on the list... "fallow land soybean" what's that?

 

[pdqdl]

Actually, I have a reason for the greater interest in this stuff.

Many of my customers pay me for brush and tree control. I normally use triclopyr or picloram, and your accidental injury by Dicamba suggests that it might be a great addition to my brush control sprays. Upon reading the label, I find that it includes right-of-way treatments, so I'm good to use it!

Furthermore, most of the chemicals I use are cheaper according to how much of the stuff is made at the manufacturer. Anything used to spray millions of acres of soybeans isn't likely to be as expensive as the stuff that is packaged in one ounce bottles to cover one acre. So... I'm gonna call up the farm store and see if I can get me some cheap dicamba. Tordon 22k has been real hard for me to get recently, and the triclopyr is kinda pricey, too.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Oh. And take a gander at the list of "pests"
https://www.cdms.net/Label-Database/Advanced-Search#Result-product/16115Blackberry, cottonwood, grape, honeysuckle, pine, poplar, sassafras, cedar, dogwood, maple, multiflora rose, oak, buckeye, cherry, clover, hickory...
Everything in my yard.

Haven't looked at the mimosa, dogwood, plum, and Bradford pear near the road... headed that way, with a box of tissues in hand.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Actually, I have a reason for the greater interest in this stuff.

Many of my customers pay me for brush and tree control. I normally use triclopyr or picloram, and your accidental injury by Dicamba suggests that it might be a great addition to my brush control sprays. Upon reading the label, I find that it includes right-of-way treatments, so I'm good to use it!

Furthermore, most of the chemicals I use are cheaper according to how much of the stuff is made at the manufacturer. Anything used to spray millions of acres of soybeans isn't likely to be as expensive as the stuff that is packaged in one ounce bottles to cover one acre. So... I'm gonna call up the farm store and see if I can get me some cheap dicamba. Tordon 22k has been real hard for me to get recently, and the triclopyr is kinda pricey, too.

Well, thanks anyway.

 

[pdqdl]

...

So, just to verify, it looks like y'all are in agreement; this is definitely some kind of -icide damage?

I don't think there is much doubt about it. None in my mind, at least not since you put up the better pictures.

You may recall that I suggested to look at all your plants, not just a few plants. You looked, you found, and I'd call it a done deal. You've been volatilized.

Take more pictures. Be sure to include lots of "whole plant" photos. Closeups of crippled leaves aren't as convincing about damages as entirely green (but curling up) plants, and then comparing to the dead-as-a-hammer pictures for the ones that didn't make it.

 

[pdqdl]

Thanks for digging up all the links.
It says No fed. regulation, No posting required. Is this the same chemical that was pulled off the marker two years ago?

Oh, but when you select crop specific, "soy beans" are not on the list... "fallow land soybean" what's that?

I believe that the fallow land soybean reference would be a "pre-plant" application. No crop actively present. There might be a special definition for that in farmer-lingo that I don't know.

I'm not sure about the "no posting required", as I didn't read close enough to notice that text. As I recall from other labels, that is probably part of the worker re-entry requirements, so that no one will enter a dangerous area without seeing a notice. So... Spray it and run. No posting required. Or so I think without checking up on the facts.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Add to the list... dogwood, azalea, nandina, pear, pecan, holly (maybe), mimosa, and weigela.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I took this photo on 4/14 (posted in the weather thread) looks like I had just mowed. I mowed on the 4th, so again 10 days later would have been about right.
Dogwood is blooming, poplars (far left) and maples (center) have leaves, oaks look like just beginning to leaf out and buckeye (far right) has buds. Looks like the pears (in line with the dogwood) have leaves also. They would have been the first to bloom out.
Got the mower fixed 3/21, so the spraying was done after that.

 

[pdqdl]

...

As for more accidents there are a lot all over the country. In nearly EVERY case it is the fault of the angry, impatient vehicle driver. Take a look at how many accidents are caused by illegal passing of equipment or passing while a machine is turning left.
...

Yes, you got that right.

I personally got run down by a car while doing roadside mowing for the city. I had flashers on. Right in front of a fire station, I needed to do a U-turn, so I turned on my left turn indicator, got in the left lane, and started my turn. SSSCRREEEEEEETTCH.....THUMP. (he could have passed me on the open lane to the right, too)
Now the car that was trying to pass me barely disturbed my 7 ton tractor, and it didn't do too much damage to his front end. It did deploy his air-bag, which knocked him out totally. According to the cop that followed his unconscious body to the hospital, he didn't wake up for an additional 45 minutes.

A crowd of firemen were playing checkers in the driveway at the time. They pretended they didn't see or hear a thing, despite the brakes and crash in front of their open garage doors 50 feet away. I tried talking to the driver, but he was slumped down in his seat not moving at all (he was breathing, though). Since the collision was so minor, I thought he was faking it. I didn't know about the air bags, back then.

So I walked calmly over to the firemen, who kinda were trying to ignore me. I said, "You know guys, we just had a wreck out front". Their eyes were all averted, looking away from me. "You might want to check out the other driver, too. I think he's faking it, but he's not moving at all".

Those were the magic words! Those firemen all LEAPED into action. Within 15 seconds they had their emergency kit sprinted out to visit the unconscious driver, the ambulance was summoned, and the guy was getting help. I've had mixed feelings about the fire-guys ever since then. They are good to have around, but not necessarily involved with the public interactions until they are called upon.

 

[ColinNS]

Looks like 2-4-D damage to me. I have one on my lawn that I got a little close to when spraying for weeds. It curld the top up, lots of spots on the leaves. Looked like **** doe that year but now it is fine, even the bad curl has straightened out.

 

[Raintree]

I'm trying hard not to look at your topped maple. Your dog seems happy.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I'm trying hard not to look at your topped maple. Your dog seems happy.

Yes, I know. That was part of the work I paid $2k for back in Jan. when the holly tree was laid over on the roof of the farmhouse due to an ice/snow storm.
There were three I asked him about, those two maples and a pecan next to the barn. They were tall and leggy and the twin of the pecan fell over on the house about 20 years ago and I didn't want a repeat.
He assured me they would be okay.
I have my doubts and am afraid I made a mistake having him trim them back. At least they are leafing out. We'll see.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Looks like 2-4-D damage to me. I have one on my lawn that I got a little close to when spraying for weeds. It curld the top up, lots of spots on the leaves. Looked like **** doe that year but now it is fine, even the bad curl has straightened out.

The "pest" list I posted last night was for the herbicide Dicamba/2-4-D combo.
Both the friend who mentioned past law suits in the area and another who currently works for a sod farmer have mentioned the use of 2-4-D.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I had a bad night, totally devastated by this. But I decided to listen to my rabbi before I went to bed and the lesson just happened to be on endurance. It was exactly the encouragement I needed to put on my big girl panties and solve the problem. TY Rabbi.

This morning I've got my notebook for documentation started. Going to map out and inventory everything damaged in the yard, including measurements and approx.. age. For possible replacement purposes. Going to try to determine the value of the trees and cost of replacement if necessary.
Hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.

Question: How do you determine the height of a tree by looking at it? Pretty sure you measure the circumference chest-high, right?

Also, trying to recall the name of the arborist I called a few years ago about the holly tree, want to have his opinion on the damage. I found someone on the forestry dept. web site, but not sure if his qualifications apply to this situation. This is what it says:
Affiliations:
• Accredited American Tree Farm System Inspector
• NRCS Technical Service Provider
• Society Of American Foresters Member
Services
• Damage or Trespass Assessments
• Environmental Impact Studies
• Timber & Land Appraisals/Taxation/Real Estate
• Forest Management Planning and Greenbelt
• Timber Inventory
• Timber Stand Improvement
• Timber Sale Administration
• Tree Planting and Site Preparation
• Urban Forestry


Any other suggestions on how to proceed?