tree workers inured by rope entering chipper

[TheJollyLogger]

Trust me, a brake would not be all that hard or overly expensive to setup on a chipper. I know how chippers work, I used to do repairs to several Veneer brand, 6-10" units.

It would not explode and would stop it in 5-8 seconds.

I'm not saying that it would have stopped this accident from not happening, but I bet it would stop many! Maybe a guy looses a hand instead of his whole arm or whole body.

Nice thought, but sorry, wouldn't make a difference. I've seen a rope get sucked into a chipper, and it is over before you know it. The lesson is never ever let a rope get close to a chipper. Period.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Why do you think a brake would be ONLY something to stop a rope?

I realize you can't just stop the drum on a dime, but stopping it much faster than it just spooling down on it's own would certainly help!

I am thinking overall at ALL injuries.

You know years ago people thought seat belts were stupid too, most of them got cut out. Now I'd bet 95% of drivers use seatbelts, and not just because it's the law.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Why do you think a brake would be ONLY something to stop a rope?

I realize you can't just stop the drum on a dime, but stopping it much faster than it just spooling down on it's own would certainly help!

I am thinking overall at ALL injuries.

You know years ago people thought seat belts were stupid too, most of them got cut out. Now I'd bet 95% of drivers use seatbelts, and not just because it's the law.

I take it you don't have much chipper experience. Modern chippers are adorned with safeties to prevent a person from being drug in by a limb or branch. But if a rope is sucked into the drum or disc at over 100 mph, no safety mechanism in the world will help. It is over before you can even think to hit a safety. The only safety is to keep the ropes away from the chipper.

 

[derwoodii]

perhaps this exchange be a good new thread idea to work on and sort, allow others to offer up ideas and solutions share & learn.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I don't use a chipper in my line of work. I do logging and firewood processing.

The chippers I have worked on were 1980s-early 1990s models, nothing new. I did rent one last year, a Verneer and it didn't have anything other than a bar across the top to shut the feed and engine off. The drum took a good 45+ seconds to spool down still.

I'm quite certain I have said many times in this thread that I realize it would not stop a rope. Please read and understand that... for the 3rd or 4th time!

I take it you don't have much chipper experience. Modern chippers are adorned with safeties to prevent a person from being drug in by a limb or branch. But if a rope is sucked into the drum or disc at over 100 mph, no safety mechanism in the world will help. It is over before you can even think to hit a safety. The only safety is to keep the ropes away from the chipper.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Not really much to discuss, just keep all ropes away from the chipper. I hate to say it, but it really is that simple. No design that I can think of will keep a rope that is sucked into a chipper from suddenly getting wound up in the drum or disc, and in the blink of an eye whipping its length, along with whatever it might be tangled up in, right in to the chute.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Are you Texas boys all this slow in the head?

I know about the darn rope, I already said the same thing you are saying in about 5 posts now!

Not really much to discuss, just keep all ropes away from the chipper. I hate to say it, but it really is that simple. No design that I can think of will keep a rope that is sucked into a chipper from suddenly getting wound up in the drum or disc, and in the blink of an eye whipping its length, along with whatever it might be tangled up in, right in to the chute.

 

[eert]

The kill switch shuts the engine down, but the drum or disk will still be rotating for at least a minute. 200' of rope will go through the chipper in less than 1 second. If the rope was n front of you, and you knew it was going into the chipper, and you had the chainsaw at the ready, running at full speed, you still wouldn't have time to cut the rope. You wouldn't even have time to make the decision to cut the rope, the more likely scenario is that the rope would wrap around the bar and hopefully rip the saw out of your hands because f you didn't let go you'd be going with it. This is literally happening at the speed of a whip cracking.

There is no way to stop this event once the rope has entered the chipper, and there is no response possible. The kill switch, key, emergency stops, and roller stops/reversing the roller all have zero effect. For this reason, you need to be extremely vigilant about ropes near chippers, and also with winch cables,ropes and vines.

Shaun

Thanks for the clarification, this is very uneasy for me many years in the industry and i knew how dangerous it was to get rope in the chipper but never really thought about how very very very dangerous it really is. Can you tell me what you would do if you where the climber and then if you where the groundie, i mean i wanna be prepared.

 

[imagineero]

Thanks for the clarification, this is very uneasy for me many years in the industry and i knew how dangerous it was to get rope in the chipper but never really thought about how very very very dangerous it really is. Can you tell me what you would do if you where the climber and then if you where the groundie, i mean i wanna be prepared.

There really is nothing you can do once it has occured. The safety needs to happen before it ever gets to that point. As a climber, I'm vigilant about where the tail of my rope is. I generally try to haul it up and throw it somewhere far away from where the landing zone is so guys won't be getting it caught up in brush or cutting it. You can often throw it through a crotch somewhere, or over a fence or whatever. I've seen some guys with a pretty slick setup involving a rope bag/bucket, and a sling on the tree with a carabiner so the rope automatically pays into the bucket as you ascend. I've never tried it. I've got a bunch of ropes and try to climb on the shortest one possible which I think helps. On really big/tall trees, I'll often switch out to a shorter rope when I'm in the crown if I think I'm going to be there a long time with complex rigging, or I'll haul up and coil my tail and hang it somewhere near me. Makes it easier on the boys on the ground, which gets me out of the tree sooner, and all of us home earlier.

Same story with lowering ropes, I try to encourage the guys to be lowering from a point which is not in the lowering zone. It's safer for so many reasons, and it's also efficient because the branch isn't getting constantly snagged in the lowering rope. When using bigger/longer ropes like 7/8" on the drum we try to keep them flaked into a rope bin. Just keeps things tidy. Keeping ropes clear of the LZ means no time wasted hauling them out, which in turn means you wont be tempted to go cutting in there and accidentally cut through a rope either. I think good rope handling practices go a long way to increase efficiency and safety.

For most of the work that I do there isn't much hazard. We're generally far enough away from the chipper that rope getting into it isn't a possibility. We also run only a small crew - 3 or 4 guys on the ground at most on average days. Having a smaller crew makes things a little safer in my opinion. The most dangerous scenario in my opinion is the one where my buddy had his workers injured - rapid take downs with one or several climbers going at the same time, with the chipper in close proximity to the work site and limited working room so everything is chipped as you go, and a medium to large crew feeding a high capacity chipper. In that sort of environment, people are getting excited, branches flying everywhere, the chipper's running constantly so nobody can hear each other or communicate, and there might also be a couple saws going at the same time. Ropes are likely to be lying around, people are running to clear the LZ, and stuff is getting fed into the chipper as quick as it hits the ground. If you're in one of these high production crews, then this is a real risk for you. The high noise and lack of ability to communicate makes it doubly dangerous - you might see it about to happen, and not be able to yell loud enough to stop it.

As a climber, I'm always keeping my eye on the crew and the same comes back in return. We've got to all look out for each other - not to scream at a person the moment they've done something wrong, but because we're a team and we're looking out for each other. As a groundie, having good rope handling practices isn't an obvious thing. It's as subtle as where you stand, or how you swing a piece when landing it. Keeping the ropes tidy and out of the way, and identifying things before they're a hazard. This is one of those hazards where it's a case of being too late to do anything when it has already happened.

Shaun

 

[Castenea]

It would stop it faster than letting it just die down!

My friend has a dyno machine with 2000lb rollers that will do 150+mph if a car has enough power. It stops in 5-6 seconds from runnng wide open, nothing blows up.

Unfortunately 5-6 seconds is more than long enough for the Chipper to devour the entire length of rope. Very few of us use ropes longer than 200'. Some of the west coast guys may use 600' spools occasionally. Probably the fastest way on most chippers to stop them is to kill the engine and let compressive braking stop the cutter, this takes under a minute.

 

[isaaccarlson]

The longest rope I have is 200' and that is a rigging rope. I will have to get a longer one eventually. 90+ foot trees eat it up fast.

 

[StrataTree]

Trust me, a brake would not be all that hard or overly expensive to setup on a chipper. I know how chippers work, I used to do repairs to several Veneer brand, 6-10" units.

It would not explode and would stop it in 5-8 seconds.

I'm not saying that it would have stopped this accident from not happening, but I bet it would stop many! Maybe a guy looses a hand instead of his whole arm or whole body.

All over but the cryin after 5-8 seconds!!!

As others have said. And you already know.

Sorry to be beating a dead horse here...but "in the blink of an eye" actually means in the blink of an eye! In this case.

 

[stumper120]

Trust me, a brake would not be all that hard or overly expensive to setup on a chipper. I know how chippers work, I used to do repairs to several Veneer brand, 6-10" units.

It would not explode and would stop it in 5-8 seconds.

I'm not saying that it would have stopped this accident from not happening, but I bet it would stop many! Maybe a guy looses a hand instead of his whole arm or whole body.

sounds like your on your way to getting rich. im sure the engineers at bandit or Vermeer want what you know. if you stopped the drum or disk to fast on a large chipper it would probably come loose from the pillow blocks not only killing the groundie but the guy up in the tree

 

[tidy]

Like Shaun said this one of those hazards that most folks overlook very easily, if you rarely get the chance to get the chipper right up against a tree then you are likely oblivious to the fact it exists-like what happened to me a few months ago: I dragged a branch with a lowering rope entangled and tried to chip it-luckily the climber caught my attention with appropriate hand signals and all was good. I felt like an idiot for nearly causing a serious incident and a good lesson was learnt. There was also a guy decapitated in a nearby town somewhat recently due to this.

 

[zapblam]

SawStop table saw technology

 

[imagineero]

There's a difference in momentum between a blade weighing a few ounces and a disk weighing 1,000 pounds.

 

[lone wolf]

Have a man at the chipper when ever the feed wheels are engaged don't walk away unless they are stopped. Have a small top handle saw right with him cut the damn rope ASAP! Also two men should be at the chipper not one if you get in trouble the other guy can stop the feeders or reverse them . Been there done that!

 

[imagineero]

You obviously haven't been there or done that. Go back to the start of the thread, read it again, then edit your post to say something more intelligent.

 

[lone wolf]

You obviously haven't been there or done that. Go back to the start of the thread, read it again, then edit your post to say something more intelligent.

Don't tell me what I have done or not done! I already told you what I did in a similar situation! So cutting the rope would be unintelligent? Keeping a saw close for this situation is ignorant? Gave you all good advice but I really don't think I will bother talking to you anymore its a waste!

 

[philoshop]

Work on a fishing boat or a racing sailboat and you learn very quickly to always be aware of the ropes/lines. Granted it's nothing like a chipper, but mistakes can get unpleasant nonetheless. Training, focus and experience. There's no replay button.