tricky tree

[strangersfaces]

Can you put anything down to bridge the draw? Or a couple somethings then use them for cushion for this one? Can you drag it through something else to slow it down? Can you start it down hill then walk it around side hill? Snipe the stump and get a rolling slide going and let it twist it's way through some stuff to make a better lay?
........
Owl

Something like as demonstrated by "hotsaws101" is this video? Great viewing angle...

[youtube]EThx94ALoao&list=UUqt1Y1o8PLzt13pOm4TxBRQ&index=25[/youtube]​

.........

The bit Owl mentioned is referred to as the "soft dutchmen" really just a swing dutch with extra cuts for extra movement, you could even toss in a siswheel on the off side to get really crazy.
.....

Another, showing his Soft Dutchman technique:

[youtube]tbN1sKN7IlI[/youtube]​

 

[northmanlogging]

I wonder if that guy is a member here...

 

[strangersfaces]

......

Can you back slide on the stump? Conventional face on your lay side, keep it deep but skinny to break quick, and a humboldt on the back side. Then back into the matched cut on the back side in the humboldt. The angles should match up when the hinge breaks and slide on each other and some times you can gain as much as 30 of back slide. If you don't have enough ground in the lay sometimes this will extend this a bit to save as much as possible. Has to be an up hill lay for the best results, flat or side hill works just not as well. Think this through before you start, there will be no wedging or next to none, when you do this. I don't like it but it has it's place now and then. Be damned sure you can get out of the way, it will choose it's own way off the stump you don't usually get any say in that.

Owl

Although his cuts in this video aren't shown clearly and he does use wedges to start the fall, is the method shown in this Hotsaws101 video a possible alternative, assuming suitable landing area above?

[youtube]LLDEUZ6z7rE&lr=1[/youtube]​

 

[HuskStihl]

I wonder if that guy is a member here...

It ain't me, but I sure wish I had skills and balls like that. It might be mass wine guy, or maybe Dano.

 

[Spotted Owl]

Not me but he has some skills. Notice how far he put his saw away, so he didn't have to mess with it during his mad scramble? I'll have the boy help me and we'll look at some more of his stuff. Looks like good ground and good wood there two.

Are the others just as good as the last one, didn't look at them. Takes a while to load this stuff on our machine.

Owl

 

[treeslayer2003]

Something like as demonstrated by "hotsaws101" is this video? Great viewing angle...

[youtube]EThx94ALoao&list=UUqt1Y1o8PLzt13pOm4TxBRQ&index=25[/youtube]​

Another, showing his Soft Dutchman technique:

[youtube]tbN1sKN7IlI[/youtube]​

that worked slick, definatly learned sumn here,timber over there sure is tall. owl, it takes forever for me to load these clips too.

 

[northmanlogging]

Not me but he has some skills. Notice how far he put his saw away, so he didn't have to mess with it during his mad scramble? I'll have the boy help me and we'll look at some more of his stuff. Looks like good ground and good wood there two.

Are the others just as good as the last one, didn't look at them. Takes a while to load this stuff on our machine.

Owl

He's got a pile of vids on u-tube. all pretty good, doesn't show making the face cut often, but usually the results of backing it up.

 

[madhatte]

He IS a member here, though he doesn't post often. Damn fine fellow and damn fine cutter.

 

[OlympicYJ]

So when would you use a siswheel as opposed to a soft dutch?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[HuskStihl]

So when would you use a siswheel as opposed to a soft dutch?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I usually use a Dutchwheel, although a Soft Bay or Coos Sis would work as well

 

[OlympicYJ]

I worded my question wrong.

When would a siswheel be chosen over a soft dutch or a soft dutch over a sis?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[HuskStihl]

I worded my question wrong.

When would a siswheel be chosen over a soft dutch or a soft dutch over a sis?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

No you didn't, I was just being a prik. I'm curious about the answer too. I was funnin' 'cause I get confused by all the cut names. I know cutting the sides out of a heavy leaner before cutting the back can prevent a barberchair, but did not know this was a "Coos Bay". But now maybe it's not 'cause one of the posted diagrams (which always hurt my head) looked different. I have no idea what a siswheel even is. I know about "step" and "kerf" dutches, but not soft. I figure if I have no idea what it's called, what it does, or when to use it, I prolly have no business trying it on anything bigger than 6", and then just for fun

 

[bitzer]

A sizwheel is used when you need max holding wood and pull to one side. Soft dutch is used when you need the hinge wood not to break allowing it to stay on the stump longer which gives it more time for the top to come around. In hardwood you need a lot of room for a soft dutch as it comes around. I've used a full face dutch quite a bit. Usually to break the hinge quickly allowing the stem to roll through other tops.

Full face dutch- You don't need to go too deep with it and usually I gut out the heart wood. Not sure why I didn't here. I needed this ash to roll through some timber that wasn't going to be cut. The steep Humboldt will put the butt on the ground quickly. Usually you want a conventional face when throwing trees through standing timber though.

I've got pictures of all of these cuts if anyone is interested. Like I've said before. I take a lot of ####in pictures...

View attachment 293614

 

[OlympicYJ]

Thanks for the reply bitz. I'm still a little confused by your explanation though. So the sis gives more holding wood over the soft dutch and max swing? While the soft dutch has more time on the stump giving more or less swing than a sis?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[treeslayer2003]

A sizwheel is used when you need max holding wood and pull to one side. Soft dutch is used when you need the hinge wood not to break allowing it to stay on the stump longer which gives it more time for the top to come around. In hardwood you need a lot of room for a soft dutch as it comes around. I've used a full face dutch quite a bit. Usually to break the hinge quickly allowing the stem to roll through other tops.

Full face dutch- You don't need to go too deep with it and usually I gut out the heart wood. Not sure why I didn't here. I needed this ash to roll through some timber that wasn't going to be cut. The steep Humboldt will put the butt on the ground quickly. Usually you want a conventional face when throwing trees through standing timber though.

I've got pictures of all of these cuts if anyone is interested. Like I've said before. I take a lot of ####in pictures...

View attachment 293614

i'd love to see those pics, maybe then i'll know how to answer owl. couldn't cut ash here like that
it grows here in the swamp very brittle can hear it cracking putting in face.

 

[HuskStihl]

Hey Bitz, this is asking a lot, but I'd also love to see pictures with descriptions of the how and why. I do realize, however, that you may have better things to do with your free time:msp_thumbup:

 

[bitzer]

Thanks for the reply bitz. I'm still a little confused by your explanation though. So the sis gives more holding wood over the soft dutch and max swing? While the soft dutch has more time on the stump giving more or less swing than a sis?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

With the siz the holding wood is doing all the work. With the soft dutch the extra kerfs are helping with the movement and not putting as much strain on the holding wood.


I will get some pics up with the explanations I can give this week some time. I just got super busy with the ground drying up.

 

[tramp bushler]

Huh.
Not to argue Bitz ; but I disagree on the Saginaw face for falling timber thru timber. A Humbolt is safer. Helps keep the butt from coming back over the stump.

 

[tramp bushler]

Some of these diagrams must have been done up by a gubmint employee with a strong need to justify doodeling.

A lot of these descriptions are at times maybe a good idea. But none of them are a garrentee none of them are worth a hoot if you don't have a sharp straight cutting saw.

IMO. Most falling is best accomplished with a standard humbolt face and a standard back cut. How you put in your backcut has ALOT to do with the success of getting the tree down with the least amount of fuss and bother. . Doug Dent had it figured out pretty well and documented it very well in his book. .

I'm actually surprised that I had something to disagree with Blitzer on as I really like his cutting.

 

[tramp bushler]

Oh, and while I'm at it.

Any idiot that refers to a chain saw's guide bar as a blade gets rejected out of hand immediately. If they're to stupid to not know that first most basic fact then there isn't anything they have to say that is worth listening to.