tricky tree

[tramp bushler]

I'd be reluctant to leave a trigger on a tree I'm trying to swing, manipulation of the hold wood is part of steering it, with a trigger your to far away to get back to the hold wood in time, so your cuts have to be right from the get go...

The diagrams are always kinda tricky to figure out anyway until you sit down and really look at it with a tree you're ready to kill.

As far as conventional vs. humboldt... never tried swinging one with a conventional cut???

Sniping (from what I can gather...) is like taking an extra bit out of your face cut, sort of a third angle, Either in line with the desired fall so the butt can sit down faster or off to one side if you intend to roll it off the stump.

Slipping be it side or back... is just plain scary even when it works right, that involves intentionally making your cuts crooked as sin, and usually having the back cut lower then the face... not for the week kneed...

The bit Owl mentioned is referred to as the "soft dutchmen" really just a swing dutch with extra cuts for extra movement, you could even toss in a siswheel on the off side to get really crazy.

My opinion here (well it all is really...) I figure the dutchmen block is more for when I notice that I screwed up on my gun or there is something on that side I didn't notice before, otherwise I try and use cuts to swing em, blocks take extra time to make... and don't use rocks Odin's blind eye who keeps putting that in books anyway... yer face chunk is just sitting there use it.

Exactly. Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for saving me the typing. !! If I could I'de rep ya

 

[HuskStihl]

Oh, and while I'm at it.

Any idiot that refers to a chain saw's guide bar as a blade gets rejected out of hand immediately. If they're to stupid to not know that first most basic fact then there isn't anything they have to say that is worth listening to.

Double crap!

 

[OlympicYJ]

With the siz the holding wood is doing all the work. With the soft dutch the extra kerfs are helping with the movement and not putting as much strain on the holding wood.


I will get some pics up with the explanations I can give this week some time. I just got super busy with the ground drying up.

Okay I get what you're saying now. So on the soft dutch you would want the extra kerfs on the side you're trying to swing it to right?

 

[hammerlogging]

Some of these diagrams must have been done up by a gubmint employee with a strong need to justify doodeling.

A lot of these descriptions are at times maybe a good idea. But none of them are a garrentee none of them are worth a hoot if you don't have a sharp straight cutting saw.

IMO. Most falling is best accomplished with a standard humbolt face and a standard back cut. How you put in your backcut has ALOT to do with the success of getting the tree down with the least amount of fuss and bother. . Doug Dent had it figured out pretty well and documented it very well in his book. .

I'm actually surprised that I had something to disagree with Blitzer on as I really like his cutting.

I suspect Bitzer was addressing a more closed face vs. open concept but made it sound like conventional vs humboldt--- to allow a tree to close its face, release from the hinge, and roll through standing timber, rather than the power steer of an open face, sometimes undesirable.

 

[bitzer]

Tramp- You are right with a Humboldt and not having the butt come back over the stump, I guess I should have added a little to my explanation. I think Humboldt faces have a tendency to get hung when trying to push through standing timber, especially when the butt hits the ground first. A Saginaw face has move forward top momentum I think which helps push it through. When I'm tossing a tree through timber there is going to be so much crap coming back over the stump at me I'm bookin it out of there anyway. My ultimate goal is to have the tree hit the ground and if the butt comes back over the stump 10 or 15 feet I'm long gone by that time. Usually it doesn't but it sure will when the hinge is set to break quickly. That's just how I've found to do it best. I should have put a disclaimer on that. In my hardwood timber that only averages 75 foot tall or so its not as big a deal as I'm sure a tall conifer coming back over the stump.

The funny thing is you kind of put the idea in my head years ago when you mentioned using a Saginaw face in your driver tree when knockin over other timber. Its that forward momentum of the top thing.

 

[bitzer]

Okay I get what you're saying now. So on the soft dutch you would want the extra kerfs on the side you're trying to swing it to right?

Anytime you are using a Dutchman its the holding wood side you are swinging to. The tree is leaning left. You cut the left side of the hinge off to swing it right.

 

[treeslayer2003]

Tramp- You are right with a Humboldt and not having the butt come back over the stump, I guess I should have added a little to my explanation. I think Humboldt faces have a tendency to get hung when trying to push through standing timber, especially when the butt hits the ground first. A Saginaw face has move forward top momentum I think which helps push it through. When I'm tossing a tree through timber there is going to be so much crap coming back over the stump at me I'm bookin it out of there anyway. My ultimate goal is to have the tree hit the ground and if the butt comes back over the stump 10 or 15 feet I'm long gone by that time. Usually it doesn't but it sure will when the hinge is set to break quickly. That's just how I've found to do it best. I should have put a disclaimer on that. In my hardwood timber that only averages 75 foot tall or so its not as big a deal as I'm sure a tall conifer coming back over the stump.

The funny thing is you kind of put the idea in my head years ago when you mentioned using a Saginaw face in your driver tree when knockin over other timber. Its that forward momentum of the top thing.

bitz, I cut a lot of hardwood too, i'm sure after reading stuff here that timber out west is a whole different ballgame. you see that clip on that mt. side, I couldn't see my self doin that.

 

[bitzer]

bitz, I cut a lot of hardwood too, i'm sure after reading stuff here that timber out west is a whole different ballgame. you see that clip on that mt. side, I couldn't see my self doin that.

Nope I'm not on facebook. I wish I could have seen it. Me...I'd give anything to be out there!

 

[bustedup]

Okay I get what you're saying now. So on the soft dutch you would want the extra kerfs on the side you're trying to swing it to right?

I might be completely wrong but the way I read the soft dutch is the extra kerfs are on the swing side I'd look on it as it squeezes the stump giving it just that little more time before it past the point where the hinge will let go............I'm maybe way off and not doing it right (which is possible) or my explanation not clear (or both lol)

 

[treeslayer2003]

Nope I'm not on facebook. I wish I could have seen it. Me...I'd give anything to be out there!

I ain't ether, just clicked on the green writing and watched it on here, forgot were it is though.
randy mac posted it yesterday under falling pics

 

[OlympicYJ]

Anytime you are using a Dutchman its the holding wood side you are swinging to. The tree is leaning left. You cut the left side of the hinge off to swing it right.

So the extra kerfs would be going on the holding wood side?

 

[bustedup]

So the extra kerfs would be going on the holding wood side?

Yup they do

 

[bustedup]

How I do it is humbolt (works better I think with a soft dutch) cut the holding wood on the lean side (hopefully getting the amount right ) then put in the kerfs depending on amount of extra wanted how many kerfs and how wide (across the face on the stump) then (depending on lean what kind of back cut) then back it up tapering the holding wood. I probably stay in to long but I do and hopefully it will pull to the lay ya want.


Only my way and only really use of softwood doesn't imo work to well on hard as they tend to bust quicker .......Oh and I nip the corners to lol hopefully to stop side scarring

 

[bustedup]

Dang should have said I angle the kerfs and I kinda taper them too (that prob makes no sense either)

 

[tramp bushler]

Ya on the real scary ones I will use a Sag face when driving where the driver tree is above the stump of the tree that I'm driving. It keeps it from falling off the stump and coming down and getting me. .

It is a lot safer in that situation than a humbolt face. I pretty much only do it when cutting on rock bluffs and ledges where there is no where for me to go. The driver will go below and past me. It's important to park the driver on the lower half of the driven tree.
I cut the heart out of the driver and use a real steep Sag face and a couple inch of stump shot.

 

[treeslayer2003]

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sorry ta leave ya'll hangin, took a while ta get to it. really not so "tricky" funny how the mind remembers things. wound up jus standard face & back cut with wedges. ol standby really best sometimes. did take out a beech ta make room for it. saved out well, 76 feet of clear wood.
spieciel thanks to owl, tho I didn't use it this time that cushion trick is added to the bag.

 

[jrcat]

nice work TS