Trying to get smarter about chain sharpening

[5backacres]

A few different issues: accuracy, consistency, and 'fealty' (for lack of a better term at the moment).

Accuracy: is your grinder really grinding at 60°, and not 59.5° or 61°? Was the manufacturer off a bit? My grinder has 2 angle scales, which do not agree exactly. I tried to adjust one to match the other, but decided on just choosing one of them to follow. Never checked either against another scale / device / protractor. It's a 'semi-precision' machine, IMO.

Consistency: I was told by an Oregon rep that is better for all of your cutters to be the same. In other words, if they are ALL 61° it is better than if they average 60° (some 59°, some 61°, some 56°, one at 63.5°, etc.).

'Fealty': are you legally, contractually, or morally obligated to grind at the angles that STIHL, Oregon, etc., recommend?

I had the opportunity to visit the Oregon factory, several years ago, and watch chains be made. The cutters were all ground, before being assembled into loops of chain, on specialized, custom, grinding machines that each cost more than my house. The engineer commented something like, 'that's why it's hard to match the factory grind'.

Bottom line: work on being consistent in whatever angles you choose. Make those choices based on what works best for you, more than the general starting recommendations offered by the manufacturers.

Philbert

The lye changes grease into a soap .
Hey Philbert How does one get a Husquvarna combi-can ? Amazon says they'll ship to eligible patrons?. I like the idea of the no overfill spouts( I guess I could use a battery fill water pitcher it works the same way) on the oil and fuel but that means hauling another item in the field
Thanks

 

[Philbert]

The lye changes grease into a soap .

All I know is that it cuts through it on the chains, better than cleaning solutions without it. And fast. Sometimes in less than a minute.

Hey Philbert How does one get a Husquvarna combi-can ?

No ideas. You already know more than me.

Philbert

 

[5backacres]

All I know is that it cuts through it on the chains, better than cleaning solutions without it. And fast. Sometimes in less than a minute.


No ideas. You already know more than me.

Philbert

Sorry I'm in error the grease petroleum will not saponify so it must be another item in the bar oil that it removes maybe the tacky addittive. the husky can is sold in Europe but doesn't meet our crazy standards here. Thought you might know a way to get one.

 

[BangBang77]

Guys on here as well as the forbidden forum have ordered the Husqvarna combi-can thru Amazon successfully.

 

[5backacres]

All I know is that it cuts through it on the chains, better than cleaning solutions without it. And fast. Sometimes in less than a minute.


No ideas. You already know more than me.

Philbert

According to Chemist with Petrochemical experience: "Sodium Hydroxide (Lye) will strip Petroleum /oil off metal" Which means if oven cleaner is cheaper, the fact you can spray it on and don't have to handle it might make it safer...Wear goggles, gloves!
Oven cleaner with lye will make animal grease/fats into a soap. these soaps work fine for bathing in normal water..but if you mix olive oil/ vegetable oil with Potassium Hydroxide your get Castile soap that you can bathe in salt water or ivery hard water.

Guys on here as well as the forbidden forum have ordered the Husqvarna combi-can thru Amazon successfully.

Thanks my depth perceptions is getting old like me and I'm always over filling the oil

 

[Philbert]

Lye is used in the traditional soap making process. It is also used in some food processing (!), and was just the subject of a hacker attack on a Florida water treatment plant:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-water-hack-oldsmar-treatment-plant/
You can buy 'food grade' lye from Amazon. Homestead type folks would leach it from oak ashes (I tried this, just for the heck of it, in one of those threads I referenced above). 'Red Devil' lye used to be sold in most hardware stores, as commonly as nails. I bought some from a home center, sold to clear drains, but it did not dissolve easily, and was hard to measure accurately for this use. So I use the 'SuperClean', or comparable ZEP degreasing product, or something similar: about $8 / gallon here - I usually dilute it 50/50 for chains. If you try it side-by-side with a 'purple cleaner' that does not have sodium hydroxide listed on the label, you will see a significant difference, especially for the really gunky chains I sometimes get to sharpen (look like they are coated in asphalt).

I usually work in my basement, so I don't want to stink up the place with diesel fuel, or use something really flammable, like gasoline, paint thinner, or other solvents. The spray on oven cleaner would also work, but I don't want to put that stuff in the air: maybe if its in a manual pump spray bottle.

Philbert

 

[Socalmisfit]

Lye is used in the traditional soap making process. It is also used in some food processing (!), and was just the subject of a hacker attack on a Florida water treatment plant:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-water-hack-oldsmar-treatment-plant/
You can buy 'food grade' lye from Amazon. Homestead type folks would leach it from oak ashes (I tried this, just for the heck of it, in one of those threads I referenced above). 'Red Devil' lye used to be sold in most hardware stores, as commonly as nails. I bought some from a home center, sold to clear drains, but it did not dissolve easily, and was hard to measure accurately for this use. So I use the 'SuperClean', or comparable ZEP degreasing product, or something similar: about $8 / gallon here - I usually dilute it 50/50 for chains. If you try it side-by-side with a 'purple cleaner' that does not have sodium hydroxide listed on the label, you will see a significant difference, especially for the really gunky chains I sometimes get to sharpen (look like they are coated in asphalt).

I usually work in my basement, so I don't want to stink up the place with diesel fuel, or use something really flammable, like gasoline, paint thinner, or other solvents. The spray on oven cleaner would also work, but I don't want to put that stuff in the air: maybe if its in a manual pump spray bottle.

Philbert

So what grinding wheels do you use? I am using the pink techomec and am tired of dressing this thing. I see they have green and gray. Also the Oregon auto grinder wheels, not sure what I would need to run them.
Also I have the techomec grinder the jolly evo, when I grind semi chisel chain it turns out great. But full chisel with the 10 degrees it seems to always be off, but n the bottom degree. It’s weird, anyways some good grinding wheel info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jetsam]

So what grinding wheels do you use? I am using the pink techomec and am tired of dressing this thing. I see they have green and gray. Also the Oregon auto grinder wheels, not sure what I would need to run them.
Also I have the techomec grinder the jolly evo, when I grind semi chisel chain it turns out great. But full chisel with the 10 degrees it seems to always be off, but n the bottom degree. It’s weird, anyways some good grinding wheel info would be greatly appreciated.

CBN wheels never need dressing. A lot of people like 'em. They cost more up front, but last a long time and definitely end up cheaper than name brand consumable wheels. Harder to gauge if you're buying $10 eBay wheels.

Angling the clamp for a 10° tilt requires a top plate angle adjustment too, maybe that's what is throwing you?

 

[Socalmisfit]

CBN wheels never need dressing. A lot of people like 'em. They cost more up front, but last a long time and definitely end up cheaper than name brand consumable wheels. Harder to gauge if you're buying $10 eBay wheels.

Angling the clamp for a 10° tilt requires a top plate angle adjustment too, maybe that's what is throwing you?

On the tecomech it slides front to back, there is a gauge on the side. Left cutters go back 10 and right cutters come forward 10. I’ve seen the cbn wheels, was just wondering if there was a better wheel than the tecomech pinks, that are more affordable than cbn. I’ve been grinding on chain that’s hit nails, out here with the wood we get there is a lot of chain that needs a lot of grinding to bring it back. I see that there are different colors of wheels through tecomech just not sure which does what. Or if other brands grind better without heating up the teeth. Just seems even after cleaning the chain the wheel glazes over so fast, than comes the battle of how slow to go. I wouldn’t mind running a coarse wheel to bring the chain back then go down to a fine to finish it up, just need to know the color codes. I guess I could just go over the chain a few times, but I know that black ring will come on and the thing won’t want to grind.

 

[huskihl]

On the tecomech it slides front to back, there is a gauge on the side. Left cutters go back 10 and right cutters come forward 10. I’ve seen the cbn wheels, was just wondering if there was a better wheel than the tecomech pinks, that are more affordable than cbn. I’ve been grinding on chain that’s hit nails, out here with the wood we get there is a lot of chain that needs a lot of grinding to bring it back. I see that there are different colors of wheels through tecomech just not sure which does what. Or if other brands grind better without heating up the teeth. Just seems even after cleaning the chain the wheel glazes over so fast, than comes the battle of how slow to go. I wouldn’t mind running a coarse wheel to bring the chain back then go down to a fine to finish it up, just need to know the color codes. I guess I could just go over the chain a few times, but I know that black ring will come on and the thing won’t want to grind.

The Tecomec green wheels work really well in my experience

 

[Socalmisfit]

The Tecomec green wheels work really well in my experience

Thank you sir

 

[jetsam]

On the tecomech it slides front to back, there is a gauge on the side. Left cutters go back 10 and right cutters come forward 10. I’ve seen the cbn wheels, was just wondering if there was a better wheel than the tecomech pinks, that are more affordable than cbn. I’ve been grinding on chain that’s hit nails, out here with the wood we get there is a lot of chain that needs a lot of grinding to bring it back. I see that there are different colors of wheels through tecomech just not sure which does what. Or if other brands grind better without heating up the teeth. Just seems even after cleaning the chain the wheel glazes over so fast, than comes the battle of how slow to go. I wouldn’t mind running a coarse wheel to bring the chain back then go down to a fine to finish it up, just need to know the color codes. I guess I could just go over the chain a few times, but I know that black ring will come on and the thing won’t want to grind.

Clean the chains before you start to avoid the black ring.

Here is a good discussion with a tecomac color chart.

 

[Philbert]

So what grinding wheels do you use? I am using the pink techomec and am tired of dressing this thing.

I may be an outlier, but I LIKE the 'pink' Tecomec / Oregon / Molemab wheels; maybe that is because they are what I am accustomed to? The key thing is to dress the wheels lightly, and frequently, to constantly expose fresh abrasive. I lightly dress the wheels about once per chain loop, and any time that they feel like they need it. It just becomes part of the set up for each loop. They do produce dust, so I prefer to grind outside when I can. The Oregon grinder stand is a handy way to do this, although, they can be mounted on a variety of things.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-554532-tripod-grinder-stand.348230/
I tried a pair of the $100 CBN wheels and was not impressed; maybe the ones I received were not typical?

I tried one of the 'green' wheels and it worked well, but I did not notice much improvement over the 'pink' ones. I would be happy to use either one, if the cost is the same.

I tried the 'resinoid' wheels and got good results with them too. They are slightly less likely to overheat cutters, so a good option for guys having trouble with that, but have a distinctive smell when used.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/resinoid-grinder-wheels.256733/
As @jetsam noted, there is a discussion of some of these wheels in the thread above. *But just because they are listed does not mean that you will find them to buy for your grinder*. I would love to try one of the 'white' wheels for finishing, but was told at one time that I would have to import a box of 20. There are a variety of ceramic wheels available for the 8" square grinders, and some guys have tried to make bushings, or modifications to run these on their 'standard' 5-3/4" grinders, etc.

I am open to trying new wheels, but pretty content with the 'pink' ones right now. If any of you guys have changed to another type, let me know and I will PM you my address!

Philbert

 

[BradSt]

I prefer the pink wheels. I tried green and didn't like them as much. A bit smoother finish, but seemed more likely to burn the cutters. If my chain is clean, I can grind a 72DL chain without re-dressing. I usually touch it up for each chain. If the chain is dirty, it gets gummed up halfway through. I want to try a CBN sometime, but don't want to spend the money, and not like it. If the chain is clean, you won't see those black rings. I use a degreaser, hot water, and a toothbrush. From start to finish, it takes me about 2 minutes for a 72DL chain.

 

[Philbert]

I prefer the pink wheels.

(DAMN! - I was hoping to get boxes of free 'pink' wheels, just like when I offered to 're-home' unloved, low-kickback "safety" chains!).

Philbert

 

[HarleyT]

I like the pink ones.
they match my blouse.....

No, I actually have better luck with them.

 

[jetsam]

I may be an outlier, but I LIKE the 'pink' Tecomec / Oregon / Molemab wheels; maybe that is because they are what I am accustomed to? The key thing is to dress the wheels lightly, and frequently, to constantly expose fresh abrasive. I lightly dress the wheels about once per chain loop, and any time that they feel like they need it. It just becomes part of the set up for each loop. They do produce dust, so I prefer to grind outside when I can. The Oregon grinder stand is a handy way to do this, although, they can be mounted on a variety of things.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-554532-tripod-grinder-stand.348230/
I tried a pair of the $100 CBN wheels and was not impressed; maybe the ones I received were not typical?

I tried one of the 'green' wheels and it worked well, but I did not notice much improvement over the 'pink' ones. I would be happy to use either one, if the cost is the same.

I tried the 'resinoid' wheels and got good results with them too. They are slightly less likely to overheat cutters, so a good option for guys having trouble with that, but have a distinctive smell when used.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/resinoid-grinder-wheels.256733/
As @jetsam noted, there is a discussion of some of these wheels in the thread above. *But just because they are listed does not mean that you will find them to buy for your grinder*. I would love to try one of the 'white' wheels for finishing, but was told at one time that I would have to import a box of 20. There are a variety of ceramic wheels available for the 8" square grinders, and some guys have tried to make bushings, or modifications to run these on their 'standard' 5-3/4" grinders, etc.

I am open to trying new wheels, but pretty content with the 'pink' ones right now. If any of you guys have changed to another type, let me know and I will PM you my address!

Philbert

I bet you could find some guys who are willing to pay you the price of the wheel and shipping to try a white one. (Though I must admit, there seem to be more people here interested in cutting wood than obtaining a mirror finish with their grinders, and the speed cut hobbyists seem to all hand file, so I don't know if you could sell 18 of them...)

See if they have an Americas sales rep, and ask the sales rep for some freebies so you can have some reviews on here! Sales reps love that stuff.

 

[Philbert]

I have spoken with the US reps. Plus, I would have to buy 40 to get both 1/8” and 3/16” wheels!

If I had an established eBay site; no problem.

As you note, the white ones probably just make polished cutters to make the snobby filers jealous!

Philbert

 

[jetsam]

Uncoated porcelain would probably be super cheap to make and be good for polishing. Not sure how you'd clean the steel out of them (but I have a porcelain knife stone that has turned black over the years and still works...)

Again though, I think your whole target market segment for that stuff hand files and wouldn't consider a grinder.

 

[jetsam]

I have spoken with the US reps. Plus, I would have to buy 40 to get both 1/8” and 3/16” wheels!

If I had an established eBay site; no problem.

As you note, the white ones probably just make polished cutters to make the snobby filers jealous!

Philbert

Evidently they didn't google you before they said no.

What kind of sales rep wouldn't want a chance to get their product reviewed by enthusiasts in the US market? I'd have been all over that if it was my company.

Maybe they view the fine stones as being too niche to ever result in significant sales even if the enthusiasts like 'em.

Also possible that they don't make much markup on the stones and don't really regard rebranded grinding stones as a core part of their business.