Two-Stroke Oils: All the Same?

[MacAttack]

Klotz Techniplate is good oil...I had snapped a photo of the label for the heck of it. FD rated.

I've never had any issues running it for 25+ years. I have no idea what the difference is between regular or snowmobile Techniplate, maybe cold pour?

 

[bwalker]

Klotz Techniplate is good oil...I had snapped a photo of the label for the heck of it. FD rated.

I've never had any issues running it for 25+ years. I have no idea what the difference is between regular or snowmobile Techniplate, maybe cold pour?

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Techniplate and Snowmobile techniplate are completely different oils. The only FD certified oil Klotz makes is snowmobile techniplate. Although the bottle pictured appears to be older and before it was certified.

 

[MacAttack]

Techniplate and Snowmobile techniplate are completely different oils. The only FD certified oil Klotz makes is snowmobile techniplate. Although the bottle pictured appears to be older and before it was certified.

That bottle is about 4 years old, says FD certified on the front and back.
Interesting you say they are completely different oils, but I don't know either way. I just know the Snowmobile Techniplate is what the grass drag guys told me to run, and it's been good to me.

 

[bwalker]

That bottle is about 4 years old, says FD certified on the front and back.
Interesting you say they are completely different oils, but I don't know either way. I just know the Snowmobile Techniplate is what the grass drag guys told me to run, and it's been good to me.

No where on that bottle does it say FD certified. FD certified oils usually have a FD symbol with license number on them.
It also mentions TCW3. It's not TCw3 certified and if it where it woukd be impossible for it to meet or actually be FD certified.
This misleading marketing at its best..

 

[5155]

Long time ago I worked part time at an oil and grease plant.
While filling, labeling, and stacking motor oil, many times the container and label would change throughout the batch from premium to regular to other.

Question in my mind was, did the batch change throughout the run, or is it a "meets or accedes" thing?

Oh and the number one and only brand that the blenders took home for their own use was, drum roll please, mil spec.

 

[MacAttack]

No where on that bottle does it say FD certified. FD certified oils usually have a FD symbol with license number on them.
It also mentions TCW3. It's not TCw3 certified and if it where it woukd be impossible for it to meet or actually be FD certified.
This misleading marketing at its best..

Please explain how "certified warranty compliance" and "Jaso FD and ISO-EGD certification" does not mean FD certified. That would be one hell of a spin on words.

Do you have an example of what a true FD certification would look like? I'd have to take another look at my bottles of Echo FD oil to find the difference.

 

[OM617YOTA]

I think Ben's differentiating between actually JASO certified, vs. "meets or exceeds".

Back to the official JASO list, looks like Klotz Snowmobile Technicplate is certified JASO FD.



Again, whole list here:

https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdf

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I can remember at least twenty threads on the this oil subject. So what is the conclusion?? Yes two stroke engines need oil or maybe they do not. For more than twenty years I built two stroke race engines for a living and found each engine needed some thing a little different. As an example some one wanting to run a Kawasaki H1 or H2 for a quarter mile is different than setting up a good Moto Xer. Some engines were torn down after 20 minutes of run time with others going ten or even twenty hours between rebuilds. Some thing more important than any thing is a good tune with not too much fuel or too lean. How many people even look at their spark plugs. I most often march right over to Walmart and buy a couple of gallons of Supertech and am ready for a few months of trouble free saw work. Yes I have hundreds of hours of saw use with no problems. One can not find a more generic brand than that. Thanks

 

[MacAttack]

I think Ben's differentiating between actually JASO certified, vs. "meets or exceeds".

Back to the official JASO list, looks like Klotz Snowmobile Technicplate is certified JASO FD.

View attachment 1049103

Again, whole list here:

https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdf

Gotcha. I would have been pretty disappointed if they were intentionally being misleading.
The part I can't speak to is FD and TCW 3 being mutually exclusive, I'm guessing that's related to the ash content.
I mixed up a gallon of 32:1 valvoline oil for some of my older saws, I'd swear it smokes less than synthetic.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Gotcha. I would have been pretty disappointed if they were intentionally being misleading.
The part I can't speak to is FD and TCW 3 being mutually exclusive, I'm guessing that's related to the ash content.
I mixed up a gallon of 32:1 valvoline oil for some of my older saws, I'd swear it smokes less than synthetic.

View attachment 1049235View attachment 1049236

I'm just guessing, obviously I'm not speaking for Ben.

I ran exactly that Valvoline oil in a KE100 dual sport with oil injection. Thousands of miles, zero issues.

 

[bwalker]

Gotcha. I would have been pretty disappointed if they were intentionally being misleading.
The part I can't speak to is FD and TCW 3 being mutually exclusive, I'm guessing that's related to the ash content.
I mixed up a gallon of 32:1 valvoline oil for some of my older saws, I'd swear it smokes less than synthetic.

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They are being intentionally misleading.
TCW3 oils will not pass JASO FD because TCW3 oils must be ashless. You need some mettalic additives, IE ash to pass the FD tests.
The two types of oils are formulated completely differently.

 

[MacAttack]

Here is what I could find, and I do not claim to be any kind of expert in oil certifications or the refining industry. The Klotz website states Jaso FD and TC-W3 certified. So I looked up the 2021 registry of TC-W3 certified oils, it lists "Klotz TC-W3". The only caveat is that Klotz also sells an ashless Marine Techniplate oil, so without it specifically calling out "Snowmobile Technipate" it's not 100% conclusive.
I don't think the snowmobile oil is ashless. The marine oil is ashless but also claims Jaso FD certified.... you'd have to ask them.

 

[bwalker]

Here is what I could find, and I do not claim to be any kind of expert in oil certifications or the refining industry. The Klotz website states Jaso FD and TC-W3 certified. So I looked up the 2021 registry of TC-W3 certified oils, it lists "Klotz TC-W3". The only caveat is that Klotz also sells an ashless Marine Techniplate oil, so without it specifically calling out "Snowmobile Technipate" it's not 100% conclusive.

I don't think the snowmobile oil is ashless. The marine oil is ashless but also claims Jaso FD certified.... you'd have to ask them.



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KLOTZ does oil have a TCW3 oil, but it's not snowmobile Techniplate, which is their o
only FD certified oil.

You will not find an oil on both TCW3 and FD lists because it's not technically possible.

 

[Ironhorsedoctor]

Here is what I could find, and I do not claim to be any kind of expert in oil certifications or the refining industry. The Klotz website states Jaso FD and TC-W3 certified. So I looked up the 2021 registry of TC-W3 certified oils, it lists "Klotz TC-W3". The only caveat is that Klotz also sells an ashless Marine Techniplate oil, so without it specifically calling out "Snowmobile Technipate" it's not 100% conclusive.
I don't think the snowmobile oil is ashless. The marine oil is ashless but also claims Jaso FD certified.... you'd have to ask them.

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For what’s it worth l scuffed a piston and cylinder on my Toro 2 cycle snowblower using a Jaso FD oil mix that I used in my Stihl chainsaw.
When I searched for the owner manual for the snowblower online the manual said to use Toro 2 cycle oil at 50:1. If Toro oil wasn’t available use TCW-3 outboard motor oil. What I do know is that there is a low smoke and low ash 2 cycle oil and my snowblower operates at about 3800 rpm and my saw at 13000 max. The only thing that I can figure is that not all two cycle oil is the same and they’re formulated for certain applications and engine requirements and conditions! A new B&S R-Tek short block for the Toro mixed with
Toro 2 cycle and the FD is reserved for the saw,weed trimmer and leaf blower

 

[bwalker]

For what’s it worth l scuffed a piston and cylinder on my Toro 2 cycle snowblower using a Jaso FD oil mix that I used in my Stihl chainsaw.
When I searched for the owner manual for the snowblower online the manual said to use Toro 2 cycle oil at 50:1. If Toro oil wasn’t available use TCW-3 outboard motor oil. What I do know is that there is a low smoke and low ash 2 cycle oil and my snowblower operates at about 3800 rpm and my saw at 13000 max. The only thing that I can figure is that not all two cycle oil is the same and they’re formulated for certain applications and engine requirements and conditions! A new B&S R-Tek short block for the Toro mixed with
Toro 2 cycle and the FD is reserved for the saw,weed trimmer and leaf blower

The oil didnt scuff your piston, but Toros and other similar engines like Lawnboys really need a TCW3 ashless oil or they have issues.
FWIWni have two Toro Snowcommanders and Ran lawnboy Duraforce motors for years.
And yes two cycle oils are application specific.

 

[MacAttack]

For what’s it worth l scuffed a piston and cylinder on my Toro 2 cycle snowblower using a Jaso FD oil mix that I used in my Stihl chainsaw.
When I searched for the owner manual for the snowblower online the manual said to use Toro 2 cycle oil at 50:1. If Toro oil wasn’t available use TCW-3 outboard motor oil. What I do know is that there is a low smoke and low ash 2 cycle oil and my snowblower operates at about 3800 rpm and my saw at 13000 max. The only thing that I can figure is that not all two cycle oil is the same and they’re formulated for certain applications and engine requirements and conditions! A new B&S R-Tek short block for the Toro mixed with
Toro 2 cycle and the FD is reserved for the saw,weed trimmer and leaf blower

I would also not be suspicious of the oil causing the scuffing as much as a lean fuel ratio condition. I would be looking for an air leak somewhere causing it to lean out. Otherwise you could scuff another piston / cylinder. Or it could need a carburetor adjustment.

 

[Andyshine77]

Oils that are JASO FD certified will have the certification emblem and number. Saying meets or exceeds a certification is just marketing. This is not to say oils without certification are poor quality oils.

This is what the emblem looks like on oils that are actually certified.

 

[rogue60]

There's no guarantees in life but I can 100% guarantee I won't be stressing about smearing piston up and down the cylinder walls or shortening the life of a saw running the good stuffs with all the right minerals and vitamins
Puts a lot of top tier expensive "superior" synthetics to shame..

 

[Ilmater]

There's no guarantees in life but I can 100% guarantee I won't be stressing about smearing piston up and down the cylinder walls or shortening the life of a saw running the good stuffs with all the right minerals and vitamins
Puts a lot of top tier expensive "superior" synthetics to shame..

Can you still buy this exact product in your locale? Because either they reformulated this oil years ago and some (most?) places are selling the thinner red version. I know this for a fact for 2 reasons: 1) The shipment I got of 5 1 liter bottles is not blue like yours is, it is dyed red. Also, there are at least 2 different safety data sheets on this oil where one says it is blue, and the other sds says red. The stuff you have is a heavier viscosity of 10-12 cst @ 100 C, the red stuff is thinner at 8.8c @ 100 C.

Date of issue 11/19/2021
https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/a...5A3FA34092E8025879500580FF8/$File/2797397.pdfKinematic: 97.82 mm2/s (97.82 cSt) at 40°C
Kinematic: 10.3 to 11.3 mm2/s (10.3 to 11.3 cSt) at 100°C
Color: Blue

Date of issue 5 April 2018
http://www.cdgltd.co.uk/files/ww/coshh/Castrol Garden 2T.pdfKinematic: 53.8 mm2/s (53.8 cSt) at 40°C
Kinematic: 7.5 to 8.5 mm2/s (7.5 to 8.5 cSt) at 100°C
Color: Red

Here's something else very bizzare--another SDS for the blue version, that is extremely thick at colder temps, and even higher visc than the other blue formulation I posted above at 100 C:

Kinematic: 230 mm2/s (230 cSt) at 40°C
Kinematic: 12 mm2/s (12 cSt) at 100°C

Technical data sheet from a shop in New Zealand matches the product you have in your pictures:
https://store.pggwrightson.co.nz/media/product_files//9a27691443d953338cb56226721f2eaae768367f.pdf
Color: Dark Blue

 

[bwalker]

Can you still buy this exact product in your locale? Because either they reformulated this oil years ago and some (most?) places are selling the thinner red version. I know this for a fact for 2 reasons: 1) The shipment I got of 5 1 liter bottles is not blue like yours is, it is dyed red. Also, there are at least 2 different safety data sheets on this oil where one says it is blue, and the other sds says red. The stuff you have is a heavier viscosity of 10-12 cst @ 100 C, the red stuff is thinner at 8.8c @ 100 C.







Date of issue 11/19/2021



https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/a...5A3FA34092E8025879500580FF8/$File/2797397.pdf


Kinematic: 97.82 mm2/s (97.82 cSt) at 40°C



Kinematic: 10.3 to 11.3 mm2/s (10.3 to 11.3 cSt) at 100°C



Color: Blue







Date of issue 5 April 2018



http://www.cdgltd.co.uk/files/ww/coshh/Castrol Garden 2T.pdf


Kinematic: 53.8 mm2/s (53.8 cSt) at 40°C



Kinematic: 7.5 to 8.5 mm2/s (7.5 to 8.5 cSt) at 100°C



Color: Red







Here's something else very bizzare--another SDS for the blue version, that is extremely thick at colder temps, and even higher visc than the other blue formulation I posted above at 100 C:







Kinematic: 230 mm2/s (230 cSt) at 40°C



Kinematic: 12 mm2/s (12 cSt) at 100°C







Technical data sheet from a shop in New Zealand matches the product you have in your pictures:



https://store.pggwrightson.co.nz/me...5A3FA34092E8025879500580FF8/$File/2797397.pdf
Kinematic: 97.82 mm2/s (97.82 cSt) at 40°C

Kinematic: 10.3 to 11.3 mm2/s (10.3 to 11.3 cSt) at 100°C

Color: Blue



Date of issue 5 April 2018

http://www.cdgltd.co.uk/files/ww/coshh/Castrol Garden 2T.pdf
Kinematic: 53.8 mm2/s (53.8 cSt) at 40°C

Kinematic: 7.5 to 8.5 mm2/s (7.5 to 8.5 cSt) at 100°C

Color: Red



Here's something else very bizzare--another SDS for the blue version, that is extremely thick at colder temps, and even higher visc than the other blue formulation I posted above at 100 C:



Kinematic: 230 mm2/s (230 cSt) at 40°C

Kinematic: 12 mm2/s (12 cSt) at 100°C



Technical data sheet from a shop in New Zealand matches the product you have in your pictures:

https://store.pggwrightson.co.nz/media/product_files//9a27691443d953338cb56226721f2eaae768367f.pdf


Color: Dark Blue



.pdf[/URL]







Color: Dark Blue

Can you still buy this exact product in your locale? Because either they reformulated this oil years ago and some (most?) places are selling the thinner red version. I know this for a fact for 2 reasons: 1) The shipment I got of 5 1 liter bottles is not blue like yours is, it is dyed red. Also, there are at least 2 different safety data sheets on this oil where one says it is blue, and the other sds says red. The stuff you have is a heavier viscosity of 10-12 cst @ 100 C, the red stuff is thinner at 8.8c @ 100 C.

Date of issue 11/19/2021
https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/a...5A3FA34092E8025879500580FF8/$File/2797397.pdfKinematic: 97.82 mm2/s (97.82 cSt) at 40°C
Kinematic: 10.3 to 11.3 mm2/s (10.3 to 11.3 cSt) at 100°C
Color: Blue

Date of issue 5 April 2018
http://www.cdgltd.co.uk/files/ww/coshh/Castrol Garden 2T.pdfKinematic: 53.8 mm2/s (53.8 cSt) at 40°C
Kinematic: 7.5 to 8.5 mm2/s (7.5 to 8.5 cSt) at 100°C
Color: Red

Here's something else very bizzare--another SDS for the blue version, that is extremely thick at colder temps, and even higher visc than the other blue formulation I posted above at 100 C:

Kinematic: 230 mm2/s (230 cSt) at 40°C
Kinematic: 12 mm2/s (12 cSt) at 100°C

Technical data sheet from a shop in New Zealand matches the product you have in your pictures:
https://store.pggwrightson.co.nz/media/product_files//9a27691443d953338cb56226721f2eaae768367f.pdf
Color: Dark Blue

You are comparing MSDS files from different countrys. The products very by country even if they are named the same.