Underbidding Idiots

[lxt]

Well folks I bid a state job this week, I get a call thursday from one of the other bidders who went to the site for a tour of what was to be done. I was at the site tour also, he asks me if I heard about who was awarded the bid, I said No & he proceeds to tell me the winning bid was from a minnesota company & they bid the contract at $125.00 an acre

I was dumbfounded, I called & checked to verify what I was told & to my dis belief it was true, I had to call back the gentleman & apologize cuz I thought he was messing with me, we talked for awhile...good guy!

But here is the scoop on what was bid, whatta ya think!

61 acres drop n leave as is, access roads must be kept clear, trees range from 1 DBH - 24Dbh with certain species to remain. The 61 acres is split into 9 different sections, you have till 4-15-2010 to finish. 2 months & must post a deadline surety of $2,000.00 non refundable if project is not complete, no extensions!!

The area is unreclaimed strip mines & access by machinery is not possible ( not to mention the 2ft of snow) stumps must be 12" or lower the acreage is game lands property & you are deep in the bush!! I mean deep.

who here would clear 61 acres for $7625.00, mind you this is PA & its hills & valleys...........I mean hills!

I was figuring 6-8 men clearing 1.5 - 2 acres a day at best!! My minimum rate for just showing up no matter how small a job is $100.00 seems like a sweetheart contract to me?





LXT...........

 

[pdqdl]

That is a whole bunch cheaper than I would work.

If it is all a bunch of underbrush, you could maybe get by at that price with one of the brush cutters.

 

[lxt]

1" dbh - 24 dbh fairly dense in spots, typical multifloral, vines, brush with the occasional opening here n there.

think about where you would go hunting & look around, Now cut it all down except for the trees marked in red & dont cut the pines/ spruces or injure trees beyond the boundaries......machinery has no access!!



LXT..............

 

[pdqdl]

In addition to having been bid too cheap, those spec's don't make any sense.

What is the purpose for the selective clearing, prohibiting machinery, leaving the brush where it falls, and then requiring a bond for a hasty completion date? Is somebody in a hurry to clearcut the trash trees for some sort of ecological reserve?

 

[lxt]

Its to re introduce the aspen specie back into the game lands, the bond is a surety or a keep...but only if you dont complete the contract on time.

Machinery is allowed its just that it would be useless on all sites, you may be able to use it on 4-5 acres but the rest of the sites machinery can not access.

this is through the Pa Game commission, so who knows what its for???



LXT....................

 

[lxt]

One can check out the prospectus at Pa portal website, but you have to register,
check out solicitation #6100014409



LXT..........

 

[Sunrise Guy]

You hit the nail on the head---SWEETHEART CONTRACT!

 

[treesquirrel]

Well I may be expensive but I would not touch that for a dime less that 750.00 per acre sight unseen. That would be me and two other men.

 

[prentice110]

My God! See my mini soda thread. I bid a job a month ago for a 30 year vet. Realitivly flat compared to what your talking about. Probably 40 acres of fence row and where the house was torn down. beautiful job to get and old time clearing pro that worked for us wanted my opinion since he needed me due to selling his big gear due to economy. Was happy to help, but he wanted to give it away to make bills. I said "this is gonna take 60 days, best case senario, we need 1000 a day." He told the guy 43000. I said if you get it dont expect my help. Apperently the next lowest bid was 62000. Owner, big time rich arse, still thought we were too high. Thank god. I'd love to have the 2000+ face cords of Black Cherry, but I dont feel like taking down 2000 foot+ diamiter boxelders and paying the hauling for nothing. Still wainting for more info on that one.

 

[tree md]

Sometimes it's best not to win every bid...

 

[prentice110]

I want the wood , not the job oh wait, ...no, I want a brain, I wish I had a brain! Mr. Wizard! Get me outta here!

 

[lxt]

Well I may be expensive but I would not touch that for a dime less that 750.00 per acre sight unseen. That would be me and two other men.

squirrel, I took the site tour & let me tell ya....3 men would never scratch the surface to finish in time, my bid was in the $1800 - $2000 range & I was unsure about finishing on time.

This is not brush you`re cutting...its trees, brush, multi floral, etc.. & the fact we just had a big snow storm....those game lands will have a ground coating of 2ft or better, I wouldnt take a TREE down for $125.00 let alone an acre.. I dont know??????

61 acres @ $125 an acre, what are you paying your men??? think about that at $8.00 an hour x 3 men @ 8....5 day wks is more than than the bid, not including fuel, bar oil, chains, files, ppe for everyone, work comp, adding the commonwealth as an additional insured, etc... you would literally need to finish in a week...... HOW????


LXT............

 

[mpatch]

I bid a similar job last year for the NFS and it went for $90 an acre. My bid was 130 an acre. 225 acres if I remember correctly. some of it was thick some of it you could easily do 20+ acres in a day with 3 men. same deal though making room for stands of aspen to grow.

 

[John Ellison]

I am curious about this. Was there any estimate as to the average volume or mbf. per acre? That would have a lot to do with it.

 

[lxt]

On this job you will lose 2hrs a day just driving in & then driving out, Ive cut many Row`s in my day & a 4 man crew was lucky to get 2-3 spans a day, I couldnt imagine $90 an acre.........thats crazy!!

just the fuel costs to cut down 61 acres with chainsaws has to be close to $2000.00, I would understand if a hydro ax or mower could be used, but they cant be!!!! this is all by hand....

what kinda field are we in?, an acre for hardly anything, I could mow postage stamp lawns all day long & if you put it into acre format...Id make at least $1000.00 an acre & im on a riding mower by myself!!!!!


LXT............

 

[lxt]

I am curious about this. Was there any estimate as to the average volume or mbf. per acre? That would have a lot to do with it.

Not familiar with what you are asking? I didnt read anything like what you have mentioned....MBF. per acre...not familiar with this??


LXT.................

 

[John Ellison]

mbf is thousand board feet. Just trying to get an idea of the density of the timber.

 

[lxt]

I see, no nothing like that mentioned, its just unreclaimed strip mines approx 1/2 -1 mile in to the gamelands, some of the sections are off the access road while others you have to walk 100yards into the wood line to start.

no wood is to be taken out, its just being left there to rot, also....you may be required to provide white inoculated clover (seed) along with fertilizer & straw thatch to areas that have been rutted by accessing the sites.

the topography of this area is very hilly, the strip mines are shale mounds 10-20 ft high & are of a rolling fashion. also the boundaries are marked & no trees can fall out side of them, if so you must clean it up by putting back in the boundary, some trees within each plot are to be saved & have been marked.....good luck at not hitting them, also the pine grove has growth (mature) within it that needs removed without harming the evergreens (pine/spruce).......to do this properly some of the trees may need to be rigged for cum a long procedure so as to not damage what is to remain.

Ill be bidding on another site this Tues, its 80 acres & over 90% of it is not accessible to any form of machinery, not sure about 4x4 access...they were actually dozing paths for 4x4`s when I took the site tour, dont forget about the snow fall in this area also!!


LXT..............

 

[tree md]

I see, no nothing like that mentioned, its just unreclaimed strip mines approx 1/2 -1 mile in to the gamelands, some of the sections are off the access road while others you have to walk 100yards into the wood line to start.

no wood is to be taken out, its just being left there to rot, also....you may be required to provide white inoculated clover (seed) along with fertilizer & straw thatch to areas that have been rutted by accessing the sites.

the topography of this area is very hilly, the strip mines are shale mounds 10-20 ft high & are of a rolling fashion. also the boundaries are marked & no trees can fall out side of them, if so you must clean it up by putting back in the boundary, some trees within each plot are to be saved & have been marked.....good luck at not hitting them, also the pine grove has growth (mature) within it that needs removed without harming the evergreens (pine/spruce).......to do this properly some of the trees may need to be rigged for cum a long procedure so as to not damage what is to remain.

Ill be bidding on another site this Tues, its 80 acres & over 90% of it is not accessible to any form of machinery, not sure about 4x4 access...they were actually dozing paths for 4x4`s when I took the site tour, dont forget about the snow fall in this area also!!


LXT..............

This is just a thought but I wonder if they could be preparing the area for the reintroduction of Elk. I know they did that with the old strip mines in KY. It sounds like they are trying to reintroduce extinct natural flora to the area, I wonder if they plan to reintroduce fauna as well. Will be interesting to keep an eye on.

As far as the bid, I have gotten to where I don't even like to waste my time bidding government jobs. They always end up giving them to Asplundh who does the jobs for peanuts with cheap illegal labor. I will go toss my hat in the ring but I don't usually expect it to come to fruition.

 

[vandiesel99]

logs?

Is leaving the debris optional? Maybe the guy plans on pulling out all the logs and coming up on that side of the deal? Heli logger