Underbidding: This is getting to be complete nonsense!

[Mike Barcaskey]

well maybe if the ground is so saturated with water that it is essentially mud, than maybe the roots could slide in their space without damage

 

[computeruser]

Are you guys finding that you are having to go lower and lower on your bids these days in order to get work? Is your area experiencing more and more illegals invading it? I'd really like some feedback here. Thanks, in advance.

I think my perspective might be a bit different from a lot of folks here, as I am only an occasional tree guy - one of those "evil" part-timers. The thing is that in the past two months I have had more people calling me up wanting tree services performed than I know what to do with and many that want things done that are way beyond my ability and my equipment. And it is all referrals - I do no advertising.

Maybe I am off-base here, but from what I've seen over the years I believe that what a lot of people are looking for is to be able to cultivate a relationship with the person they hire. Though this doesn't apply to all customers, I do think it applies to more than most folks realize. I have found this to be especially true with older folks, young first-time homeowners, and members of insular minority communities. Years ago, when I was part-timing during my undergraduate years, most of my treecare, fall cleanup, and snow clients were senior citizens. Word of a trustworthy, pleasant service provider travels fast in that group! More recently, I have received a lot of referral business within the gay/lesbian community. I was even joking the other day that I might have to go full-time, and call my business LGBTree.

Another point to consider: like it or not, many highly educated people are very uncomfortable with scruffy blue-collar folks. Many of these people will gladly pay a few dollars more to hire cleancut, english-speaking, non-smoking folks to perform work where these attributes make no real difference in the person's ability to actually perform the job. Though you may not be able to change this sort of prejudice, you can certainly try to capitalize on it.

One last point: creative networking can make a world of difference. By way of example, my father is a realtor and he is always being asked for recommendations for home improvement and yard-related service providers, including arborists. You can also do valuable networking and get free advertising by providing a helping hand to non-profit groups - nature conservancies/nature preserves, private historic sites/cemeteries/parks, etc. Another idea that I think would be interesting would be interesting would be to provide tree care/trimming/heath/etc. presentations to local gardening groups. And one last idea that I've seen done before: see about donating tree-related books to the local library on the condition that your information is inscribed on the inside cover.

Your experiences may differ and some ideas might not work for your particular business, but it is food for thought, anyway.

 

[treeseer]

t
so anytime a tree leans without above ground structural damage, there is root damage.
am I correct in this thinking?

Yeah I agree, but the question is how much, and that's a guess.

DDm if you want standards enforced in Greenville, go to the city council and planning staff and tell em to get the standards written into the ordinance.

It's happening all over. Well, some places anyway.

 

[beowulf343]

I work for a small company. The owner has been in business 20 years and has four crews-2 bucket crews and 2 climbing crews(one trimming and one takedown.) I am foreman of the takedown crew and I have enough work for 50-60 hours a week year around. Alot of this work come from no other company wanting to do the really ugly jobs. Plus around here, everyone has a tree or two in their backyard, so on an average day, I usually have 3 or 4 homeowners stop by the jobsite and ask if a rep can stop by to give an estimate. But i think it helps that we are an established company with good equipment, professional employees, and a proven track record.

On another note, treeminator, how do you keep anybody by paying them only $8 an hour? Around here, even groundmen don't make that little.

 

[treeminator]

On another note, treeminator, how do you keep anybody by paying them only $8 an hour? Around here, even groundmen don't make that little.

it's no different than asking how fast food places keep their employees around for little pay (think of greasy fry cooks at $7/hour). the trick is you have to create a social atmosphere they like. you'd be surprised how much some people value hanging out at a job with firends. i often will hire one guy and then hire 1 or 2 of his friends. that way they work together and are happy. also, the people i tend to hire are NOT money motivated. when they sell, they get $5 per account. then they get to work on them to earn more. again, it's all about them hanging out with their buddies while making enough $$$ to pay the rent.

 

[kennertree]

it's no different than asking how fast food places keep their employees around for little pay (think of greasy fry cooks at $7/hour). the trick is you have to create a social atmosphere they like. you'd be surprised how much some people value hanging out at a job with firends. i often will hire one guy and then hire 1 or 2 of his friends. that way they work together and are happy. also, the people i tend to hire are NOT money motivated. when they sell, they get $5 per account. then they get to work on them to earn more. again, it's all about them hanging out with their buddies while making enough $$$ to pay the rent.

How are they gonna pay the rent making $8 per hour?

 

[clearance]

it's no different than asking how fast food places keep their employees around for little pay (think of greasy fry cooks at $7/hour). the trick is you have to create a social atmosphere they like. you'd be surprised how much some people value hanging out at a job with firends. i often will hire one guy and then hire 1 or 2 of his friends. that way they work together and are happy. also, the people i tend to hire are NOT money motivated. when they sell, they get $5 per account. then they get to work on them to earn more. again, it's all about them hanging out with their buddies while making enough $$$ to pay the rent.

The troll is back, he pays his guys $8hr and makes them pay thier own comp. gives em Craftsman chainsaws, used to give em electric chainsaws, gets climbing rope from ****-depot, brainwashes his guys.... all according to him, alledgedly, all here on search. Stick around cull, you are amusing.

 

[notahacker]

SunRise Guy:

The longer you are in business, the more clients you will make. Try to create "customers for life." According to my phone call list from 2005, 48% of my phone calls last year were from current customers or referrals. (Basically my business is being established). I have only been in business for myself for 3 years now. --My point is: time is on your side. Be patient.

 

[Dadatwins]

it's no different than asking how fast food places keep their employees around for little pay (think of greasy fry cooks at $7/hour). the trick is you have to create a social atmosphere they like. you'd be surprised how much some people value hanging out at a job with firends. i often will hire one guy and then hire 1 or 2 of his friends. that way they work together and are happy. also, the people i tend to hire are NOT money motivated. when they sell, they get $5 per account. then they get to work on them to earn more. again, it's all about them hanging out with their buddies while making enough $$$ to pay the rent.

What :censored: planet is this business located on? Are the gas prices cheaper there?

 

[treeminator]

What :censored: planet is this business located on? Are the gas prices cheaper there?

you're in central Virginia? i'd probably pay them 30% less then based on VA's standard of living compared to FL's.

 

[clearance]

you're in central Virginia? i'd probably pay them 30% less then based on VA's standard of living compared to FL's.

That would be $5.60 an hour, hear that Dadatwins, you are paying way to much, if this cull really has a company, which I highly doubt, it would be cool if someone dropped a 300lb. block on him from about 80' up. "Hey boss, c'mere a second, a quarter dropped outta my jeans, its on the ground right there, under me"

 

[doggonetrees]

I get a lot of my work from referrals after storm work and this helps because the truck is in the neighborhood. I put signs out in the yard that I am working in until completion of job. Got 4 removal jobs and 3 crown reduction jobs from doing charity work at a local church- adjusting tennis court lights and cutting out 5 widow maker limbs. Having the bucket with hydraulic drill attachment helps with the few cabling jobs I have had. And the tree replacement/ fertilization work that I get helps sustain our business. Granted, this is all on a part time basis due to being on active duty until next Jan. I work midnight shift at our gaurd base, which gives me time to bid / work jobs from 8am to 2pm. I haven't lost a bid due to being in a little car, as I show proof of ins., along with a picture album of previous jobs. I have one guy pick up my billets for me, his price is for the wood. My help ers are in landscaping business and they are happy with their pay, as the jobs we go on usually get them business as well.

 

[rebelman]

computeruser is right, often clean cut is all that matters. I lose work all the time to outright hacks who've never done a job to standard in their lives, but they are cute and funny.

 

[beowulf343]

you'd be surprised how much some people value hanging out at a job with firends. i often will hire one guy and then hire 1 or 2 of his friends. that way they work together and are happy.

Huh! I usually go to the job to work. I hang out with friends when the work is done.

 

[hache]

get a grip

If you can't beat em on price, jump over em in quality.

Lots of demand for affordable yet professional tree care, not just cutting. What were you going to do for the rest of the hackberry, after the busted piece got gone? The rest of the crown would need restoration pruning to make a new, stable form. There are pests to check and roots to manage for the tree to recover from the trauma. If the whole tree is not cared for, future breakage is far more likely. If the owner can't see that, either they're blind or dumb or you've failed to educate them. Or all three I guess.

True story: I did an appraisal on a tree hit by a car. On the property I noticed a leaning red oak, 26" dbh. Owner told me it'd been leaning since 1996 hurricane. I saw it leaning on 2 limbs of a nearby white oak. I left him with a $600 bid to reshape the whole crown to lessen the lean, taking off 20% top to bottom to lessen the lean. it was in line to cream his garage and a big magnolia and the high wires if it failed.

Even tho this guy cleaned up on the appraisal --$1900 in his pocket--he called the local utility climber to come do a buzz job. For $300 the hack spiked up the red oak, cut 3 branches, then spiked up the white oak and cut the lower limb that was rubbing the red oak. 2 days later we had a mild rainstorm. You'll never guess what happened...:jawdrop:

Red oak failed, creaming garage and magnolia and wires. Underqualified, uninsured fools, and the worse fools that hire them. I got pics and will start a new thread tomorrow.

Hey mate, if he isnt gonna pay $200 to get his tree sorted by a professional then definitly isnt gonna pay for the rest of the stuff you said i.e. pests to check root damge, give the guy a break, failing to educate him, come on!!!!!!

 

[treeseer]

"if he isnt gonna pay $200 to get his tree sorted by a professional then definitly isnt gonna pay for the rest of the stuff you said i.e. pests to check root damge,"

Many tree owners do not know about tree care. they value the cutting less and less, but that does not mean they can not learn about the value of tree care.

Many won't, I agree, but some will once they learn what it is and how it saves money and trees. Many still think an arborist removes fetuses.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

The bright side is that not everybody wants a low price.

One thing I'm doing now, when I hand bids to people - in certain circumstances, I tell them that them that the bid is free to them for their use only - nobody else's. And, that if they show the bid to another tree company person or landscaper during the bid process, that they will be charged an $80 consulting fee because they are using the bid as a tool.

I also tend to migrate away from low bid customers. Keeping prices up, we weed them out.

Also, I'm trending toward water feature installations these days because the license in Oregon requires a test and it's much, much harder to become licensed as a landscaper; low bid or high bid mentality.

Landscape work tends to be in view for several days or a few weeks, so it's a very hard trade to work illegally in here. Most illegal landscapers get turned in in almost no time at all. Our tree work requires virtually no testing and almost anybody can get the construction contractors board license needed for that in a matter or days.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

OK, I know our business is getting glutted these days with more and more tree guys and gals. I also know that illegals are willing to work for very little pay. With that in mind, I have been bidding very low (as I see it) on work in my area, but still getting underbid. I'm honestly wondering if I'm going to keep trying to make my living doing this thing that I love. .

No point ranting or expecting sympathy here bro ,most of the guys here are happy to see poor little Mexicans steal the food rite off your plate! most here are more liberal than liberal and lefter than left..

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

I have wondered why your president has nuked your constitutional rights in the name of safety and security, but anyone can just walk across the borders from either Canada or Mexico. From what I understand the proliferation of illegal (cheap because it is illegal) labor is what people with say want, how could it be any other way? Servants, maids, gardeners in California who are illegal have been around for many years, is it any real suprise it has finally moved to treework?

Here's a prime example..

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

many customers have told me "we hired you for a little more money because we felt safer / more secure using you".

Your telling us your clients don't feel safe hiring Hatian's and Latino's..wow you better be carefull saying things like that around here...:greenchainsaw: