Underbidding: This is getting to be complete nonsense!

[avalontree]

Are you guys finding that you are having to go lower and lower on your bids these days in order to get work? Is your area experiencing more and more illegals invading it? I'd really like some feedback here. Thanks, in advance.[/QUOTE]

Where I am there aren't too many tree businesses. There is one guy who like does it all and has it all; he's all set. BUt for guys like me, who dont do this full time anymore, there is some strange competition. One guy in the area will do a job for like hundreds less than I would do. I have to speculte because I have only seen one job he did and what the price was for. I have no idea if he has insurance or what he does, but it is frustrating to be crazy underbid.

I like the outdo him in quality comment. Problem is gettin the job to show the quality. The other challenge is being to do a job that shows quality, i.e once you remove the tree you will never work on that tree again.

 

[Grizzly]

Are you guys finding that you are having to go lower and lower on your bids these days in order to get work? Is your area experiencing more and more illegals invading it? I'd really like some feedback here. Thanks, in advance.

Where I am there aren't too many tree businesses. There is one guy who like does it all and has it all; he's all set. BUt for guys like me, who dont do this full time anymore, there is some strange competition. One guy in the area will do a job for like hundreds less than I would do. I have to speculte because I have only seen one job he did and what the price was for. I have no idea if he has insurance or what he does, but it is frustrating to be crazy underbid.

I like the outdo him in quality comment. Problem is gettin the job to show the quality. The other challenge is being to do a job that shows quality, i.e once you remove the tree you will never work on that tree again.[/QUOTE]

You need to talk to the guy and see what hes all about. He must be new to the industry and dosn't know what it's going for. theres a guy i had subed some stuff out to, and he stole the job. i was so pissed and i wouldn't mind seeing his P.O.S. truck made into a fire pit from where it sits.:censored: :bang:

 

[avalontree]

I think my perspective might be a bit different from a lot of folks here, as I am only an occasional tree guy - one of those "evil" part-timers. The thing is that in the past two months I have had more people calling me up wanting tree services performed than I know what to do with and many that want things done that are way beyond my ability and my equipment. And it is all referrals - I do no advertising.

Maybe I am off-base here, but from what I've seen over the years I believe that what a lot of people are looking for is to be able to cultivate a relationship with the person they hire. Though this doesn't apply to all customers, I do think it applies to more than most folks realize. I have found this to be especially true with older folks, young first-time homeowners, and members of insular minority communities. Years ago, when I was part-timing during my undergraduate years, most of my treecare, fall cleanup, and snow clients were senior citizens. Word of a trustworthy, pleasant service provider travels fast in that group! More recently, I have received a lot of referral business within the gay/lesbian community. I was even joking the other day that I might have to go full-time, and call my business LGBTree.

Another point to consider: like it or not, many highly educated people are very uncomfortable with scruffy blue-collar folks. Many of these people will gladly pay a few dollars more to hire cleancut, english-speaking, non-smoking folks to perform work where these attributes make no real difference in the person's ability to actually perform the job. Though you may not be able to change this sort of prejudice, you can certainly try to capitalize on it.

One last point: creative networking can make a world of difference. By way of example, my father is a realtor and he is always being asked for recommendations for home improvement and yard-related service providers, including arborists. You can also do valuable networking and get free advertising by providing a helping hand to non-profit groups - nature conservancies/nature preserves, private historic sites/cemeteries/parks, etc. Another idea that I think would be interesting would be interesting would be to provide tree care/trimming/heath/etc. presentations to local gardening groups. And one last idea that I've seen done before: see about donating tree-related books to the local library on the condition that your information is inscribed on the inside cover.

Your experiences may differ and some ideas might not work for your particular business, but it is food for thought, anyway.

well written

 

[avalontree]

]"if he isnt gonna pay $200 to get his tree sorted by a professional then definitly isnt gonna pay for the rest of the stuff you said i.e. pests to check root damge,"

Many tree owners do not know about tree care. they value the cutting less and less, but that does not mean they can not learn about the value of tree care.

Many won't, I agree, but some will once they learn what it is and how it saves money and trees.

Many still think an arborist removes fetuses.

Hadn't thought of it that way, but that's dead-on accurate. seems like lots of people love their frackin lawns, but the trees don't count. Maybe their necks dont work

 

[avalontree]

touche

Hmmmmmmmm



ummm am i missing something?

touche

 

[avalontree]

people size each other up

the appearence of success is often the most important part of success, for good or for bad.

We all have our prejudices.
Even trees too.
Walnuts kill other trees.
Box elders rise like Darth Vader and take all of thes un.
and then there is the whole cedar/apple rust problem.

 

[Grizzly]

well written

door to door in a nice niighborhood works just as well.

 

[clearance]

Actually, I googled "tree trimming butcher" and it brought that up as a bad trimming, I'll see if I can find a link again, but definately wrong geographical area. Ashpluhde has been doing some serious hacking in my area lately...looks very similar, except they don't have everything gone up top, they leave a couple 3 foot nubs.

Spelled Asplundh. Why are the utility guys the whipping boy? I wish whenever some dogooder complained the tree in question was cut down, right then and there. Do you like your power, like it when the lights work, STFU. Next time Asplundh comes by to trim, take them a case of beer and thank them, they help provide a service you would find very hard to live without.

 

[Grizzly]

Spelled Asplundh. Why are the utility guys the whipping boy? I wish whenever some dogooder complained the tree in question was cut down, right then and there. Do you like your power, like it when the lights work, STFU. Next time Asplundh comes by to trim, take them a case of beer and thank them, they help provide a service you would find very hard to live without.

5 out of 10 customers ask if I want a beer, after I have the place all cleaned up. If i took every offer, I would be a stumbaling drunk by now.
so i can bounce off the walls!

 

[Climb020]

Spelled Asplundh. Why are the utility guys the whipping boy? I wish whenever some dogooder complained the tree in question was cut down, right then and there. Do you like your power, like it when the lights work, STFU. Next time Asplundh comes by to trim, take them a case of beer and thank them, they help provide a service you would find very hard to live without.

I would much rather have them cut down then trimmed the way line clearance guys do. One I have in mind is Nelson's. Better to have nothing then a ugly, useless, hat rack. Leaving the pruning to guys/gals that know what they are doing and let the line men cut the trees down near the wires then leave us with an eyesore of a road side.:angry2:

 

[daveyclimber]

I would much rather have them cut down then trimmed the way line clearance guys do. One I have in mind is Nelson's. Better to have nothing then a ugly, useless, hat rack. Leaving the pruning to guys/gals that know what they are doing and let the line men cut the trees down near the wires then leave us with an eyesore of a road side.:angry2:

Do you realize that in most cases the "Trimmer" has no say in the way a tree is trimmed for utilities sake? Didn't think so! Yes I agree that many yearly trims should be removed but they won't in many cases because the Power Co doesn't want to be labled as tree killers or they don't want to pay . Do you realize that these companies only get paid $25 or so for a trim and probably up to 8 times that for some removals. Do you see the price difference?
I did utility work for many years, I know the ins and outs of the business and it is very competitive and cuthroat. Take your comments to the Power Companies

 

[TreeTopKid]

]"if he isnt gonna pay $200 to get his tree sorted by a professional then definitly isnt gonna pay for the rest of the stuff you said i.e. pests to check root damge,"

Many tree owners do not know about tree care. they value the cutting less and less, but that does not mean they can not learn about the value of tree care.

Many won't, I agree, but some will once they learn what it is and how it saves money and trees.
Hadn't thought of it that way, but that's dead-on accurate. seems like lots of people love their frackin lawns, but the trees don't count. Maybe their necks dont work

True. Many of my customers in the UK (Im in the USA now) called me in to have there tree removed untill they were re-educated about it's value, and have grown to love their tree. I then go back time, and again for the maintenance. Very often when people call you in to fell a tree it's just because they are at a loss as to what to do about their garden and usually appreciate the advice. Thats why you should always offer free advice when you advertise. Free advice has gained me many customers.

 

[avalontree]

liverpool

I used lived in Liverpool for about a year, before I ever got into climbing, and now I wish i could go back for that same amount of time to check out the amazing history of trees in you country!

first thing I noticed was how green it was!

 

[TreeTopKid]

I used lived in Liverpool for about a year, before I ever got into climbing, and now I wish i could go back for that same amount of time to check out the amazing history of trees in you country!

first thing I noticed was how green it was!

True it is very green. But I was amazed at how green Texas was when arrived too there's some good sized Pines here. That tree on my avitar was a one off though. It was a large Black Poplar over 130ft but sadly the roots were rotten and it had to go.

Looking forward to starting work here now. You should try to get back to England for a trip if you can Forest of Dean and Nottingham forest are really nice. Also the New forest in Hampshire is beautiful. Nice speaking with you.

 

[Grizzly]

Maybe they will, if they look hard enough to find out support was removed during pruning. Truth is, they do not look too closely at trees when they are standing.
An overall reduction of the sprawling side would have bought indefinite years, but if the client was not happy with the risk I would not have advocated against removal; too high a target rating.

aS it was, he was a pennypincher who got what he deserved for making Lincoln squeal so painfully.

No stem/root damage evident from the outside, but significant decay inside, likely from construction 18 yrs before.

dont let that cheep scate degrade you for you serices. If he isn't willing to pay what you say, then let him do it him self. When he dose that, he'll hopefully understand why it was that much. Don't get jipt. I learned the hard way

 

[ClimbingHigh]

Sunrise don't think you're alone. Alot of people have the same situation going on. (yours is the most read thread with over 3000 people. That should tell you something.) I think your location has alot to do with your specific reason for having to fight so hard with the underbidding. Since the "if you cant beat em join em" idea would not be a good idea bidding wise. If the unskilled masses that are willing to do daylabor (or the like) are flooding your market, then as a business owner, you can capitlize on the lower cost labor if you need to compete on price. It doesn't seem to me that this trend of people "commuting" or even living "lean" to work where the pay is better and then go home to see their pay triple or quadruple in buying power, will stop anytime soon especially since you are living in one of the wealthiest countries in the world and maybe closer than the rest of us to a county, hell a continent that is not. I feel for you, and know how it is to a degree. But the main thing is that you can do what you love, you just have to adapt. Adapting to a new situation is what you do all the time in the tree, so use that same fire down on the ground. As an entrepreneur you can probably do better for yourself by just getting out of the flood and going where they can't. Things like Corp. contracts, high-end customers, and government contracts....that sort of thing.
When it comes down to it maybe the low bid competitors just don't know. You could even work at the problem from the inside by networking and subbing some of the not so technical work to your low bid competitors.

This problem is just like most peoples first tree. Just don't freeze up or come down chances are you can still do what you love.

Good luck to you.

 

[Grizzly]

It's nice to make $60 an hour when your really hauling ass. Yet when you have some hack degrading you as an individual and your job, what do you do?
I can't dump my debris in his truck when it's parked on the street. It would releave the high dump costs and gain a bit of revenge, but it wont help the situation in getting rid of this guy underbidding everyone on the block.

not only thatv but how can you get all of those cheep day labor tree trimmers to woork for you at what they may tell the customer when they get to the job or better yet if the roach off of your new clients. What happens than when there out with your tools, truck and chipper and working for penuts. It just becomes a tug of way between you the worker and the customer. What happens then?

 

[Manco]

What do you do when you underbid yourself? I recently did a job where I was the only bidder, got the job, and was happy with the rate I made. Halfway through the job the client tells me he was expecting me to charge more than double what I quoted him !

 

[Grizzly]

I've done that before and I typically kick my self for being such a low bidder. it's not like I'm after their money but a few more bills wouldn't hurt to make the job more profitable.:notrolls2:

 

[RolloriClimber]

I think no matter how good you are at pricing you still will underbid a job on occasion you just have to take the good with the bad.

Ther are guys by me that bid way low which they don't get it hurts all of us when they bid low.My old boss called me the other day he was in a bind and asked me to do 3 estimates for him. I did a got every one one of the estimates was waiting to get 3 more bids I was $ 150 higher than all the others and still got the job.my old boss used to drive me crazy with under bidding . He could figure out how I would get the jobs at doubling his price, I told him I tell the people the truth and what is going to happen and what could happen and don't blow no smoke up their butts.

My friend and his partner where doing a job and it went a lot quicker than they expected and his partner said the customer asked if we could take some off the price since it is going so quickly.My friend told his partner would he pay us more if it took longer?