Underbidding

[2FatGuys]

Mcfly.....their not overbidding, they have operational expenses, Insurance, W.comp, medicare, SS, Medicaid, U employment, software & book keeping, maintenance, etc.... things you dont have or know any thing about!!
When was your last quarterly audit?
LXT.............

When a job can be done, for a competitive cost of $1500 (quoted by two independant small services - not hacks) and the big guys quote $2500 and proceed to verbally bash the other bidders, that is overbidding.

Insurance - check...
W. Comp. - check...
Fica - check...
U employeement - not necessary in our partnership type
Software & book keeping - check...
Quarterly audit - (ouch) check... 3Q 07

I keep trying to tell you... we aren't "Bubba's Tree and Tax Service"... just the smallest group willing to take the verbal bashing here!

 

[tree MDS]

You asked about the "hands on training"... that was the 10 years prior to moving into architecture (22 years ago). I have never stopped doing tree work, so have no need to "infiltrate the field". I negotiated a 4 day work week in order to continue doing the tree work. If you had read my other posts, you would notice that I only do removals and mostly tough ones requiring climbing where no bucket truck has access. I also pointed out that if a job is better done with bucket or crane, I turn it over to those so equipped. We do, however do quite a few large ones. In the past few weeks, some of what we have done: a 56" DBH silver maple (over a house, a shed and a fence); a pair of 52"+ DBH willow oaks (partially over a house); a 38" DBH red oak (with lightening damaged core and near a house on the lean side); 30+ pines along a fence line (8"-22" DBH); and several wind damage clean up jobs. We may be part-time, but we aren't the "Bubba's Tree and Tax Service" type guys I've referred to.

Tree service didn't make me money then... because I was an employee being paid less than fair wage. Tree service makes money for me now because I bid smart and choose jobs that other people can't do as well. Sorry... I'm not doing the crap that makes you so mad. I guess my attempt to show the difference between underbidding and lowballing failed to get the point across.

Yes, you have failed to get your point accross, seems like you're just tryin to sugar coat it Mike.

 

[lxt]

You asked about the "hands on training"... that was the 10 years prior to moving into architecture (22 years ago). I have never stopped doing tree work, so have no need to "infiltrate the field". I negotiated a 4 day work week in order to continue doing the tree work. If you had read my other posts,

Read post #137...........I have read your other posts, I dont consider 3 days a week roughly 4 months a year as giving you the experience you think you have...........far from 30yrs my man!! maybe your boss didnt pay you well cause you werent that good or very green?

yeah I read you do all the big ones!!!! when I posted saying what I did I was told to provide Pic`s..... anyone who has been in this field for any length of time has done Big ones.


LXT..........

 

[2FatGuys]

Yes, you have failed to get your point accross, seems like you're just tryin to sugar coat it Mike.

Nah... I'm not pumping sunshine up anyone's skirt. There are just a bunch of assumptions made when someone admits to being part-time or not owning a bucket truck. It's been fun stringing those assumptions along. The funny part is that a big part of my work is passed to me by two local companies that prefer to do bucket work and don't want the poor access sites ( the same companies I pass bucket and crane work to). They are staying SWAMPED because the two larger local companies that over extended their credit are pricing things way too high for the market. It won't be long before they come back to where they used to be with prices or they'll go away.

 

[lxt]

When a job can be done, for a competitive cost of $1500 (quoted by two independant small services - not hacks) and the big guys quote $2500 and proceed to verbally bash the other bidders, that is overbidding.

Insurance - check...
W. Comp. - check...
Fica - check...
U employeement - not necessary in our partnership type
Software & book keeping - check...
Quarterly audit - (ouch) check... 3Q 07

I keep trying to tell you... we aren't "Bubba's Tree and Tax Service"... just the smallest group willing to take the verbal bashing here!

Insurance- check
W. Comp- you`re full of :censored: you are a partnership & therefore Comp would be just like Unemployment!

Fica- you are a partnership? you know you are being double taxed if you are paying this individually as your biz pays it too! are you a legal partnership? cause you guys might want to check with an accountant.

Im not gonna keep :sword: with ya!! but from what you just posted here, you have some issues, did you get package 1096 for taxes this year?

You pay Fica but not SS, medicare, medicaid.........funny no mention of these my software takes it out of my guys & me.....its law!! you have some holes in your story or im paying for things Im told I have too & dont!!


LXT..................

 

[Blakesmaster]

Looks like you got a lot of "experience" today LXT. I thought everyone had cooled on this thread and had begun to develop enough respect for one another to joke around and have fun. Just so you know, while you've obviously been here all day, I went to work...in the rain...doing what us "super-trimmers" do best. Working our a//es off.

 

[TDunk]

Looks like you got a lot of "experience" today LXT. I thought everyone had cooled on this thread and had begun to develop enough respect for one another to joke around and have fun. Just so you know, while you've obviously been here all day, I went to work...in the rain...doing what us "super-trimmers" do best. Working our a//es off.

Everyone had cooled down this morning then all h#ll broke loose. I just kept my 2 cents to myself. I'm just a part time super trimmer like you Blake,so i didn't feel like getting into it with the "full timers". Rain??? no thanks

 

[tree MDS]

Looks like you got a lot of "experience" today LXT. I thought everyone had cooled on this thread and had begun to develop enough respect for one another to joke around and have fun. Just so you know, while you've obviously been here all day, I went to work...in the rain...doing what us "super-trimmers" do best. Working our a//es off.

Nice thing about being self employed is you have EARNED the privelege to not have to work in the rain unless for some sick reason you want to. Its a perk of having the balls/putting in enough real workie time in to start you're own thing.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Oh well. We can't all like each other, I s'pose. I'm just happy to get my soggy boots off.

 

[Blakesmaster]

FYI, I volunteered to come in today. Ya know, to get more experience.

 

[lxt]

Looks like you got a lot of "experience" today LXT. I thought everyone had cooled on this thread and had begun to develop enough respect for one another to joke around and have fun. Just so you know, while you've obviously been here all day, I went to work...in the rain...doing what us "super-trimmers" do best. Working our a//es off.

Blake, I took today off.....thank god it poured where I live!! I was just trying to defend & explain from a full time standpoint why bids may vary!

dont worry I`ll be out there tommorrow & have been out there in far worse than this!! I respect everybody in this trade......but dont start off by talking about underbidding & then trying to reason your methods!

Hey if it works for you, godbless ya! & you should be working unlike us full time legit , tax paying, over bidding, legal labor using, knowing what it costs, paying our men a decent wage & benefits greeeeeeedy types!!!!!

by the way Wed are pay day & I had to do payroll!!!!! sorry I missed the rain.

Peace......

Take Care Be Safe

LXT...................

 

[lxt]

FYI, I volunteered to come in today. Ya know, to get more experience.

thats good keep you from getting a DUI, Now did you climb or do ground work? either way dude be safe & take care!!!!!

LXT..........

 

[corndogg]

I can't believe I just sat here and read all of that! Yikes It's 50 degrees and sunny here, not a call all day. Just Crickets

 

[Blakesmaster]

Thought somebody'd bring that up soon.

And I never called you guys greedy and have nothing but respect for people that do this full time. Hope to be one myself someday. The way I see it though, if you do a good, safe job and most importantly LIKE what it is you do, who cares what you do with the rest of your time or what you charge a customer? If you can't hack it being full time, quit yer bellyachin' and find a new career. Or get some new equipment that keeps you competitive.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Groundwork, btw.

 

[capetrees]

Just as a side note, as far as bidding/underbidding, what is a comfortable number to earn in a day for any of you guys, small outifts I mean. Is it $500, $1000, $1500? Supposing you could get the job done in a day, one guy in the tree, one on the ground, what should you expect to make from that crew? Elm tree, pine tree, ten trees, two trees, what ever the job, done in one day or day by day, what is a good/fair days earnings where you feel comfortable, not cheaped out and not making a killing? Just wondering if I'm too cheap, overpriced or just right. For me BTW, If I can walk away with $1000 gross on the day, I'm real happy. $600 gross, satisfied but could be better.

 

[Blakesmaster]

You're cheaper than me, cape. We usually have three guys though. One in the tree, one on the ground, and the other one bouncing back and forth as needed. I like to average at least $100 per hour for all three of us and our equipment.

 

[tree MDS]

FYI, I volunteered to come in today. Ya know, to get more experience.

 

[tree MDS]

You're cheaper than me, cape. We usually have three guys though. One in the tree, one on the ground, and the other one bouncing back and forth as needed. I like to average at least $100 per hour for all three of us and our equipment.

He has'nt learned to figure in the cost of all the new fangled ropes or saddle that he's recently purchased.

 

[ropensaddle]

Just as a side note, as far as bidding/underbidding, what is a comfortable number to earn in a day for any of you guys, small outifts I mean. Is it $500, $1000, $1500? Supposing you could get the job done in a day, one guy in the tree, one on the ground, what should you expect to make from that crew? Elm tree, pine tree, ten trees, two trees, what ever the job, done in one day or day by day, what is a good/fair days earnings where you feel comfortable, not cheaped out and not making a killing? Just wondering if I'm too cheap, overpriced or just right. For me BTW, If I can walk away with $1000 gross on the day, I'm real happy. $600 gross, satisfied but could be better.

750.00 bare minimum 1250.00 feel happy two men my bucket and
grapple truck but 3500. is what I shoot for
Problem is; don't get many jobs here for much over the minimum!
Customers for the most part, don't understand what it takes to
operate two commercial trucks that one tire will be 400.00.