Using figure 8 to rig?

[Bykerkyle]

is it possible to use just a figure eight tied to the base of a tree to lower branches? Im only lowering branches that would be at most 300 lbs. The problem i have is that there is a power line beside the branch. the branch is probably 10 feet away from the power line, but if i were to fell the branch it would swing out to far and hit the power line. So I wish to tie the rigging line to the top of the branch then cut it at its base. The line will be pulled tight keeping the branch from falling on the power line. I will also have a line put between where i cut it so that the base wont swing out over into the power line. so when im done cutting i can lower the branch down beside the power line. So you think i can use a figure eight for the job? it should hold the weight of a 300 pound branch especially because there will also be friction in my redirects. Does this sound like a good idea or should i do something else. This branch is maybe 3 or 4 inches in diameter and probably 10 ft long.

here are some pics that i drew up of the situation.

View attachment 34666

View attachment 34668

 

[rbtree]

One, a branch that size sounds more like 50-100 lb. Two, though an 8 will work, it is a bit hard to take up slack with it, as your drawing shows you pulling the branch up and sideways away from the line. Suggest adding a pulley on your overhead anchor, then it'll be easy to lift the limb.

Three, what kind of power line is this? Top of the pole is where the primaries are, don't mess with them. A service line to a house is less of a problem.

Four, are you a working arborist? Doesn't sound like it from the questions, unless you are just inexperienced.

regardless, be extra careful.

 

[ddhlakebound]

A couple questions first....

Is this a 7600 volt single phase line, or bigger?

Are you qualified for line clearance trimming?
If not, stop even considering it.

If its a service drop to a house or shop, you can probably have the utility company disconnect it while the work is performed.

Based on your diagram, it does not appear the tree is hot/burning, I'm curious as to your reasoning for wanting to trim it yourself. If it's a single phase line or larger, call the utility company, and sooner or later they will get to it, at no cost to you.

As for your plan for the trim:

I'm by no means the most qualified person to advise on this situation. That said, I'll offer my 2 cents.

It is basically a pretty good plan, as long as everything works perfectly. If it doesnt, then you could be in big trouble......because if for any reason the tip is not controlled, it will drop and probably catch on the hot line, with the butt of the limb still attached, either directly or indirectly through the butt tie. This could result in the tree, and the climber being electrified, or electrocuted.

The friction you are wanting to use in lowering the limb (figure 8) will be a large hindrance in raising the tip of the limb, even moreso if you are rigging directly off a higher branch without a FS, pulley, or block.

If it were me, and I absolutely had to do this, I think I would use electrically rated pruner pole/jerksaw and remove small branches from the limb individually, and allow them to freefall. Very small, piece by piece, not even tiny crotches to hang up in the line. Then trim off ten to twelve inch pieces of the limb until you are clear, and can simply cut and lower the rest of the limb.

This way the worst you can do is bounce a couple small chunks off the line, or hang a small branch and knock out the power. Not what you want to do, but much better than the possibility of a hot tree with a climber in it.

Like I said at the top.....If you are not qualified for line clearance trimming, stop now. Better yet, go find yourself some pictures of high voltage electrical injuries, then think it over again.

 

[treeminator]

i recently took down a bunch of small trees on the side of a house. each one would land on the insulated line/cable and nothing happened. these were the cable/electric lines that ran from the poles to the house panel.

what's the deal with those. as long as they remain insulated their ok right?

 

[ddhlakebound]

i recently took down a bunch of small trees on the side of a house. each one would land on the insulated line/cable and nothing happened. these were the cable/electric lines that ran from the poles to the house panel.

what's the deal with those. as long as they remain insulated their ok right?

Ummmmmmm........................NO

There are many, many variables which can transfer high voltage to low voltage lines. If its conductive, and you are working around it, consider it potentially lethal.

Treeminator, if you get yourself maimed or killed through your own ignorance, well thats your own fault. But you are out there "teaching" (as if) ex burger flippers and fry cooks, who must have some level of trust in you. You do not have the knowledge necessary to put others at risk. And this is coming from a guy who hasn't been in this business for long.

 

[Ekka]

what's the deal with those. as long as they remain insulated their ok right?

They dont classify them as insulated ... they're coated.

Treat them as live wires coz the coating could be worn off, rubbed off, pecked off, burned off etc and you wouldn't know till ZAP ZAP!

It's the old I got away with it this time, and next time and so on till one day you have a dodgey one. So treat them all as dodgey and you'll live to be an old man.

Bykerkyle,

Just be carefull when tip tying, you will be above the wires and your lanyard/ropes etc might contact. You shouldn't have a wire core lanyard for starters and 10' is a no go zone so keep that distance.

With the butt tie, good idea but here's a better one. See the diagram, tie the butt and just have a rope on it to the ground but have it go over a higher limb etc. Your way the thing will be stuck up there unless you untie it.

We call this butt retention, and the guy on the rope gets called "butt boy" ... usually the job of the most inexperienced due the skill level required.:biggrinbounce2:

Also make sure you cut a shallow V notch facing up and the back cut goes underneath. You want the faces of that notch closing before the tip tied branch hits the pulley or the branch above it ... if it goes premature dont worry, butt boys job is to prevent the butt swinging out into the wires.

You know you could also slew that branch but we'll save that for another day.

 

[beowulf343]

i recently took down a bunch of small trees on the side of a house. each one would land on the insulated line/cable and nothing happened. these were the cable/electric lines that ran from the poles to the house panel.

what's the deal with those. as long as they remain insulated their ok right?

It's not just the electricity in these lines you have to worry about. I once lost control of a limb and it accidently landed right on the service drop. It pulled the line down but also took a HUGE chunk of siding off the house where it was connected before running to the house panel. My boss ended up having to reside that entire side of the house--he wasn't very happy.

 

[Bykerkyle]

the situation is that i might be able to drop the branch down beside the power line, but im not sure if there is enough clearance. The power line is atleast 10 ft away from the branch, but if i were to cut it and let it swing out it might swing to wide and hit the power line. Hence if i tied off the top it wouldnt swing out as far missing the power line and allowing me to drop the branch beside the power line.

 

[woodchux]

My .02

Watch out for that butt swinging back at you when you tip tie limbs.
The first time i tip and butt tied a limb , it swung back just enough to nearly hit me.The line brushed by my side, catching in the little snap used for hanging the saw on. There i was , in the tree snapped to the rigging, and could not get that 1/2" line out of the snap. I had to actually take off my saddle in the tree! Its been a few years ago, and i've learned alot of new tricks ,but i will never forget that day!

Be Safe !

 

[DDM]

Why dont you tie off to the tip of the branch run it higher into the tree tie off the end off the branch? Cut from the bottom have the groundie pull the branch tip up thru the 8 to lift it away from the ZAP ZAPline.
of course I'm probably missing something in the description.

 

[jmack]

is it possible to use just a figure eight tied to the base of a tree to lower branches? Im only lowering branches that would be at most 300 lbs. The problem i have is that there is a power line beside the branch. the branch is probably 10 feet away from the power line, but if i were to fell the branch it would swing out to far and hit the power line. So I wish to tie the rigging line to the top of the branch then cut it at its base. The line will be pulled tight keeping the branch from falling on the power line. I will also have a line put between where i cut it so that the base wont swing out over into the power line. so when im done cutting i can lower the branch down beside the power line. So you think i can use a figure eight for the job? it should hold the weight of a 300 pound branch especially because there will also be friction in my redirects. Does this sound like a good idea or should i do something else. This branch is maybe 3 or 4 inches in diameter and probably 10 ft long.

here are some pics that i drew up of the situation.
View attachment 34666

View attachment 34668

brother berkley if you are thinking about an eight to rig and your gonna try it around power. the ? is why??? call for a bucket or invest in some safer rigging gear

live to climb/rig to live

 

[clearance]

Omfg

Clearance here, certified utility arborist, not an ISA utilty specialist, the real deal, 1200 hours practical, 6 weeks in school over two years, tests, etc. Treeminator, you first, your retardation can be funny, not here. Basically Kyle, get some qualified help, call up the power outfit, they should send someone to see you. My limit on lines under 12kv is 3', up to and including 25kv, 4'. Thats because I am trained, thats why its 10' for you. I don't want to hear about you getting fried, look after yourself first.

 

[Bykerkyle]

thanks for all your feed back. i feel i will end up having someone else do this job due to the danger involved but i was curious if i would be able to pull it off. I dont need to get electricuted. Thanks.

 

[Ekka]

Ahhh, you would've pulled it off easy. Guys like Clearance are made out of the same stuff as you ... flesh and bone.

If it's 3' for him and 10' for you it means there's a gross safety factor greater than 7 feet and if you stay outside of the 10' zone and everything you cut stayed outside of the 10' zone you were working within the rules ... no training required.

Believe me, he uses the same gear and goes 7' closer so it's not the gear but the knowledge that lets you get close. But all you have to remember is 10', 10', 10' etc, now remember that's for low voltage (12kv or less)

So be careful when people trump up the odds and scare you some, you, your gear, the piece you cut stay outside of the 10' zone you are operating legally and withing your limits. That one was a cinch and now some-ones gonna get an easy one.

 

[clearance]

Freddy Kilovolt

But all you have to remember is 10', 10', 10' etc, now remember that's for low voltage (12kv or less)

12kv (12 000 volts) is high voltage, everywhere, I believe. The line for low voltage crossing to high voltage varies by country, state or province. Here in BC it is 750 volts. The service drop to your house from the transformer or secondary lines is 240 volts (two lines at 120 and a bare ground), these lines have plastic on them, no garuantee of safety, I have seen these lines with bare spots after they rubbed on trees for years. People have been killed from contact with 120 volts, some people have survived contact with over 12-25 kv, the power in these high votage lines blew them away, off the point of contact. They lived, often losing a hand or being internally or externally burned. Some guys have touched, the power entered through a hand and exited through their foot. My buddy had a lot of flesh burned off his calves when he indirectly contacted a 25kv line. It is a big deal, when people give you advice about working around power, ask them "what qualifies you to speak about this subject?"

 

[ddhlakebound]

Ahhh, you would've pulled it off easy. Guys like Clearance are made out of the same stuff as you ... flesh and bone.

If it's 3' for him and 10' for you it means there's a gross safety factor greater than 7 feet and if you stay outside of the 10' zone and everything you cut stayed outside of the 10' zone you were working within the rules ... no training required.

Believe me, he uses the same gear and goes 7' closer so it's not the gear but the knowledge that lets you get close. But all you have to remember is 10', 10', 10' etc, now remember that's for low voltage (12kv or less)

So be careful when people trump up the odds and scare you some, you, your gear, the piece you cut stay outside of the 10' zone you are operating legally and withing your limits. That one was a cinch and now some-ones gonna get an easy one.

No disrespect intended, ekka, but there are some things here which are unknown.

First and foremost, bykerkyle's experience level. To say that "he could have pulled it off easily" seems irresponsible to me.

Without being told, how can you know that both are using the same gear, or even using the same gear in very similar ways.

Bykerkyle used alot of may's and might's in his description of the trim. Working around power is not the place to say "It may clear", or it "might be ok", even moreso when a climber is in the tree in question.

And the guy who is "gonna get an easy one" will probably be a line clearance trimmer for the power company. Doing his job.

We still haven't heard the reason bykerkyle wanted to undertake this risk, when he can have a qualified person with the right equipment do it for free, but he seems to have made a wise decision.

 

[Bykerkyle]

This was my parents house and they needed the whole tree removed and i have taken down many trees before but i have never had to deal with a power line so close before. So i wanted to make sure i wouldnt kill myself in the process if i did undergo this project. Which everyone did convince me that i better leave this up to someone that knows a little more than me about these situations.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Bykerkyle, is it the service line to the house, or the distribution line out by the road?

If it's the service drop to the house, the utility co. should drop the line for you to do the work, then hook it back up, at no charge.

If it's the distribution line,tell them you are wanting the tree gone and ask them what they will do, and go from there. At the least they will probably trim the tree so you have plenty of clearance to finish the job, at best they may trim it below line level, or drop it to the ground.

Time to call the power co.

 

[coydog]

some key points that I see...
This branch is overhang, so IMO it's not "clear" even if it is technically 10 feet away.
The description and questions asked about tip tying were good, this leads me to believe that you haven't done a lot of tip tying before, which can be tricky, probably the most common mistake is not tying the rope out far enough and having the branch flip, there are many other tricks that factor in when doing this type of rigging that can only be got from experience. My advice, practice tip tying the next time you have to cut a branch over a roof or fence, please not a power line.
you can lower on a figure eight but it's a pain in the butt, causes lots of friction, and simply using a wrap on the trunk will give you and the groundman better control.

 

[coydog]

... no training required.

There are very few aspects of tree work that this statement applies to, but especially not rigging around power lines, even if it is just outside of 10'