Idahonative
Addicted to ArboristSite
With a Governor like Herbert, Utah will look like California, Oregon, and Washington in short order.
UTAH Wood Burning Ban
- Thread starter huntindog1
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It's the ostrich approach. It'll go away, really.
Then there's water, just less available, except maybe in the PNW where growing fungi is really easy. West of 100 deg longitude, they mostly have groundwater, and less every year. Be prepared to recycle your sewage for drinking water.
There is a limit to the carrying capacity of the land. Darwin rules.
Idahonative
Addicted to ArboristSite
The next thing you know, Governor Herbert will be pushing to legalize pot. Of course there will be an exemption in the law so pot smoke isn't classified as a pollutant. This will generate more tax base for the State so Utah can hand out subsidies to the poor to help them pay to heat their homes with gas and electric. Utah: Rewriting what it means to be conservative.
Not always. We are having another strange winter without much snowpack yet. The eastside of the state will hurt if we don't get more snow because they depend on it for irrigation. We all depend on it for power. Last year the mountains got dumped on in February and March and reached the normal amount. Also, what falls in Canada affects our power and irrigation too. It is the watershed of the Columbia.
Our economy is built on growth. Politicians make me shudder when they talk about "growth". I don't care for the population growth that is ongoing in this corner of the country. Don't move here.
I imagine that the pot smoke already exists and legalizing it won't increase it, it'll just be less people in the legal system.
You quoted it correctly "Any ban would not be implemented until the start of the 2105 inversion season" Most of us will be dead by the 2105 inversion season so I guess this is all pointless. That is how the Deserted News wrote the article. I told you that they were better than the Salt Lake Buffoon, but not by much.
This link should help stir the pot even more. This happened yesterday. It looks like the "Yellow Burn" days are now "Red Burn" days. So they will have "Green Burn" days, O.K. to burn and "Red Burn" days, no burn days. The red, yellow, and green burn day system has been going on now for over 15 years. It is nothing new.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=33031977
"exceptions for power outages and homes above 7,000 feet in elevation." Homes above 7,000 is code for the ski resorts. The tourists deserve to have a fire in their condos at Snowbird, Alta, and Solitude. Brighton is for Locals and Park City is not in one of the effected counties.
On the serious side Idahonative, you haven't told me yet what you want me to do about it, or what you are going to do about it.
I drove from Dubois, Idaho to my home in central Utah today. By the time I got to Salt lake I could not see the mountains on either side of the valley. It was a "Red" burn day. We haven't had a storm since before New Years and the stuff is thick. I got in my personal vehicle in Salt Lake and made a mad dash for home. I tried to hold my breath until I made it to the south end of Utah county.
I do not know how many people live in Treasure Valley, but it looks like there are just under 400,000 in Ada county (Boise). Salt Lake county has over 1,000,000 people and the total population of the 5 counties that would be effected is well over 2,000,000. If Ada county were to have an increase of say 500,000 people to its current population you would have more to be outraged about than just being able to burn wood to heat your home. I'm not trying to stir things up here, it's just that some things are what they are and the Wasatch Front in Utah has a serious problem with their air quality.
Please don't project your circumstances onto all of us. The amount of money some of us spend on saws, guns, or other "fun" stuff (such as the luxury of snow skiing) in 10 years wouldn't pay for a single season of alternative fuel.
Yes, skiing is a luxury, but I can still afford to heat my house on electric, only. It might behoove some members to either insulate those drafty houses they complain about instead of buying expensive wood furnaces. New windows work well too. Or downsize. Size your house to what you can afford to heat. We've become a pretty spoiled population. I look at the houses that I lived in as a kid and they are tiny compared to today's "requirements".
If I couldn't afford to heat this house on electric, I'd be looking for another house. Live in what you can afford. It is foolish to think that with our density of population increasing, that wood heat will continue to be unrestricted.
Oh yes, of course you are right.
I think I'll move. I heard Washington state is nice... but for a few nutcases who live there.If you really believe that "if it comes down to it" there will be less people burning wood you are fooling yourself. More financial catastrophe/Armageddon/zombie apocalypse and people will burn no matter what color day it is dictated by some agency.
I KNOW RIGHT!!! i can't stand ppl who use facts and accurate scientific data to prove their fraud. pssshh. they make me sick.How many more horrific winters are we going to go through before these global warming idiots give up on this fraud?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lPgZfhnCAdI @ 2:45 it gets entertaining.
Oh yes, of course you are right.
If you really believe that "if it comes down to it" there will be less people burning wood you are fooling yourself. More financial catastrophe/Armageddon/zombie apocalypse and people will burn no matter what color day it is dictated by some agency.
So, a person who believes in living in what she can afford is a nutcase, while somebody who writes about zombie apocalypse as an excuse to continue living beyond their means is the sane one? Tell me more....
YA!! thats right they are totally unlike the intelligent, hard working uncorrupt politicians we have everywhere else!!!! we have a saying here in illinois--- "welcome to illinois where our former governors make our license plates." lol (4 of our last 8 Governors ended up in prison)
nathon918
Addicted to ArboristSite
how is heating with wood "living beyond their means"?
Seriously? Because I use a generic zombie apocalypse term instead of listing all of the possible scenarios where it may not be possible to rely on other sources of fuel you think I (or anyone) believes in zombies?
I live within my means - but we may have different priorities. I don't have a pension I can sit back and wait for the check to come in and I'm planning to provide my own retirement. Could I take some of that money and put it towards more expensive heating alternative? Yes, but I choose not to. The point is, many could not "go without a chainsaw or gun" or other luxuries to pay for heat as you suggest.
Someone who continually discourages others to live in their area might have issues.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
We cannot all heat with wood. There isn't enough.
On the other hand I find your "calculation" to be equally foolish - one needs to understand what is happening with regard to fossil fuels, and electric energy is mostly from fossil fuels. Yes I know the PNW has lots of hydropower, but then your region is not in control of that power and where it gets sent. Most electricity is derived from coal, most of which these days is little more than dirt with a bit of coal in it.
Also, the electric grid is ancient. We cannot afford to maintain it let alone consider the kinds of investments that originally built it. Under the guise of "utility deregulation" we allowed these once quasi-public assets to be stripped and the profits funneled to a small, well connected portion of the population. Now those organizations have much smaller staff for engineering and maintenance. So you make several assumptions which I find highly dubious: that the heat will always be available by turning up the thermostat, that you will be able to afford the energy even if the system works.
The last assumption I find questionable in your statement is the moving part. As large portions of the country become untenable due to energy limitations, climate change and social/political/economic stress, the inevitable result will be population migrations. In that environment moving will likely be an act of desperation, as no other region will want the refugees - you won't.
Wood heat is not something that all can do, or the result would be deforestation as was done in my region. This region was stripped bare several times over and all the woodland around here is multiple generations of re-growth later. However, there are not that many people willing to put in the labor and time to heat with wood, and by the time they need to they won't have the skills/tools/supplies needed.
pennsywoodburnr
supreme scrounger
Slowp, have you been paying attention to electricity rates in general? They've been steadily going up for years. Mind you, they may level off for a while, but I've never seen electric rates go down. It's downright silly to think this would not continue. Is everyone supposed to go live in a 10'x10' shed because they would be able to heat that on electric only? Everyone's money is being stretched to the absolute limit right now. You can blame that on the current president, congress, the senate, coal plants being shut down, off shore drilling being suppressed or whatever. It really doesn't matter. People aren't going to sell houses they've been established for the last 20 years in. They're going to find cheaper ways to heat it. I'm in a small house, I'd bet the floorplan is even smaller than yours. It was a vacation home my wife and I converted to full time use. For me to heat with electricity during the winter would put me so in debt I'd never be able to climb out of that hole. That's with the thermostat being set at 70-72*. With the winters we have out here in P.A. where we can hit 0* at night or even dip into the negatives, that's not an option a lot of folks have. Everyone I know who runs electric only, pays for heating oil, propane or what have you, is paying $$$ out of their nose to keep the place warm. As things get worse, more and more will turn to wood for heat. It doesn't matter what kind of fines are imposed for burning on "red" days or while the inversion is in place. When you're broke, you're broke. Heating my house would be more important. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.
bingo!!!Oh yes, of course you are right.
If you really believe that "if it comes down to it" there will be less people burning wood you are fooling yourself. More financial catastrophe/Armageddon/zombie apocalypse and people will burn no matter what color day it is dictated by some agency.
70 to 72 degrees? Wow. We didn't have a lot of money when I was growing up, and we lived in a tiny house that had oil heat, and it felt cold in the winter--we lived on the cold side of the mountains, where it was not unusual for temps to drop below zero and the snow stayed around. We had these strange clothes called, sweaters and long underwear to wear and our thermostat was not set that high. It would cost too much. We kids still spent most of the day outside and coming in when our feet were numb. When my house gets up to 70 it feels too warm if I'm doing things.
My goodness, have things changed! We are a country of wimps. By the way, my cushy pension was something I paid a lot of my wages into and worked for. It's called budgeting and saving for retirement. A concept that seems strange to some.
Looks like you might want to elect some folks who will inject more gubmint power and socialize your power companies. Our socialist power companies are excellent and yes, costs do go up each year, but not by much. That's a better answer than advising everybody to burn more firewood. I read that smaller power plants that are local will be the way to go. They require less grid and less infrastructure.
Actually, our county is in a bit of control. We people upped our own rates to build a dam. The dam is about 6 miles away and provides power to us. There's another, smaller hydro project for the next community to the east, and that one even keeps their power working if the lines going from the dam are damaged.
We don't have many options, yet, but there is still insulation, orienting a house for passive solar, and keeping the size affordable.
I came home last night looked at the woodstove, and flicked on the wall heater--to 65.
My goodness, have things changed! We are a country of wimps. By the way, my cushy pension was something I paid a lot of my wages into and worked for. It's called budgeting and saving for retirement. A concept that seems strange to some.
Looks like you might want to elect some folks who will inject more gubmint power and socialize your power companies. Our socialist power companies are excellent and yes, costs do go up each year, but not by much. That's a better answer than advising everybody to burn more firewood. I read that smaller power plants that are local will be the way to go. They require less grid and less infrastructure.
Actually, our county is in a bit of control. We people upped our own rates to build a dam. The dam is about 6 miles away and provides power to us. There's another, smaller hydro project for the next community to the east, and that one even keeps their power working if the lines going from the dam are damaged.
We don't have many options, yet, but there is still insulation, orienting a house for passive solar, and keeping the size affordable.
I came home last night looked at the woodstove, and flicked on the wall heater--to 65.
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