Valdetain Tresse

[lumberjack333]

I recently read that this is considered one of the most dangerous friction hitches.... Why is that exactly, because of possible rollout? I use a slightly modified version, with only two wraps at the top instead of 4, I find it runs nicer with my 8mm prussik eye-to-eye.

 

[Adkpk]

I never experienced any danger with one. Might take a bounce on the rope when you first set it but once it sets seems to work without a hitch. Where did you read this?

 

[mcb]

i think its the best friction rig ever.. recently changed mine from 4 top/3 bottom to 5 top/2 bottom and its significantly shorter, doesnt hit the trunk when im near the top anymore, but still works awesome. no issues yet.

 

[lumberjack333]

I actually read it in the Tree Climbers Companion, I think they refert to both the VT and XT when they state that. Thanks for confirming that it can't rollout, I've never had a problem with it holding or running, never sticks when it shouldn't and doesn't run when it shouldn't (something I can't say for the ol' blakes on occasion...)

TreeCo - I don't see anything different about changing the number of wraps on a friction hitch to the number of wraps you put on a porta-wrap, as long as its tested at ground level.... seems like a good way to set up the system that works best for the individual, just like adjusting a harness.

 

[canopyboy]

Funny, I was reading the TCC last night and noticed the same thing. Only things I can think of is it's harder to tie right for some people and might be a little too sensitive (you can bump the top and start a descent?) Also, maybe if your ran a long e2e it could get tangled up when unloaded and then not grab until redressed? I'd love to hear a good reason, because it's my favorite hitch.

As for the number of wraps, I've never heard of going to only 2 on the top. But if you gave it a good test low and slow and it's working for you then great.

 

[Treetom]

lumberjack333,

I've found that different cords act differently with the VT. I give such lines, Ultratech for example, an extra turn around the climbing line and make it into a Distel, which seems a more reliable alternative.

 

[outofmytree]

Advanced hitches like the VT are just that, advanced. In the hands of newbie climbers they can be tied incorrectly and fail to grab at a critical point thus they can be "dangerous". Properly tied a VT is a high performance friction hitch with many advantages over other knots.

 

[grizzly2]

:agree2:

I read that statement in TCC a long time ago, and I think it's in there for the simple fact of keeping the new guys from trying it before they're ready. While I still might go back to that book from time to time, it's the guys who are just learning 'the ropes' that predominantly read the book. I think it's just a bit of a scare tactic to keep them away from it, while at least telling them that the knot does exist, along with a proper method to tie it.

 

[outofmytree]

Amen to that Grizzly. My guys are shown the English prussik on an endless loop which, IMO, is the simplest and safest friction hitch around. After they master this knot the choice is their own. I believe in learning any skill in stages. Like having trainer wheels on your kids first bike. It isn't forever, just until you get the hang of it and then on to whatever floats your boat.

 

[canopyboy]

:agree2:

I read that statement in TCC a long time ago, and I think it's in there for the simple fact of keeping the new guys from trying it before they're ready. While I still might go back to that book from time to time, it's the guys who are just learning 'the ropes' that predominantly read the book. I think it's just a bit of a scare tactic to keep them away from it, while at least telling them that the knot does exist, along with a proper method to tie it.

Worked for me. I taught myself to climb largely from the TCC. That book essentially led me down the split tail with a Blake's path, and that's what I used for the first couple of years. But I always remembered the VT from the book, and eventually came back to try that "dangerous" knot that everyone swears by once I was comfortable and ready to tinker with my system. Maybe that Jepson guy knows what he's doing..... I can't imagine having tried to learn on the VT.

 

[md_tree_dood]

The problem lies in the fact that there are 20 ways to tie it and everyone ties it differently and it reacts completely different based on the type of rope and the type of e2e. All those factors combined make it "dangerous."

I use a 3 wrap 2 braid VT with tenex on a lava line and it works great for me, but it slides alot and I have to manage it throughout the climb, I prefer this setup because it won't tighten and i like the play in my hitch, new climbers would be freaked out by this.

 

[lumberjack333]

Any climber should be freaked by it! Your hitch/rope combination isn't working right!

I have zero slippage, zero lock up and zero having to fool around with my hitch.

I'm using a 4 wrap 2 braid Vt and NE Hi Vee Safety blue and 3/8 yacht braid from sailnet.

Agreed. Even running it with 2 wrap 3 braid I have no slippage and it doesn't lock up "Set it, and forget it." (Well not literally, attention should always be paid to all aspects of the climbing system.)

 

[md_tree_dood]

I think perhaps you're assuming I have more slide then it really does, most likely because of the way I stated it. It runs alot faster and tends easier with the way I have it setup and occasionally through the climb I have to tend it due to the setup. 4 wraps 2 braids/3 wraps, 3 braids-don't run fast enough and are to hard to tend.