Vermeer 252 brake disengagement

[TheAMMIXman]

Anyone know if there is a way to disengage the brake in the clutch while the machine is off?

I flip and switch my green teeth a few times a day and have always hated how the brake sounds when I rotate the wheel.

Thanks
Bruce

 

[dstyduhar]

Interesting question. I wonder if it matter what clutch you have? I think the stock clutch is made by Ogura but all I have seen are the aftermarket ones. As I understand it, it's either energized or the brake (mechanical is engaged). Sounds like you want something like an overrunning clutch.

thanks,

Drew

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Interesting question. I wonder if it matter what clutch you have? I think the stock clutch is made by Ogura but all I have seen are the aftermarket ones. As I understand it, it's either energized or the brake (mechanical is engaged). Sounds like you want something like an overrunning clutch.

thanks,

Drew

It is factory. I beleive it is an ogura, the three pointed triangle style not the earlier circular style.

My understanding was what’s yours was. I thought it not possible but figured maybe I should ask.

Aftermarket clutches??? How do I get one? Where? And how much?

Never heard of much of anything aftermarket for these machines except belts filters hoses and Kohler stuff for the motor.

Thanks for the reply

 

[dstyduhar]

Sorry, I think I misspoke. I have seen pictures of the earlier round clutch and thought that was standard for these 252's. Didn't realize the triangular one was stock or a stock replacement.

Correct me if Im wrong but the round clutch had a tab on it and was fixed to a corresponding piece of metal on the housing to help keep it stabilized.. Found this pic online showing it.

The triangular clutch I have does not have this tab. Maybe something is wrong with my clutch it sort of swings a little while the engine is running. And when I lock it up it will smack the top of the metal housing that surrounds it. Not sure if this is normal.


thanks,

Drew

 

[TheAMMIXman]

@dstyduhar I beleive our triangular clutch is factory. A man I spoke to a few times that had 6 of these machines at one point said the earlier ones are round and newer ones are triangular. When I told him I had a “newer” machine with a triangular clutch, he said good, you’ll prob never need to replace it. Apparently the triangular ones were made better than the previous generation. At least that’s what I was told.

More importantly for now, you sir I beleive are missing a spring. I’m pretty sure the traingle clutches all have one.

The clutch should not really smack the housing, on disengagement I think. I broke mine once after the most massive jammup I probably ever had, and I think the last two times I either started or shut off the wheel that day whithout the spring it smacked pretty good. Hated that noise. Shipping cost me more than the damn spring so I ordered 3.

The spring is 4.5” long if you need one quickly, which I did not know when I broke and lost the old one, made matching one up all but impossible. Maybe you’ll have better luck. I’ve included a picture of mine with a tape and a new spare for the part number.

If you find a suitable replacement let me know! I was chasing drum brake springs I just never found the right one and the Vermeer one came next day.

Thanks for corresponding with me on 252s
Bruce

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Spring is exactly 4.5” tip to tip.

Best angle I could get with a clear picture, front facing camera only till I take my phone apart again.

Keep Grinding!
Bruce

 

[dstyduhar]

Dude! Great info and pics. I'll check my clutch this evening. My 252 is all torn apart so I would prob go for the slow/free shipping to the local Vermeer dealer haha. Good idea on getting some extras.

Regarding these electromagnetic clutches, I don't think I have seen one (riding mowers and stuff included) where it's not fixed to some housing or a base flange or SOMETHING. I understand the brake engages when not in use but it's not 100% lock. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how they expected the clutch to not move at all. If the clutch can move then the wiring is moving/rotating which is not a good design.

thanks again,

Drew

 

[dstyduhar]

hey buddy, just FYI that I talked to a sales guy at Vermeer and he told me the old round clutch did not have a brake in it. He also said the triangular clutch is about 2x the price of a round clutch....~300 vs 600. Although he acknowledged the triangular clutch is stronger, he also said that unless you abuse the machine the round one is fine. He said they sell both! If there was a design issue, they would have superceded the clutch part # I would think....hmmm.

Drew

 

[dstyduhar]

Hey Bruce,

I took some closer pics of the clutch on my 252. The Vermeer # is very tough to make out so not sure.....180**7180. I emailed Ogura with questions about the clutch (GT4-VEO2) I have. I read that the Kohler Command 27's came in different configuration where the output shaft were different sizes. I need to remove the clutch to do some welding on the Sheetmetal in that area and will take a look at the shaft diameter and snap a pic. It looks like this clutch has been on here a while and hasn't failed yet. Hell, it might have been the stock clutch for some oddball year.

Have you ever been on Oguras site? You might find that they sell the same clutch as you currently have but without a brake on it. Also, I see multiple aftermarket companies that manufacture knockoff Oguras. Cool stuff like billet pulleys and high torque versions and so on.

I just can't justify spending 300 bucks on a clutch. I see a lot of these generic Oguras in the $100-150 price range.

I'll keep ya posted.

Drew

 

[dstyduhar]

Ok wow, talking to Ogura has been awful. Really cryptic answers and a bunch of runaround.....I think there must be some confidentiality agreement or something. There were three different clutches on these 252's that I can find.

The first clutch is what people simply refer to as the "round" clutch. Seems like the early models got this unit. It does not have a brake and is rated @ 300ft/lbs. My dealer said they go for about $300 so they still sell it. It has a metal tab to prevent the clutch from spinning instead of a spring.

- The Ogura part # is 51922500.
- Xtreme clutches also sell this under #X0755 but they are currently out of stock. Has billet pulley, better bearings, etc.
- This also crosses over to a MA-GT-JD22 for John Deere Front mowers. JD number is AM118770
- I found a few threads where guys say this same clutch is on their Rayco Super JR.

 

[dstyduhar]

The second clutch is what I have which seems to be an oddball. Ogura wouldn't give up much info but they said its still in production and Vermeer should sell it. My dealer doesn't sell this clutch and Ogura doesn't even list this on their site. They would not tell me if it's been superseded.

- Ogura Model GT4-VE02
- Ogura part # 52767400

 

[TheAMMIXman]

The second clutch is what I have which seems to be an oddball. Ogura wouldn't give up much info but they said its still in production and Vermeer should sell it. My dealer doesn't sell this clutch and Ogura doesn't even list this on their site. They would not tell me if it's been superseded.

- Ogura Model GT4-VE02
- Ogura part # 52767400

View attachment 839857View attachment 839856

Yeah I’ve heard they won’t sell direct for the clutches we want. Supposedly there is some who rebuild them, but whose got time for that when there is stumps to grind unless one already has a spare.

Wonder if I have second or third gen clutch. I’ll uave to get the number off mine next time the cover is off. It’s totally legible. I’ve taken a picture of it before. Odd. Your spring hole is mounted down facing and mine is to the left.

 

[dstyduhar]

Hey Bruce - A few questions for you sir.

Is the clutch you bought for your grinder new to you? If so would you mind telling us what you paid for it and the part number?

Does it look like the one I have on my machine?

thanks,

Drew

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Hey Drew

I had never bought one for my grinder. I just figured if I ever needed too I’d get it from Vermeer, yes for $600, but would likely be here the next day. I had previously looked into the potential replacement aftermarket or otherwise and had turned up not much.
Here’s a pic of my clutch, looks much like yours. Just mounted differently, spring hole to the left as I had mentioned.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Looks like I must have the third gen. It is different. Hopefully I don’t need one. Only 800 hours on my machine. Should be ok for a while I’d hope. Others have said they hold up well.

My machine is a 2012 for reference.

 

[dstyduhar]

I know Im beating a dead horse here but I want to get to the bottom of the clutch situation. Vermeer says they only have two clutch options for these 252s and one of these is the round clutch. The clutch we have are not the same. Not just how they are mounted but the clutch housing on yours protrudes out where the spring hooks to it. The clutch I have is symmetrical. I'm not saying my clutch is good or anything I can just see they are different. I'm going to run down to Vermeer tomorrow and put my eyes on their $300 and $600 clutch.

I was digging DEEEEEEP in Oguras tech info and put together this picture comparing my clutch (right) to the only models they offer for a 1-7/16" shaft and twin belt pulley with similar design. What I'm calling "F" looks very much like what you have. See the kickout where the spring attaches? Mine is obviously different in that area. According to Ogura they do NOT sell the 527825 to Vermeer but I'm not sure I trust them.

I know you're a busy guy but when you have a moment I would really like to see what #'s are on your clutch.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

I should be able to let you know later. I’m going in now to try some different brand belts. The gates seems great on the cutter wheel to jackshaft but I’ve lost a few of the gates single v belts off the jack shaft to motor, and have another one loosing tension now and it shouldn’t be.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

 

[dstyduhar]

Thanks so much for the pictures. GT5-VE10 is called out as being for a 1-1/8" input shaft diameter. My clutch is is spec'd for a 1-7/16" shaft but I think I should remove and actually confirm this on my machine. If there is a difference in Kohler Command 27 shaft sizes then this explains a lot. My grinder is a 2005 and yours is a 2012 but the engines "look" the same appearance wise.

BTW, I know you said you looked before but check out X0756 clutches on google. If you engine does indeed have 1-1/8 input shaft then you can get a replacement clutch all day long for 250 bucks. My clutch supposedly crosses over to aftermarket X0755 which is out of stock....knowing my luck it will be out of stock forever haha.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Mine does indeed have a 1 1/8 diameter shaft. 3 7/8 long with a 1” spacer on it. I actually re mic ed it today even though I wrote all that on the covers. I shoulda checked the bolt size and threads too when it was off. I was looking at a new Vanguard35 on fleebay for HAs that looked like it would go right on, 4” X 1 1/8” shaft. $2k.

My machine isn’t quite back together yet, can’t find my dial indicator. Wanna double check the runout on the jachaft pulley. I’m tired. The wife wants me to come to bed. I’ll get up at 5 and find it check it and tension the belts. Be rockin in no time.

I might just order one of those clutches to put on the shelf. I like spare parts. Never know. I’ll look into it. Thank you for that info.