Wedge tip for bore cutting backleaners

[hammerlogging]

answer: cantilever

 

[Burvol]

Burv 10 ####in 4

If I had to double bore every tree I cut I wouldn't get #### done. Usually we are trying to send our trees sidehill, atleast at a 45. If the stem is too big to bor through with a 32" bar, that means you're going to be boring the underside over your head, again. And that sucks. And its tiring, and slow. Cause its steep. If you're running a 24" or a 20", you'll be facing and boring from both sides on EVERY tree. Aint no way to get nothing done.

Longer bars are faster and safer. Even on a 12" spruce with the GOL limbing stuff.

Ever buck off the top of a hardwood where you have a 35" stem sidehill with the butt 12' in the air on broken ground? KNow what happens when you get that topped? Glad I have a few extra inches, sometimes I wish I had a few extra feet.

Use the most appropriate (safety, and saving wood) and fastest technique available. Different strategies for different occasions. That means not open facing and bore cutting every tree.

I agree, know how and when to use it, and keep it handy for that. We call it "A Strap" or "Strapping a Tree" out here, most common on Pine that are hard leaning.

 

[Burvol]

/. DEayto , you need one of them sun balls , but I can,t figure out how to give one and they won,t let me rep ya again right now .. I must go find someother worthy individual ,.....:notrolls2::agree2::biggrinbounce2: .. We better be vewwy vewwy quiet tho ....
. This is Arborists site .......... Well all get tramped . walkin down the road kickin rocks MAD and talkin to our selves !!!!!

I tried to sun ball you (as you so cleverly put it) LOL for the rock kicking bit...I'm out, too damn funny

 

[hammerlogging]

hey burv, I haven't found a good time for wheeling up yet, or when I did, it was too scary for some other reason.

But, wheeling down, here and there. Sometimes I'm glad because instead of the cut collapsing everything stays in place. Other times I feel like I've created a incredible amount of potential energy and think good god this better stay put. All in good fun.

With all our different species, the wood quality effects these practices. Damn basswood is like a sponge, it'll close on your bar just when you're putting in your first face cut, its like an expanding sponge or something, not sure whats going on there. As usual, poplar is the best place to practice.

 

[ropensaddle]

You guys may hardly ever bore cut out west, because the trees are different. I mean I would love to have a swath of straight conifers to cut. Back here we get alot of strange trees-double/triple stems, offset crowns etc. I'm sayin' it is good to know many techniques for many applications.

How far west we talking? I have cut thousands upon thousands of leaning trees and never used a bore cut from Michigan to Texas T Iowa and in between. The only extreme chair I have had happen was from Two inch of ice load but that is a bird of a different feather of which I have extensive real time experiance as well. Of course you would flip out to know the ice loaded ones were almost always cut no notch lol.

 

[bitzer]

With all our different species, the wood quality effects these practices. Damn basswood is like a sponge, it'll close on your bar just when you're putting in your first face cut, its like an expanding sponge or something, not sure whats going on there. As usual, poplar is the best place to practice.

Frickin Basswood! I know what you mean. I had one creakin' when gunning the face last week as it tried to sit down on the bar. You can swing them pretty decent though.

Long bars all day! Full comp on em too!

I think you have to have a lot of tricks in the bag for different species of hardwoods and knowing when to use them. Bore cutting is a necessity in hardoods with crown weights and multiple leans, but not for every damn tree.

I don't know if you have done this hammer, but its someting I've been thinking about to swing a tree. The lean would be favorable but at about a 10 o'clock postion and you want it to go to about 2 o clock. Also would have to use a humboldt face. Without boring, the tree would go too fast or chair anyway. The Kid put part of the idea in my head and the rest I've been toying with. Bore the back behind the hinge and instead of going all the way to the back leaving a backstrap, pull out and start cutting from the back and leave a post more towards the center. Then line up in a way to cut the post and also have access to the side of the hinge to cut in order to swing the tree when the face starts to close. I may be an idiot and this could be standard practice with you guys, but I'm thinking about trying it. One thing I could see going on is the tree may go too quickly to cut the hinge enough or it may try to take the saw with it, maybe.

 

[tramp bushler]

Up here the CLP teaches the bore cut as the primary way to cut. Cut the face, if its a large tree bore the front from the middle, bore in from the side stick a wedge in, undercut beneath the wedge and drop the tree. Leaving the last bit of hold wood allows for a stand so the tree can't rock back on you and when your only dealing with 10-15" hardwoods of high value its the best way to go. No fiber pull, no excess that has to be trimmed off the but because the face is so shallow, and unbelievable control of direction so the tree doesn't get damaged on its way down. http://www.umaine.edu/universityforests/Collegiate_Game_of_Logging.htm

.
. How High value is a tree that is 15" on the stump ....I,ve fell trees that had $ 15,000.00 .worth of logs in them in the water along side the ship ... From some of Cody's pics he may have double that dollar figure The Doug fir in Burvols avatar had at least several thousand dollars worth of wood in it .... I am positive that Gologit , Randy Mac Jacob J Coastal Faller , Oregon Faller , ect.ect.ect.ect. has me beat by double the dollar figure !!!!!! Just how high a dollar figure are we talking about with a hardwood tree 15" diameter on the stump ............. I would scoop those little poles off the stump . have them go where I wanted , never pull any wood , and never use a wedge .........
.
. Any one who says he is going to drop tree just said Hey everyone , watch me drop and break this tree ..........If you had to go to college to learn how to put a tree on the ground it could be observed there is very little grey matter activity between the ears .........
.
. People on here need to learn that you don,t drop a tree ... and if they keep saying they do they need to be put on DONT TALK FOR A WHILE ......
..
.University of Maine , Why not just move back to England ,,,,, give me a break , or get a clue ....

 

[tramp bushler]

You guys may hardly ever bore cut out west, because the trees are different. I mean I would love to have a swath of straight conifers to cut. Back here we get alot of strange trees-double/triple stems, offset crowns etc. I'm sayin' it is good to know many techniques for many applications.

.

.

.Cody, you got any spooky spring board pics ....... Fred .. check out Coastal Fallers info . there is a link he posted of the company he either cuts for or owns ... . He , or one of the guys on his strip is about 3 boards up a clump of red cedars that look like they are running 5-7ft on the stump .........
. Cutting 2nd and 3rd growth is quite different from falling old growth ...Still a pretty easy way to get killt . But trust me we have way more ----ed up falling situations than what you do in Penn.. Now , I,m not saying you don,t have very challenging situations .....and that you have to keep your thinking cap on tight ......... But . When the ground gets steep , and the wood gets fat . You really need to have everything happening right ..........
. If I went to WV and was cutting , if need be I would pack Hammers gas for a couple days to learn how to deal with the timber he is falling ........And I,ve already put a few/ several ship loads of timber on the ground ...

 

[Greystoke]

I thought only we lonely foresters talked to ourselves?

Here is a tree that was bored into by helicopter fallers. You may want to discuss the technique.

If you had wished to use ropes and winches, well, it would be a bit of a pack in. Not horribly steep, unless one is from the east of Montana, but a bit of a ways up the hill.

I always did that...nice way to keep your gear off the ground. Only difference was, I learned from an old faller, was to bore just into the bark, maybe a little into the sapwood, in case a windstorm came, your saw could get free!

 

[Greystoke]

Cody, you got any spooky spring board pics .......

Unfortunately, the only ones I have are the couple that I have posted in other threads.

I wish I had a pic of the 50 bushel redwood that myself and another guy had to build scaffolding around...This tree was in an owl circle buffer where you can only cut a percentage of the trees, but the deadline for falling it had passed so we had to leave it until the season opened. The hippies showed up when we were working this nice residual job...anyhow, the bull buck sent us to the bottom of the unit to said tree, and wanted us to girdle it (so as to kill it without falling it, and take away their reason for climbing it and building a hippy nest). It took us all day to build scaffolding around that thing and girdle it. It was on a steep pitch and had a hard lean, so it made the scaffolding interesting. Unfortunately I was laid up with a broken leg when they went back in the next season and fell it. I guess they used 10 silvey tree saver rams on it to jack it over...would have been very pic worthy.

 

[tramp bushler]

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!! WOW !!!!!!!!!!! That would be impressive !!!

 

[bitzer]

Wow, now that is some Effin timber! 10 fricken jacks! Jesus. How do you girdle a tree? I've never heard of that before.

 

[hammerlogging]

The lean would be favorable but at about a 10 o'clock postion and you want it to go to about 2 o clock.

Whether or not you could get it cut in time before breaking butt log (chair like)depends on if say 8'of lean at 10 o'clock, or 20' at 10 o'clock. What you're describing sounds like a dutchman really. If it doesn't have too much lean at 10'oclock it'd probably hit 2 oclock anyhow without anything special, maybe have to aim it at 3 since the hinge will break at some point.

056 and his infamous side band swarp notch diagram..... its like a dutchman only it has this huge (obnoxious, dangerous) kerf face on the hoizontal of the dutchman. I've seen some guys swing some stuff really well but I've also seen the whole trunk (whole tree) twist on that little piece thats left, if it broke off early..... lets just say you have really changed the lean of the tree at this point and you'd have no idea where to escape to. I'm talking like more than 5" of kerf face. Scary. Say its leaning heavy to 4 oclock and you want it at 12. at about 1 oclock the whole trunk is twisting on the stump- it doesn't just swing the tree, it twists it This means the crown weight can move over the faller

I advocate for a conventional dutchman and have to shake my head when the ol side band comes out. Then I laugh.

Tramp.... it'd be a lot more fun to share gas, share a saw, and alternate tanks of fuel.

 

[Greystoke]

How do you girdle a tree? I've never heard of that before.

We took about a 6"wide section of bark and cambium all the way around...dang redwoods are so hearty though...I doubt we phased it...oh well...heck of a memory!

 

[056kid]

Whether or not you could get it cut in time before breaking butt log (chair like)depends on if say 8'of lean at 10 o'clock, or 20' at 10 o'clock. What you're describing sounds like a dutchman really. If it doesn't have too much lean at 10'oclock it'd probably hit 2 oclock anyhow without anything special, maybe have to aim it at 3 since the hinge will break at some point.

056 and his infamous side band swarp notch diagram..... its like a dutchman only it has this huge (obnoxious, dangerous) kerf face on the hoizontal of the dutchman. I've seen some guys swing some stuff really well but I've also seen the whole trunk (whole tree) twist on that little piece thats left, if it broke off early..... lets just say you have really changed the lean of the tree at this point and you'd have no idea where to escape to. I'm talking like more than 5" of kerf face. Scary. Say its leaning heavy to 4 oclock and you want it at 12. at about 1 oclock the whole trunk is twisting on the stump- it doesn't just swing the tree, it twists it This means the crown weight can move over the faller

I advocate for a conventional dutchman and have to shake my head when the ol side band comes out. Then I laugh.

Tramp.... it'd be a lot more fun to share gas, share a saw, and alternate tanks of fuel.

He is talking about somthing different than the swarp. Its a dutchman with a post in the back cut about 1 1/2 to 2 hours past the 3 o click holding wood. good for head/side leaners on steeps... cut a dutchman, loose the compression wood, go around back & work towards pull wood, bring the saw out of the kirf, leave some wood, bore in & make the hinge then saw the post. Thats easier for me than boring both sides then sawing both sides then cutting the back strap. .

 

[fredmc]

.

.

.Cody, you got any spooky spring board pics ....... Fred .. check out Coastal Fallers info . there is a link he posted of the company he either cuts for or owns ... . He , or one of the guys on his strip is about 3 boards up a clump of red cedars that look like they are running 5-7ft on the stump .........
. Cutting 2nd and 3rd growth is quite different from falling old growth ...Still a pretty easy way to get killt . But trust me we have way more ----ed up falling situations than what you do in Penn.. Now , I,m not saying you don,t have very challenging situations .....and that you have to keep your thinking cap on tight ......... But . When the ground gets steep , and the wood gets fat . You really need to have everything happening right ..........
. If I went to WV and was cutting , if need be I would pack Hammers gas for a couple days to learn how to deal with the timber he is falling ........And I,ve already put a few/ several ship loads of timber on the ground ...

I'm not trying to cause a pissing match...hell I'm a newbie at this. All I'm sayin is "if it doesn't apply let it fly". Whatever gets them on the ground safely and intact.

 

[slowp]

I always did that...nice way to keep your gear off the ground. Only difference was, I learned from an old faller, was to bore just into the bark, maybe a little into the sapwood, in case a windstorm came, your saw could get free!

Is that a Montana trick? The fallers were all from Montana and Idaho.

 

[Greystoke]

Is that a Montana trick? The fallers were all from Montana and Idaho.

Could be...the guy I learned it from was my father-in-law from Idaho.

 

[bitzer]

He is talking about somthing different than the swarp. Its a dutchman with a post in the back cut about 1 1/2 to 2 hours past the 3 o click holding wood. good for head/side leaners on steeps... cut a dutchman, loose the compression wood, go around back & work towards pull wood, bring the saw out of the kirf, leave some wood, bore in & make the hinge then saw the post. Thats easier for me than boring both sides then sawing both sides then cutting the back strap. .

Thats similar to what I was talking about. To be fair I have a tree in particular that I am thinking about with this. Its not regular forrest timber. Its a side job for some quick cash. A 32" dbh 70' crack willow thats hanging over a lake. The main stem is nearly straight for the first 4' then leans at about a 30 degree + angle to the ground and looking from the back about 10 to 15 degrees left. The crown is to the left looking from the back cut. The base of the stump is 4' from the lake and I need to put the butt on the ice so I don't eff up their rip rap wall. The ground is sloped so if I were to put my face in chest high my back cut would be knee high. Chest high is nearly over the ice already, but not quite. I'm sure I could put it there with a con-dutch and a snipe to kick it out there for sure.

The tree is flanked by two larger willows that I don't want to hit. The right side is nearly clear, the left side has one large limb that will hit the flanking tree if I don't swing it a little to the right. There is so much weight out in front with this thing it is going to go quick. Hopefully I can put the butt down first and the crown last so there is not one solid impact. I don't plan to practice on other peoples property, but just seeing what you guys thought. Them city folk pay good money to have their trees taken down. I'll make 2.5 days wages in about 5 hours. I have cut a lot of garbage like this with crazy ass leans and had some succes with stepping dutchmans. I will probably just play it safe.

I made a ridiculous sketch of what I'm talking about anyway. I thought about boring the face a little so there is less hinge to hit, but it would probably sit down on my tip during my back cut if I bored through the face first. Here it is anyway. This will get the butt spinning for sure if it worked. I have done similar to get a stem to roll off of a nearby tree that it would normally get hung up in, but that was on a tree with no lean, no bore, and a humboldt.

Edit: looking at that picture now the face should be more to the right to go along with 10 to 2. Most situations 10 to 2 would not be too difficult. This one is out there though. I'll try and get some pics of it when I am out there this week or next.

 

[tramp bushler]

Ya Hammer ; that would be fun ...90 % of the cutting up here is single jacking . With the right guy it is fun to double up .. Do you grind a 45degree angle on the back of your cutters ?? the makes for a smoother bore ...
. Fred , No arguement here .........its cool !!! Do you use a full wrap handle bar on your 7900 Dolmar ...????