What happened to Husqvarna?!!!
- Thread starter MaddBomber
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
old pardner
ArboristSite Member
Good advice
I don't get why though, the 372 OE , 440,460,461,462 just to name a few all had 6202 bearings and they never had any bearing issues. So why does Husqvarna now need to use 6203 bearings to make their 70cc saws reliable?
Like usual, they are ahead of the curve. While short stroke 52mm 272's and then the 50mm vs. 52mm pistons on 372's were fine on those steel caged 6202's. The heavier pistons and other characteristics on the eco/x-torq/strato type saws push the limits on the nylon caged 6202's obviously. I've seen the heavier 51.4 xpw 372 version with wasted cases even before the 372xt's. I've had a rash of wasted cases both in 461's with their 7 ball nylon caged bearings right along with the early pre 2017 372xt's on their nylon caged 6202's, as they get to the end of their service life. While early in the service life most new designs saws will have some "teething" issues, I worry about the high performance 70cc "eco" saws on 6202's as I've seen a lot of case bearing pockets opened up on both major brands 70-75cc class saws come to my shop, can post pics if you need to see what that looks like. NOT that they haven't earned their keep and performed well for a reasonable service life, just when they stop...they are done. Planned obsolescence? Can't build on those cases anymore. Husqvarna focused on "balance" with current 372 and got them statistically pretty good and with the "next" generation 572 focused on reliability vs/ weight. A good decision from my perspective. SO....do u actually own and or have experienced any of the new Husqvarna's? I see a strong opinion. Personal experience with your saws?
Does any chainsaw maker use a steel sleeve for the main bearings? The end of the sweedish Husqvarna motorcycle had a sleeve on the crank bearings for the magnesium cases (not auto and 4 stroke that were aluminum). The transmission pockets went bad but not the crank ones.
Have to agree, I think the larger bearings were a smart move on their part. But the 572 is a lot heavier in the hand then a 462 stihl. And I'd even have to give the speed of cut to the 462 in smaller woods. Time will tell of husqy made the right decision in bulking up the saw a bit to make it more reliable.
The lack of dealer issue is a non issue around here. you can't spit without hitting a husqy or stihl dealer. Echo not so much, but still prevalent. More so is a quality of a dealer issue from what I see. I have no issues getting parts for my husqy saw off the internet at the same or lower cost then the dealer. So I have no issues with that either. Rather fix my own stuff then have to deal with a poor dealer
I've been lucky bought my 500i from the same dealer I bought my 10mm o44 all those years ago. Been nice having a well stocked pro level shop for all those years. Only other shop I use is Madsens I'm thinking they are a one off shop tho.
We have both the 462 and 572 at work, we are not seeing much difference between them in terms of durability . Its also not a good look when you type ''572xp'' into Google images and on the 6th row of images you see this. I also know of two other 572 bearing failures from other people in my industry so it does happen, while the failure rate may be low its still not lower than other strato 70cc saws like the 441 and 462. Beefier bottom end argument is moot when the piston weighs almost as much as 395
Derrick Sawyer
ArboristSite Guru
Sounds like a great dealer, i have one as well in PA, they sell used complete saws and even used parts since i rebuild a few of those 044 10mm, awesome saws...i recently got the 400cm since the "specs" are similar to the 044. Is the 500i what its billed up to be? In a zombie apocalypes situation, would you rather have the 044 10mm or the 500i?
Derrick Sawyer
ArboristSite Guru
I do also run the 572xp and its a nice saw, for limbing i prefer the 550xp Mk1 versus Mk2 since its lighter. No problems starting the newer Husqvarna, no other problems either, just a bit heavier but if you're mostly buckin up logs doesn't matter much
But you have to go online to find those or have second hand reports vs. you seeing them in your real experience is the point. And to this point your REAL experience is both saws are working and they are and I quote "We have both the 462 and 572 at work, we are not seeing much difference between them in terms of durability". So why not leave it there and add to the ACCURATE reporting and data set online? My experience is on the repair side. I never echo online information as it always is over blown. Think about it. 15 bearing failures out of 50,000 saw and every one in the saw community echo's that as if it's theirs. You don't have ANY actual first hand information as to what really happened, you have to "believe" and there are folks with less that accurate reporting for a variety of reasons. Was it a modded saw with artificially introduced issues? I had one here that was exactly that. Were they running the chain too tight? Dirty saw with blocked cooling fins? Was is an actual bearing failure which statistically will happen. You don't know and have no first hand knowledge on those online instance's. Next thing after the picture is copied and reposted 1500 times as if it WAS first hand knowledge, the perception there is a systemic issue. And that statistically is false. Wish folks would stick to reporting their real experience than pushing someone else's as if it was their own.We have both the 462 and 572 at work, we are not seeing much difference between them in terms of durability . Its also not a good look when you type ''572xp'' into Google images and on the 6th row of images you see this. I also know of two other 572 bearing failures from other people in my industry so it does happen, while the failure rate may be low its still not lower than other strato 70cc saws like the 441 and 462. Beefier bottom end argument is moot when the piston weighs almost as much as 395Just my 2 cents.
View attachment 906179
You cast your perception as if you see bearing failures when in fact your REAL experience is the 462 and 572 are about the same in reliability. And that should be your contribution vs. echoing someone else's. THAT would actually be a true addition to the data set online vs. just blowing air into bs.
That is my 2 cents and how I try to operate. Accuracy with MY experience.
The 2 bearing failures i am referring to are from a friend who works at another company, first time they have been mentioned online, both stock saws. So my point based on my own experience of the 572 and 462 having the same durability, what is the point of having 6203 bearings on a 70cc saw other than to add weight? I know the answer is because of the unnecessarily long stroke combined with a heavy piston. After using both saws coming up 3 years now Stihl has proved in my mind that it's possible to make a reliable 70cc strato saw with nylon caged 6202 bearings.
Derrick Sawyer
ArboristSite Guru
Well see how my new 400cm does with light Mg piston, short stroke, love it so far
You actually have excellent first hand data to add, and u have not personally experienced failures at this point. The ones you "know" about are second hand again just hear say, even if they are your "friends". And we both have opinions, I will post mine as I have my hands on different saws. You went to the Stihl narrative as that is your preferred saw which is all good and part of your experience. I can post a video on my experience if you want. I have a shop with a pile of cases. 461's and early 372's. You stated your opinion. Mine is a little different. Both manufactures have saws with nylon caged bearings that last a normal service life. After tweaking the 372 XT, even those last a normal period of time. I have seen and taken apart several 461's and 372's after a "normal" life that quit because the nylon crumbled and the bearing failed, I see them as successful saws as they earned their keep for the owners. As I see the "hands on" events, I often report with a video; but ONLY on what I have right in front of me. Here is one such event, actually one of a few with these saws. U have anything hands on you can report? And the answer is "yes" , you have both 462 and 572 that are working and to this point have not failed. THAT is first hand and excellent data. As mine is. The NEXT level is "opinion" and interpretations of other folks events, second hand data. That is where things get muddy. I too have a failed 572 case but I know how that happened and it wasn't stock therefor really not of value.
Derrick Sawyer
ArboristSite Guru
Just curious why the cases are done when the nylon caged bearings let go? I've rebuilt quite a few 044 046s due to bearings and only had one issue with one half case crack but was able to get it pretty cheap and not sure how long it was run with bad bearings to cause that. After the initial new product launch and teething issues, how do you control for factors like operator technique, gas/oil mix, climate, and how many saws of each type are in field in the specific location? Since the edge husqvarna had with better A/V due to springs and better air filtration due to air injection is now also used by Stihl in many models, will be interesting to see how they innovate further
Not an "automatic" thing, but when the saw has run too long with the bad bearing, IF it can run too long; often the bearing pockets get beat open as well as that crank "wobbles" an eccentric. Had some from both brands that way. Usually the "more familiar with their saw" types catch the lean condition and start digging or getting someone else to and catch the problem before the extreme situation where the cases go too. I had a rash like that early on with 372 and now with a few saws from the 2010--2015 era as they get to the end of their service life.
Huskybill
Addicted to ArboristSite
What causes the bearings to go bad?
Lack of oil? High ratio? Wrong brand of oil? Over heat the bearing?
Dirt, the air filter isn’t cleaned enough?
If we look up the bearing number to check out its specs it’s probably within reason it’s not the bearing. I don’t agree with 50:1 mix ratio,
I have a new 385 Xp with very low hours but I have two 285’s to assemble.
My sons new Kawasaki dirt bike blew the main out put shaft brg opposite the clutch twice. They put a thin flat washer in front of a needle brg so it got no oil feed. I dremeled two lines in the case so the breaking got oil. My son was so upset he installed a zerk fitting in the bearing boss in the case. I contacted kawasaki engineering. My point is any problems with products shove it back in there faces.
Lack of oil? High ratio? Wrong brand of oil? Over heat the bearing?
Dirt, the air filter isn’t cleaned enough?
If we look up the bearing number to check out its specs it’s probably within reason it’s not the bearing. I don’t agree with 50:1 mix ratio,
I have a new 385 Xp with very low hours but I have two 285’s to assemble.
My sons new Kawasaki dirt bike blew the main out put shaft brg opposite the clutch twice. They put a thin flat washer in front of a needle brg so it got no oil feed. I dremeled two lines in the case so the breaking got oil. My son was so upset he installed a zerk fitting in the bearing boss in the case. I contacted kawasaki engineering. My point is any problems with products shove it back in there faces.
I have a theory but nothing scientific you can repeat as "fact" so will give just a hint using 372's for discussion
The steel's handle two things better that the nylons. Heat & "coking" where the oil is baked onto the metal parts. Along with the nylon being more brittle when run hot for a while, the coking also eats at the nylon. Steel simply can handle those situations better, and the common denominator in most, not all; the saws I've seen with bearing failure is heat. Few exceptions but for the most part there are signs of elevated temps for a long time, darker deposits in the crank case a clue. So things that add heat like too tight a chain, too lean a mixture, dirty saw push things in the wrong direction. BTW "heat" will be generated if alignment issues put a slight twist on a bearing as well. For example if the centerlline of the two "pockets" are off a bit our even if the bearings was installed with a little twist, like if a shard of aluminum doesn't let the bearing seat square Another piece. Hardly ever see original edition 365/372 saw with bearing issue.....except one. XPW
I had one where it rattled the cases apart and opened the bearing pockets and the steel caged bearings STILL survived. Never have seen a 372 XT where the bearing pockets were opened up AND the bearing survived. So which is the chicken and which is the egg?
Huskybill
Addicted to ArboristSite
On the older Husqvarna dirtbikes I restore I notice some crank bearing have a steel cage while others have the nylon cage and have the same bearing number from the manufacturer. The orginal Husqvarna bearings are more expensive if you can find them. Some guys pull the switcheroo. They send you the nylon caged bearings. I wonder if the nylon cage would hold up in the tranny oil side.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)- Latest: GrizzlyAdams86
-
-
-
Anyone have guesses on what kind of tree this might be from?- Latest: Coralillo Lo Pro
-
-
-
