What the dealer told me today about "Big Brutus" ??

[Lakeside53]

Hi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:rockn: You.................Need<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< to ))))))))) talk to Andy?????????????????????????????????:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;OK

Don't you catch Talon's disease... It's very distracting...

>>>>>>>>>He already did, but he's checking with you guys! :hmm3grin2orange: <<<<<<<<<<<<

 

[sawinredneck]

Lake---------->>>>>>>>>was<<<<<<<just________trying////////to\\\\\\\prevent|||||||||BLOWSH!TUP>>>>>>>>>>.until[[[[[[[[you}}}}}}could\\\\\\\\set{{{{{him=========straight;;;;;;;;;;;Andy

 

[SawTroll]

as I am getting mixed information in my thread here Thanks for all input :biggrinbounce2: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon

Not too mixed, I believe - most of us were pulling mainly in the same direction....:greenchainsaw:

 

[mini kahuna]

I have seen many a saw"melted down" by tweaking the high mixture screw,if your looking for more power get a bigger saw,setup "big brutus" slightly towards the rich side and he will last you many years,go a little lean brutus will expire himself in an afternoon.
remember lean is mean.

 

[SawTroll]

A very good ost by computeruser just disappeared here - wtf happened....:angry2:

 

[04ultra]

A very good ost by computeruser just disappeared here - wtf happened....:angry2:

SawTroll your post will be next.....

 

[bump_r]

No Talon, no rev limit on that saw. What they are telling you is that when you set the saw up, set it at max RPM with the shorter bar unless you want to set it up each and every time you change the bars out. The 16" will have less friction/reciprocating mass thus will spin easier than the 20". If you were to set it with the 20" then put the 16" on it without readjusting you may overrev the saw and "BLOWSH!TUP!!!!" Nuff said?
Andy

The reciprocating mass = crankshaft journal, con rod, piston and rings - (the things that reciprocate, or go back and forth) - these do not change. The chain length and corresponding mass thereof does change with bar length changes. That's rotating mass. Newton's laws would suggest that the change in mass only would affect accleration and deceleration rates, not terminal velocity. The changes in terminal velocity bar length versus bar length is a function of friction, not mass. And definitely not the mass of the fixed reciprocating mass.

OMG, I'm sounding like shoerfast....

 

[computeruser]

A very good ost by computeruser just disappeared here - wtf happened....:angry2:

I thought I'd not be a PITA today, so I deleted it. But since you liked it, I'll put it back. I was feeling a bit crotchety when I typed it up, but I think that the point raised remains a valid one - unless we are collectors or restorers, we buy our saws to USE them. Many of us spend far too much time thinking about saws relative to the amount of time we spend actually using them. I know that I'm among that group. But some of us take it to an extreme, second-guessing EVERY single thing related to our saw purchase choices, upkeep choices, and upgrade choices.

I usually refrain from responding to these sorts of posts, just as I would refrain from responding to an annoying neighbor who engaged in an analgous behavior in real life. But sometimes you just have to say something, if only to preserve your own sanity.

So here's the earlier post:

Guess that I will close this thread because NO ONE single person can tell me for sure if the MS 361 has a rev limiter to protect the power head from air mailing a connecting rod or worse or not I must admit here that I am quite disappointed at the responses that I recieved so far. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon

No offense, but did you read any of the responses?
No less than 4 people stated NO there is NOT a rev limiter.
What do you want to hear?

It is always like this, Tom. More "thought" has gone into that silly little 361 than many surgeons put into performing a heart transplant. And to what end?

Talon, people DID answer your question. So don't go pouting and carrying on about how you can't get a good answer and how you're going to "close this thread." You asked a question and got a very good batch of answers. And you know what? The answers didn't come from homeowner saw users, but from people who know a great deal about this stuff, who work on saws in a professional capacity, and whose opinion is worth listening to.

In the end, though, it is just a saw. We're not talking rocket science here. Tune it by ear and then go cut some damned wood. Odds are very good that you'll be just fine tuning by ear and by feel - many of us have done this for years with good results. Even if you totally screw up, big deal - you're out $550 to buy a new one or $250 to do a piston and cylinder.

:deadhorse:

 

[manual]

It's ok Talon If you don't ask you will never understand. No Question is a Dumb Question.
Some of us like to hear about your growing experiences with your saw. Go for it.
Soon there will be no need to ask your dealer Questions about your saw.
Doesn't sound like I would ask that dealer anything at all.

You got the right answers from the guys around here.
Cut the limit tabs, Lean her out, till it burbles, then back it off. Adjust the low screw, tap the throttle, If it does not hesitate, your done. Cut wood.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIke <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

[Lakeside53]

It's ok Talon If you don't ask you will never understand. No Question is a Dumb Question.
Some of us like to hear about your growing experiences with your saw. Go for it.
Soon there will be no need to ask your dealer Questions about your saw.
Doesn't sound like I would ask that dealer anything at all.

You got the right answers from the guys around here.
Cut the limit tabs, Lean her out, till it burbles, then back it off. Adjust the low screw, tap the throttle, If it does not hesitate, your done. Cut wood.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIke <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Until you have experience to do it by ear with this saw, check with a tach also.. You might not hear a distinct burble on the 361... although it is easier to hear when the muffler is ported.

 

[manual]

Until you have experience to do it by ear with this saw, check with a tach also.. You might not hear a distinct burble on the 361... although it is easier to hear when the muffler is ported.

Hah Heck, Don't listen to Lake forget the tach.
Your a real man, "Mr. Chainsaw Man". We salute you.
Besides if it plows up you will then learn that your saw is not Rev limited. LOL

 

[ShoerFast]

It's ok Talon If you don't ask you will never understand. No Question is a Dumb Question.
Some of us like to hear about your growing experiences with your saw. Go for it.
Soon there will be no need to ask your dealer Questions about your saw.
Doesn't sound like I would ask that dealer anything at all.

You got the right answers from the guys around here.
Cut the limit tabs, Lean her out, till it burbles, then back it off. Adjust the low screw, tap the throttle, If it does not hesitate, your done. Cut wood.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIke <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

"Lean her out, till it burbles, then back it off."

PUT THE BOTTLE DOWN, AND STEP AWAY FROM THE KEY BOARD!

WOT (wide open throttle) back the "H" screw out (CCW) till it "burbles" or the sound changes to a distinct lower-tone, and back in till the sound comes back a mid tone.

Leaning (CW) it out is just what this thread is about, WOT and leaning it makes it scream.

The only saws that burble when lean are running brillo-pad filters!

 

[talon1189]

Thanks for all the positive advice I am feeling more confident making the correct adjustment with the added modified muffler and 16" bar. My new tach is due at the end of the week to confirm the adjustment. I have never adjusted a chainsaw before and wanna make sure that I do it correctly without blowing up Big Brutus. I am a professional mechanic by trade.... just not in chainsaws. I have changed my opinion and respect factor toward my selling dealer for telling me about the 361 being "rev limited" Daaayuum..........and I spent $1,200 bucks there in Stihl equipment this last summer :censored: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon

 

[04ultra]

Talon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<:rockn: Glad........WE ????????????????could Help:::::::::::::::::::in ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;answering your Question


:rockn: :rockn:

 

[ShoerFast]

Talon

This will come very naturally for you!

Just picture a 4-cylinder tune, even at idle, turning the mixture out the engine starts to lope a little, that happens when the mixture is getting a little over 10 : 1 ,,,,,, and when you turn a mixture in on a 4- cycle it falls flat on it's face too lean,,,,,, just favor the too rich side of that spot, you might find that just a 1/16th - an 1/8 of a turn in from a good burble will tach out real close.

To check it from the lean side, there will be a spot were turning the screw just a little in makes a huge increase in rpm's, that's a little to lean, just out from there.

 

[mini kahuna]

shoerfast that's a great,simple way to explain the high adjustment on a two cycle,awesome.

 

[musch]

I thought I'd not be a PITA today, so I deleted it. But since you liked it, I'll put it back. I was feeling a bit crotchety when I typed it up, but I think that the point raised remains a valid one - unless we are collectors or restorers, we buy our saws to USE them. Many of us spend far too much time thinking about saws relative to the amount of time we spend actually using them. I know that I'm among that group. But some of us take it to an extreme, second-guessing EVERY single thing related to our saw purchase choices, upkeep choices, and upgrade choices.

I usually refrain from responding to these sorts of posts, just as I would refrain from responding to an annoying neighbor who engaged in an analgous behavior in real life. But sometimes you just have to say something, if only to preserve your own sanity.

So here's the earlier post:





It is always like this, Tom. More "thought" has gone into that silly little 361 than many surgeons put into performing a heart transplant. And to what end?

Talon, people DID answer your question. So don't go pouting and carrying on about how you can't get a good answer and how you're going to "close this thread." You asked a question and got a very good batch of answers. And you know what? The answers didn't come from homeowner saw users, but from people who know a great deal about this stuff, who work on saws in a professional capacity, and whose opinion is worth listening to.

In the end, though, it is just a saw. We're not talking rocket science here. Tune it by ear and then go cut some damned wood. Odds are very good that you'll be just fine tuning by ear and by feel - many of us have done this for years with good results. Even if you totally screw up, big deal - you're out $550 to buy a new one or $250 to do a piston and cylinder.

:deadhorse:

Amen. I seriously wasn't trying to be a jerk, but I didn't get the tone of the message, which has since disappeared.
People here generally try to be helpful, which is, in this day and age, kind of amazing. Shows there are still a lot of good folks around, who will share some knowledge, for nothing more than a little friendship online. :rockn:

 

[ciscoguy01]

Changing bars

Soooo, and I'm asking this because i absolutely did not know this. If I change from say a 16 to a 20inch bar, I have to change the speed at which my saw runs at? I don't get it. I know the chain will turn slower with a bigger bar, but doesn't the power band stay the same? Kinda like a gear? The smaller the gear the more power/torque it will produce. What exactly is it you have to do when you change bars? Lean it or make it run rich???

 

[talon1189]

Soooo, and I'm asking this because i absolutely did not know this. If I change from say a 16 to a 20inch bar, I have to change the speed at which my saw runs at? I don't get it. I know the chain will turn slower with a bigger bar, but doesn't the power band stay the same? Kinda like a gear? The smaller the gear the more power/torque it will produce. What exactly is it you have to do when you change bars? Lean it or make it run rich???

ciscoguy.........Just read this entire thread over as your answer is all within this very thread opcorn: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Talon

 

[Lakeside53]

Soooo, and I'm asking this because i absolutely did not know this. If I change from say a 16 to a 20inch bar, I have to change the speed at which my saw runs at? I don't get it. I know the chain will turn slower with a bigger bar, but doesn't the power band stay the same? Kinda like a gear? The smaller the gear the more power/torque it will produce. What exactly is it you have to do when you change bars? Lean it or make it run rich???

The bar length has nothing to do with the "gearing".

You are not changing the "speed at which it runs"... just the speed LIMIT if required. Re-read my longer post a few back.

And NO, you don't change the mixture when you change a bar unless you need to STOP it from exceeding the max design RPM. Chasing the mixture setting all over the place with different bars sizes is a recipe for meltdown.

Under-sizing a bar is as problematic as over-sizing. On say a 361, on a short bar (16) you should be looking at an 8 tooth sprocket (your "gear"). On a medium bar (20-24), a 7, and on a long bar (28), a 7 plus the move to skip chain. Maybe skip at 24 also... The idea is to stay IN the power band while the throttle is wide open.

I once ran an 036 with a 16 bar, 8 tooth sprocket and a full skip chain. Cut 10 inch alder like butter! and I could sharpen the chain in about 1 minute. But in an instant it was real easy to be cutting at 12.5k... and it should have been at 9-10k. I probably should have been running full comp, but...

Be careful on short bars and big saws - the chain needs to be cutting and the HP going into the chips... If you put a 16" bar on a 660, then tune it for max rpm (it will be really rich and not optimal), you can't get a sprocket big enough, so the only option is to move to a bigger chain... Nothing like .404 for throwing chips.


Confused? Good! now go cut some wood