When do you replace chains?

[wdchuck]

What is the determining factor for you to replace chains, efficiency of the chain, remaining cutter size, too damaged/rocked to waste time sharpening, ...etc.., ??

Also, what chain manufacturer do you use, Stihl, Carlton, Oregon?

Do you instruct workers to swap out chains when they rock them, or the cutting efficiency drops(chips become dust)?

One more, typical number of sharpenings after groundie use, before the chains get replaced?

As I was filing chains last night, the brain was trying to find the balance that will work for us, but would also like to know what others methods/mentalities are in regard to this. Stihl chains cost the most, so getting 'monies worth' seems to make sense, but then there's working efficiency to think of, whereas the other mfg's chains are less, and tossing them sooner for the sake of overall efficiency.

Trying to shorten the learning curve on this one, thanks guys.

 

[2FatGuys]

My determining factor is the useability of the chain. That means that damage and cutter size are most important to me. We hand file unless there is significant damage and then our dealer sharpens for us. Our previous dealer used to take off too much on a sharpening, reducing the useable life of the chain.

We use Stihl and Oregon chain. I haven't tried Carlton yet, but hear good things about its durability.

We swap chains "when we feel like it". That could be due to less efficient cutting, or a rapid dulling from finding an embeded nail or other foreign object. If we ever see dust rather than chips (except of course on some large branch unions), we swap out the chain rather than overheating the bar or overworking the saw.

Since all sawyers are different, all cutting conditions are different and all trees are different, there is no rule of thumb for how long a chain should last or how many filings can be done to a chain.

 

[TDunk]

I'll file my chains right down to the witness mark if i can. If i just rock it a little bit, i'll file it. But if its too bad i'll just junk it rather than waste time trying to get one more use out of it. I like Stihl chain better, but i just buy Oregon chain when it's on sale in quantity. The Stihl is harder and last longer, but for me the cost is to high for all the longer the chains last. I personally don't buy chain for my groundies. They have there own saws etc. I provide PPE, but i pay them enough to fix there own epuipment. Plus i find that if there running there own equipment, they take better care of it. Tree work isn't my main income. It's more than a part time job, so i'm sure people here that do it for a living have diff. opinion

 

[treemandan]

What is the determining factor for you to replace chains, efficiency of the chain, remaining cutter size, too damaged/rocked to waste time sharpening, ...etc.., ??

Also, what chain manufacturer do you use, Stihl, Carlton, Oregon?

Do you instruct workers to swap out chains when they rock them, or the cutting efficiency drops(chips become dust)?

One more, typical number of sharpenings after groundie use, before the chains get replaced?

As I was filing chains last night, the brain was trying to find the balance that will work for us, but would also like to know what others methods/mentalities are in regard to this. Stihl chains cost the most, so getting 'monies worth' seems to make sense, but then there's working efficiency to think of, whereas the other mfg's chains are less, and tossing them sooner for the sake of overall efficiency.

Trying to shorten the learning curve on this one, thanks guys.

It is hilarious this subject gets so drawn out but I am down. It usually comes down to the fact that precision is key to getting the hell out of there and getting paid while not having stupid problems stop you. Go out with the wrong stuff or stuff that is not right...
I do have a 200 that gets used for ground work and I, personally, will jam it into the twisted trunks of low growing shrubs with out a moments hesitation. It usually will have an older chain on it for that kind of thing but still, consider the fact that you can be upside down and operate it I don't use chains that have been around. When you operate a big saw you are supposed to be behind it and that usually is the case. If you run it while someone is front of you, well, you shouldn't. I wouldn't hang out there. I bit the safety bullet on the little chains because they do break. good chance of damage if it even just derails.
I have all the other rear handle saw chains sharpened professionally by the nitwit down the road. I think he charges me 6 bucks to screw them up for me but I don't want to do it myself even if I had a grinder . I think every 2 seconds of using them you have to adjust them and they require time as well. I keep a rotating stock of old chains and live for the day I use them up because then I get to make a shiney new one. I do get better results hand filing my own chains but i never have the time and when on a job it is to bothersome to stop and sharpen a big chain. Besides out in the field there is no place to sharpen a chain. The chipper is blasting away, you are digging around the tool box for a rusty file, its either freezing so you want to keep moving or its so hot sweat is dripping in your eyes, of course there is no shade, you just cut the trees down. I have plenty of chains on hand, they are made by Stihl. If your dealer is doing his job it should be around the same price as the others.If you have to order it I am sorry.

 

[steelhead kid]

drawn out, yes

Did i miss something? sharpen the chain all the way to the mark, even a little after, when the width of the cutter starts to shorten its done.

oregon and stihl chain round here .


chain sharpening forum???

 

[StihlRockin']

Many have and will mimic what I could say and add, so I'll remark on something else... increased training.

When I have taken special consideration to JAM the idea of keeping the chains out of the dirt, my efforts have mostly rewarded me, but sometimes those requests come after a constant barrage of reminders. There's always one who couldn't keep the saw out of the dirt to save his life. That's the guy who I try and not have operate the saw.

I'll teach everyone who will be handling the saws that I have special ways I want the brush/logs to be cut, then I'll show them, then remind them when I see them cutting haphazardly.

Spending that extra time to show that people HAVE to keep the chain out of the dirt is top priority, then explain the downfalls and time-wasting that occurs when such mishaps occur. When I've taken the time to explain to them, over-and-over to keep the chain out of the dirt, they WILL get it into their skull sooner of later!

StihlRockin'

 

[Bermie]

Treemandan...'in the field there is no place to sharpen a chain'...'digging around in the tool box for a rusty file'...

Huh? Stump vice, cut a slot, bang it in, there's your place. You travel to work without an adequate supply of maintenance tools? No servicable files?

I keep chains till they are within a few mm of the witness mark, I have about three chains for each saw, so usually its a swap in the field, unless I've got time, then file em in place. I like to rotate the chains so they wear in to the sprocket, go through three chains, time for a new sprocket too.

 

[wdchuck]

Thanks for the replies so far, I'm starting to get some ideas . Filed the last chain of a handful today, most of the cutters lost 30%+++ of remaining material to get them to fresh metal.

 

[treemandan]

Treemandan...'in the field there is no place to sharpen a chain'...'digging around in the tool box for a rusty file'...

Huh? Stump vice, cut a slot, bang it in, there's your place. You travel to work without an adequate supply of maintenance tools? No servicable files?

I keep chains till they are within a few mm of the witness mark, I have about three chains for each saw, so usually its a swap in the field, unless I've got time, then file em in place. I like to rotate the chains so they wear in to the sprocket, go through three chains, time for a new sprocket too.

Oh yeah I have one if I ever need it, thankfully I have never have. Ten strokes each tooth on the big saws sucks anywhere.

 

[treemandan]

Thanks for the replies so far, I'm starting to get some ideas . Filed the last chain of a handful today, most of the cutters lost 30%+++ of remaining material to get them to fresh metal.

That is why I still take them to the shop, its a project.



If you are hand filing it is quicker to remove the bad material with a bigger file then shape it up with the right size, sometimes.

 

[scottr]

Thanks for the replies so far, I'm starting to get some ideas . Filed the last chain of a handful today, most of the cutters lost 30%+++ of remaining material to get them to fresh metal.

Wdchuck, if the chain is damaged, I use a raker file to remove the damage back to fresh metal then the round file to sharpen.

 

[clearance]

Right to the bitter end.

 

[wdchuck]

I'll have to try the aggresive file approach, although I'd rather the guys just swap the chains next time. We'll see, change comes slowly sometimes.

 

[pbtree]

I file them to the line on the cutter - only file by hand. If it is too messed up to file by hand, then it gets junked.

I always have 2-3 spare chains in the truck for whatever saws i am running, for those inevitable "Oh cr*&" moments in the field...

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Right to the bitter end.

Indeed!

To the topic.

I let my groundies learn on old chains. They came to me yesterday wanting to know if they can have a new chain. I looked at them like they were out of there minds and winked. The one they had still has a million miles left to go. I asked them what was wrong with the one they had.

It's not cutting.

Sharpen it.

We need a review because we can't get it to sharpen.

These young guys are going to learn that they can't cruise through this industry with a bunch of head nodding to get me to shut up. LOL!

This is one of the best opportunities that I have to prove it. It’s all "fun and games" till the chips stop flying. Like the sixteen year old out chasing girls and brings the car home all screwed up. "Dad the car isn't running right, can you fix it."

No, I fixed it once already and showed you how. Now you're going to have to work at it and the next time I teach you something you might listen the first time. I'll advise, but you're the one with the hands on.


Therefore, old chains have an unseen purpose here to illustrate that there is more to all of this than meets the eye and this can set the stage for their future training and advancement in other aspects of the industry.

If you give them a new one (whether they keep it out of the dirt or not) they haven't learned a thing, nor are they likely to in other areas with respect to the desired depth of the knowledge they need to be ultimately safe, successful, productive and therefore profitable, either for a company or themselves.

Of course they may go on to never sharpening chains ever again, or digging through rusty files in an emergency while trying to remember what that old boss said. Chances are, if that is the attitude, they will be wishing that they had remembered other things that were said before it is all over.

In any event, those too involved to bother with sharpening can send your "old" chains to me. I'll pay the shipping.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Does anyone else do this?

The guy who sharpens my chains when they are too bad to hand file will reduce the angle slightly as it get closer to the witness mark to maintain more of the tooth. I think he might go as much as 10 degrees less. Ive never seen a drastic effect on cutting speed.

 

[hammerlogging]

to the bitter end, unless it gets rocked when its more than 60% wore out, then its probably trashed. Down to the marks, or further. They get sharpened "straight out of the box" and yes, 2-3 chains per saw, swap em or file em in the field. Whats it take to file in the field? Nothing but a file. Use new files, keep em clean and its much easier. An old chain cuts faster than a new one cause it has a narrower curf.

True,make your new groundies learn. Advise, instruct,l every once in a while show em what a sharp chain is really like, and don't let em run a dull chain. If its not throwing chips it ain't worth using.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

to the bitter end, unless it gets rocked when its more than 60% wore out, then its probably trashed. Down to the marks, or further. They get sharpened "straight out of the box" and yes, 2-3 chains per saw, swap em or file em in the field. Whats it take to file in the field? Nothing but a file. Use new files, keep em clean and its much easier. An old chain cuts faster than a new one cause it has a narrower curf.

True,make your new groundies learn. Advise, instruct,l every once in a while show em what a sharp chain is really like, and don't let em run a dull chain. If its not throwing chips it ain't worth using.

I sharpen every weekend so we hit the ground running on Monday with chips in the air. They know when its played out and time for attention. If we are trying to beat the sun down I'll swap in a fresh chain.

 

[grandpatractor]

Treemandan...'in the field there is no place to sharpen a chain'...'digging around in the tool box for a rusty file'...

Huh? Stump vice, cut a slot, bang it in, there's your place. You travel to work without an adequate supply of maintenance tools? No servicable files?

I keep chains till they are within a few mm of the witness mark, I have about three chains for each saw, so usually its a swap in the field, unless I've got time, then file em in place. I like to rotate the chains so they wear in to the sprocket, go through three chains, time for a new sprocket too.

Good post Bermie.Thats what I try to do also

 

[B-Edwards]

I'm with Termitus, send me your old chains I would never have to buy a new chain again . When I get rid of a chain the teeth are breaking off and they still cut fine ( until too may teeth are gone). I use a Silvey chain grinder to sharpen chains, they only waste chain when an idiot or someone who doesnt care uses them. I use semi-round chisel and only Stihl chain (don't send me your used chains unless they are Stihl).You have to get the point back or it wont cut. If your running a saw you need to try to understand how it works from tip to tip. I had a small booklet that explained how and what a chain does while cutting. It was very informative. Hand filing does OK unless your doing it everyday for some fool who doesn't understand how to use a saw, but when you have that fool you will tire of it fast.