When do you replace chains?

[HolmenTree]

Yes I agree in this business you readily need to have on hand sharp spare chains,new files and the capability to touch up a dulled chain on the job site with a hand file.As an arborist I sharpen my own sawchain. A little advice unless your a NW Pacific timber faller or sharpen for a living don't bother with the bench mounted chain grinder or worse the Dremil. I made up a little jig that I can tighten in my bench vise and mount a bar and chain on it .Now I take a 4 1/2" angle grinder and ever so GENTLY bring back the rocked teeth to a good edge.I then finish with a file.Saves alot of time and files.I carry a cordless 4 1/2" angle grinder in my truck for those emergencies onthe worksite.Always sharpen back to the laser mark on the top plate but make sure you keep your bar rails tight or those little teeth will cut on, off and on again in the kerf [ not very productive].Laminated bars are impossible to tighten no matter if you hammer or use a bar rail closer tool.So for your ground saws make sure their not laminated.

 

[Absolute2]

I buy 100' rolls of chain for each saw and make my own. I have built up about 20-25 chains for each type of saw and when I start to run low on sharp ones I have one of my guys come in for a shop day and go to it with a grinder with diamond wheels (expensive setup but worth it). He can usually sharpen them all up and then I'm good to go for a couple months. If the chains have hit something too bad, rebar,brick or something of the sort they are usually not worth the effort even with a grinder. I try and have 5-6 chains for each type of saw with me in the field so we can just swap them out. the only exception is climbing saws, which we hand sharpen for that little extra bit of sharpness

 

[adam]

there are some really good tips posted already. I try not to go to work with one chainsaw (big no-no) or get down to one chain for a chainsaw. I run Stihl only (2 x 660, 2 x 260, 2 x 200T and 038 "brasilian wonder") File by hand in a vice, on badly damaged chains I use Stihl grinding stones on a pneumatic grinder (I know, not everybody has a compressor in the workshop, mentioned above larger size files or flat file work very well). Gettig all the way to the witness mark makes me somehow happy. It's not always possible, if I hit a stone or a beer bottle (flushing stumps from multistemmed trees is always an adventure) with an older chain, I just trash it. There is also something, I do not understand; " long chains take more time to sharpen" - on 36" bar I use skip chain, and it takes same time to sharpen as full compliment on 24"...

 

[adam]

I sharpen chains in "an instrument attached to a workbench, with two movable jaws between which an object may be clamped so as to leave the hands free to work on it" a.k.a. a vise. Picture shows when I give up on a chain.

 

[HolmenTree]

I sharpen chains in "an instrument attached to a workbench, with two movable jaws between which an object may be clamped so as to leave the hands free to work on it" a.k.a. a vise. Picture shows when I give up on a chain.

I looked at your illustration what you would give up. I'd still sharpen it. Still lots of good life there. I can see why you get discouraged from using those small Stihl sharpening stones even driven by a air grinder would be slow and make alot of heat making future handfilling on that tooth next to impossible because of the tempering.When I wrote post#22 maybe I made it sound a little too complicated.The jig I built is just a 6"x 6"x 1/4" piece of steel with an old rim sprocket bolted on 1 edge of it and 2 bar studs on the opposite side, clamp the bottom edge in the bench vise put a guide bar on it now I can sharpen my weeks supply of dull chains on it. Grinding back a severly dulled chain with the powerfull 4 1/2" angle hand grinder and a course thin disc if done carefully won't heat up the tooth and is 10 times faster then those Stihl stones.Now the chain can be finished with the file.I run skip chain on all my ground saws from 18" up to 42".

 

[Blakesmaster]

My procedure.

1. Locate pickup truck.

2. Lower tailgate.

3. Sharpen.

By placing the tip of the bar in the corner by the taillight with the butt of the saw against your pelvis you can generally keep it still enough to touch up the teeth. It gets a bit tricky with really big or really small saws but it's still my favorite on the job method. I take my teeth right down to the witness mark and keep my rakers just a hair below the tip of each tooth.

 

[treeclimber jul]

Keep my saws always sharp, I also sharpen down to the line or past. I found that old sharp chains with more space between the raker and tooth, cut better in really hard wood, like old dead Black Locust.

 

[CharlieK]

I have a nice bench grinder. I sharpen all my own chains all the time. I sharpen regularly, and just enough. It is easy to take off too much and overheat the chain and reduce the life of it, if you don't pay attention. If you do it yourself, and care, you will be surprised how much life you can get out of a chain. It only takes 3 to 5 minutes to do a chain, in the shop. I keep several chains around for each saw so in the field all I have to do is change them out. They last a long time if done regularly.

I don't have patience for filing on a job site. Nor can I file straight and even. After filing badly, the grinder has to work hard to clean up the mess.

Grinders are good. But in the end, if filing works for you, have at it!

I like my grinder.

Charlie K.

 

[HolmenTree]

Yes I admit I have never owned a bench chaingrinder. I was seriously looking at buying one from Baileys a few years ago because I was frustrated from all the files I was going thru since starting my tree service 9 years ago. I never cut metal in a tree when I was logging years before. Now its every 2nd tree.
But a few years ago while in the shop filing a pile of battered chains,I saw my angle grinder lying there and gave it a try, got the disc between the depth gauge and cutter and zip the smashed corner was gone down to good corner again.All I know is how to file so then I forgot about Bailey's grinder.It is not a proud thing to do even looks kind of stupid using a big angle grinder on my chain but it works for me.

 

[wdchuck]

Go away for a weekend to cut wood and this thread has matured like a fine wine.
Thank you all, for the great info, it will be compiled as a chapter in a noobie/groundie training manual, to be referenced often, and on site reminders, as they learn and build confidence.

And if this doesn't do it, they'll be filing chains until their fingers cramp.....lol.

 

[Bicboro]

Don't listen to hammerlogging. He never knows what is going on, I never use chains as long as the manufacturer recommends. How can you. There is no way to keep the teeth even unless you use a bench grinder( which then one side still has a lift). And then, do you want to be the one that a piece of shard metal lodges into? I recommend 6 sharpening's then call it quits.

 

[clearance]

Don't listen to hammerlogging. He never knows what is going on, I never use chains as long as the manufacturer recommends. How can you. There is no way to keep the teeth even unless you use a bench grinder( which then one side still has a lift). And then, do you want to be the one that a piece of shard metal lodges into? I recommend 6 sharpening's then call it quits.

WTF? With bells on.

All I have ever used is a hand file. For over 20 years, filed every chain till there was almost nothing left, still do. Never been stuck with a piece of steel, (not from a saw) steel doesn't get infected anyways.

 

[(WLL)]

WTF? With bells on.

All I have ever used is a hand file. For over 20 years, filed every chain till there was almost nothing left, still do. .

x2 - a few years. lol. and i was thinking clearance was a young gun

 

[hammerlogging]

thanks fellas. this guy just sought me out all over the place. I could have posted my responses in the back of a book in the library of congress and he would have found it, but I chose in the logging forum under BC engineering or something. Look up this guys posts and check out how hes barraged nice hammer. Yes, i'm opinionated, but hell, thats cause I know what I'm talking about.

Keep on filin'. J

 

[RPM]

He found you there too....in the Logging forum...thought you were p*ssed at me at first but I see whats going on now -had to read it a couple of times. I too file down to a nubbin - why not? Good chain isn't cheap - I usually keep a couple of those around for dirty work.

Keep posting HL - diversity and experience in this forum is what keeps me returning.

 

[pdqdl]

Why file all the time ?

To answer the original post: I take my chains down to the witness mark, if the chain lasts that long. Every part of a chain can wear out, and if any are worn out or damaged beyond repair, pitch it.

Regarding the issue of how far to sharpen the teeth: it's ok to take the teeth back to the witness mark, but I haven't heard anyone mention taking down the depth gauges. The shorter the length of the tooth (not the height!), then it becomes more important to increase the cut depth by adjusting the depth gauges. On a relatively new chain, I like 30 thousandths clearance. Aggressive cut, tolerates a little more wear before it starts making sawdust instead of chips. As the tooth gets closer to the witness mark, there is a greater tendency for the chain to rock backwards from the proper cutting angle, and I increase the grind on the depth gauges to 35-40 thousandths clearance to compensate. Lower the depth gauge to much, especially on hard wood or with a weak saw, and you have made the chain impractical to use.


For all you dedicated hand filers: Do you take a brand new chain and hand file it before you use it? You don't think that Stihl has an army of mountain gnomes hand filing all their new chains do you? They come from the factory sharpened by a grinder.

The old argument about how hand filing is better than machine grinding is not true. It is true that bad grinding is worse than bad hand filing. It's easier to damage a chain with a grinder, because it has more horsepower and goes a lot faster.

Just like hand filing, sharpening with a machine made to do the job takes a bit of training. If the operator doesn't know what he is doing, or doesn't care, then the result will be poor sharpening or damaged chains.

My humble opinion on the whole topic is this: hand file when you are in the field, and don't have a replacement chain or mobile grinder. Small chains or chains that are only a little dull can often be hand filed quicker than you can dismount the chain. If it's quicker, hand file it. It's all about money, and time is money. I can bench grind a dull 20" chain MUCH faster than anyone can hand file to equal sharpness. I can have a stack of chains sharpened faster than most people can drive to a dealer twice to deliver and then pick up chains.

If anybody wants to learn how to use a bench grinder, there are lots of places to learn. If you use chainsaws for a living, you will save money. A tree service not owning a chain grinder is about as silly as a tire repair shop not having a tire machine. Sure, you can get by without it, but why ?

Spend the extra $200 for the BOROZON wheel (some people think they are diamond wheels, but they are not). They cut the steel, rather than abrading it. Almost no heat involved, and the filings don't even burn up. It is actually difficult to burn a chain tooth with that wheel, which can still be hand filed because it was never burned by the bench grinder.

 

[pdqdl]

Yes I agree in this business you readily need to have on hand sharp spare chains,new files and the capability to touch up a dulled chain on the job site with a hand file.As an arborist I sharpen my own sawchain. A little advice unless your a NW Pacific timber faller or sharpen for a living don't bother with the bench mounted chain grinder or worse the Dremil. I made up a little jig that I can tighten in my bench vise and mount a bar and chain on it .Now I take a 4 1/2" angle grinder and ever so GENTLY bring back the rocked teeth to a good edge.I then finish with a file.Saves alot of time and files.I carry a cordless 4 1/2" angle grinder in my truck for those emergencies onthe worksite.Always sharpen back to the laser mark on the top plate but make sure you keep your bar rails tight or those little teeth will cut on, off and on again in the kerf [ not very productive].Laminated bars are impossible to tighten no matter if you hammer or use a bar rail closer tool.So for your ground saws make sure their not laminated.

Ok. I'll admit you can sharpen a chain that way, but can you completely sharpen another tooth every 4-8 seconds ? That sounds like more work than just plain hand filing. That's all the time it takes on a bench grinder, and they do it with perfect accuracy, if you make sure they are working right.

 

[grandpatractor]

For all you dedicated hand filers: Do you take a brand new chain and hand file it before you use it? You don't think that Stihl has an army of mountain gnomes hand filing all their new chains do you? They come from the factory sharpened by a grinder.

The old argument about how hand filing is better than machine grinding is not true. It is true that bad grinding is worse than bad hand filing. It's easier to damage a chain with a grinder, because it has more horsepower and goes a lot faster.

.

I disagree with this. I know that I can file a chain and make it cut faster than a brand new out of the box. It does take practice and after a while they may not cut as smooth as a new. I eyeball pretty well but I know that I can't keep them as even as a grinder. I can run a couple tanks thru usually before my chains cut like a new out of the box. I'm not bragging and I know others that can. Just stating the Facts. lol

 

[hammerlogging]

Since there is a depth gauge for each and every tooth, and, atleast with the depth gauge I use, each "raker" is filed exactly to each tooth to which it corresponds, it doesn't matter if your teeth are different sizes. As long as you file your depth gauges as needed, I personally touch them up every three filings or so, then your chain will be cutting as perfectly, or better than, out of the box.

 

[HolmenTree]

Ok. I'll admit you can sharpen a chain that way, but can you completely sharpen another tooth every 4-8 seconds ? That sounds like more work than just plain hand filing. That's all the time it takes on a bench grinder, and they do it with perfect accuracy, if you make sure they are working right.

When I say "rocked chain " I mean 1/3 of the tooth gone . Thats when I use the 4 1/2" grinder. You are saying your grinder can sharpen that in 4-8 secs! Man thats going to take some major pressure and heat, which in turn tempers that tooth to hardness where a file in the field could never touch it.And even if you could keep the heat down what kind of sharp ,durable edge are you going to have?

I know it sounds silly using a 4 1/2 grinder. As a faller I never had to use it ,every chain was hand filed from start to finished. One main saw and you looked after it. Since starting the tree service as an arborist ,now its many more saws,rocks and steel in the wood , I never cut steel in trees when I was logging in the wilds. I can now take a pile of rocked chains grind them all back to good chrome and then do my tried and tested hand filing.
Hand filing is talent not everyone can do unless they keep doing it and keep it up. I can round and chisel bit file equally well both ways ............. because I keep doing it and keep it up. I modify sawchain for timbersport competition and a hand filed chisel bit tooth cuts more efficently and faster then a square ground tooth [ a file is flat and a grinding wheel is curved] A chisel cuts more efficently with a flat taper not a curved taper.

Hand filing is an art to be proud of . When you can feel the tooth as you file it you tend to understand it better, and in turn with enough practice you can do it with perfect accuracy and speed.