When do you replace chains?

[Freakingstang]

I use brand new chains until they don't cut anymore then put a new one on. The old chain goes to the scrap/recycle yard to help with the purchase cost of new chains.

That is what the rental shop does........:monkey:

 

[Freakingstang]

When I say "rocked chain " I mean 1/3 of the tooth gone . Thats when I use the 4 1/2" grinder. You are saying your grinder can sharpen that in 4-8 secs! Man thats going to take some major pressure and heat, which in turn tempers that tooth to hardness where a file in the field could never touch it.

I know it sounds silly using a 4 1/2 grinder. As a faller I never had to use it ,every chain was hand filed . One main saw and you looked after it. Since starting the tree service as an arborist , many more saws,rocks and steel in the wood , I never cut steel in trees when I was logging in the wilds. I can now take a pile of rocked chains grind them all back to good chrome and then do my tried and tested hand filing.
Hand filing is talent not everyone can do unless they keep doing it and keep it up. I can round and chisel bit file equally both ways ............. because I keep doing it and keep it up. I modify sawchain for timbersport competition and a hand filed chisel bit tooth cuts more efficently and faster then a square ground chain [ a file is flat and a grinding wheel is curved] A chisel cuts more efficently with a flat taper not a curved taper.

Hand filing is an art to be proud of . When you can feel the tooth as you file it you tend to understand it better, and in turn with enough practice you can do it with perfect accuracy.

Good post. Some people would **** their pants if they saw how much I filed a tooth back on a new chain for play chains. I say play chains becuase I don't race, but would like to get into more local competitions if the work schedule permitted it. Kinda hard to enter a comp when you are 2-3K miles from home.....

 

[Ollie B]

Wdchuck, if the chain is damaged, I use a raker file to remove the damage back to fresh metal then the round file to sharpen.

I just started using a raker file for all of my chains. That square tooth seems to have really increased my saw's efficiency.

 

[Freakingstang]

I just started using a raker file for all of my chains. That square tooth seems to have really increased my saw's efficiency.

IT is also more prone to dulling by dirt/sand ingestion.

Welcome, it is nice to have another square filer on board. We are few and far between

 

[046]

used to laugh at folks who changed out chains, rather than take the 3-4 minutes to hand sharpen.

have switched to square cut chains and joined ranks with folks who changes out chains. instead of hand filing.

normally carry a dozen extra chains, consisting of different sizes, square and round. round cut for dirty wood and/or stumps. square for everything else, except 200T which I still hand file.

difference is 100ft bulk chains and a simington square grinder. making a batch of 10 extra chains, then sharpening is not a big deal. factory chain is not near fast as a properly ground square chain. using an 8in grinding wheel means less chance of overheating your tooth.

yes... you do have to modify your cutting habits for square chain. like only cutting to where wood has no chance of hitting dirt. then rolling over log for the rest.

really spoils you.... always cutting on sharp square chain!

 

[Ollie B]

yes... you do have to modify your cutting habits for square chain. like only cutting to where wood has no chance of hitting dirt. then rolling over log for the rest.

really spoils you.... always cutting on sharp square chain!

So why exactly does a square filed chain get dulled faster when it hits dirt?

 

[046]

square tooth is ground with a thinner supporting edge than round ground chain. because of cutting edges being more aggressive, square cuts faster, but is more fragile.

my fresh ground square cuts aprox. 25% faster than round... your mileage may veri..

it's debatable long each stays sharp, square vs round when cutting only clean wood. no question square dulls immediately upon contact with dirt. vs round will tolerate dirty wood much better.

both dull quickly after hitting a rock and/or iron.

it's a moot point for most folks as price of entry is a square chain grinder. new square chain grinders start at $800 range and go up to $2,500 range.. flat ridiculous! but that's what happens when silvey is the only game in town. only other option is finds used square grinder. which are like hens teeth.

someone posted here that they had one for sale for $250.... jumped on that, sent paypal within minutes. total costs with shipping $290.

had to go through entire machine, but simington 450 came right back up. setup was not the easiest without a manual, but with help of several folks on AS... got simington purring..

without question one of the best buys... I've ever done!!!

So why exactly does a square filed chain get dulled faster when it hits dirt?

 

[pdqdl]

I disagree with this. I know that I can file a chain and make it cut faster than a brand new out of the box. It does take practice and after a while they may not cut as smooth as a new. I eyeball pretty well but I know that I can't keep them as even as a grinder. I can run a couple tanks thru usually before my chains cut like a new out of the box. I'm not bragging and I know others that can. Just stating the Facts. lol

Sorry. The shape of the wheel where it contacts the tooth is the same as the file. So...it all boils down to technique. No matter what type or shape of sharpening you put on the tooth with your round file, I can duplicate it with the bench grinder.

I fully support hand filing, because it works very well for the experienced, and I have never seen anyone burn a tooth with a hand file. Sometimes it is faster than taking the chain off the saw and using a grinder. But that doesn't change the fact that it is usually faster and more accurate to use a machine to do the same job. Put an idiot on the grinder, and you can ruin a chain in just a couple of minutes.

Time IS money, when it comes to sharpening chains. Get a good grinder, and you won't go back.

 

[pdqdl]

NEVER burn a tooth

When I say "rocked chain " I mean 1/3 of the tooth gone . Thats when I use the 4 1/2" grinder. You are saying your grinder can sharpen that in 4-8 secs! Man thats going to take some major pressure and heat, which in turn tempers that tooth to hardness where a file in the field could never touch it.And even if you could keep the heat down what kind of sharp ,durable edge are you going to have?

(rest of quote deleted)

No, the Borozon wheels pull right through the metal and don't change the temper of the tooth. It's amazing. Almost like using a metal lathe to cut machine threads: it's not generating much heat, since it cuts the metal, rather than grinding it away.

All your other points are valid, and I don't disagree about the old fashioned stone wheels taking away the temper if you hurried through a sharpening. But with a little patience, even a stone wheel does not burn the tooth, and it's MUCH faster than hand filing a rocked chain.

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

2.00 Each Sharp

I always hand file my chains when i can. If i'm pressed or just got one that's really ate up guy in the saw shop at the farmers co-op here in town does a mean number on them for 2.00. I'm a husky man, but stihl's chain is hard to beat. Kinda like a sore peter!!!LMAO!!

 

[kennyplay]

electric versus hand

Hello, read your quote. being a certified guy, and saw that you use a bench grinder and hand, i thought i would ask you.
My friend has a hand filer, attaches to the bar. However, I am considering this one

http://onlinestore.forestindustry.com/scripts/granbergint/G1012XT.html

I think this can only take 3/16, 5/32 or 7/32 files. 12 volt DC...i think it only fits up to 7/32..

I run a Stihl 034AV super, 3/8" .050 66 drive links. Through Bailey's, I've gotten Woodsman pro (30RC) which recommends using 7/32 file. However, the same chain 3/8" .050 66 links for a Stihl chain (33RMC) recommends 13/64 file. I was taking my chains to a hardware/saw dealer to get them sharpened. They just "slice" them off. I want to file them right, with a curve. I now have an assortment of woodsman pro and stihl chains, that need sharpening but with different files. I would like to get the DC chain filler. Have you , or anyone you know had experience with it? My friend has one similar to this one , hand filer

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHAINSAW-CHAIN-...ryZ85915QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This one says it can take all size files...

I like the Stihl chain best, get a great price on them, the same as the Woodsmanpro when I buy 2 or more but I don't think I can use the motorized DC sharpener because it does'nt take 13/64 file. I would appreciate any and all of your thoughts ..Thanks

I get all of the use I can out of a chain. Even when the teeth get short they can still be sharpened to cut well. I use all Stihl chain and Stihl chain has a 'witness' mark on the tooth at the point where the chain is no longer usable. I use both a bench grinder and hand filing and haven't taken a chain to someone to be sharpened in over 20 years.

 

[kennyplay]

Question about file size

Hello, I have a Stihl 034AV Super. I switched it over to 3/8 pitch .050 with 66 drive links- 18" bar. Stihl telld me that I need 13/64 file for their Stihl chain.

I also bought some Woodsmanpro, (same specs) and they say use 7/32...

Question, I want to run a Granberg G1012C DC electric grinder but they only carry 3 files. 1 of which, the biggest is 7/32. They Granberg told me that 7/32will work for the Stihl chain. Yes, I can use a 13/64 file manually, but I would like to use the DC grinder.

What are your guys thoughts on this??? thanks

 

[HolmenTree]

Kennyplay ,stay away from the grinder. If you want to grind spend a couple 100 more and get a decent bench mounted grinder. But in all reality to be a knowledgable saw man, learn to file , even with the Stihl bar mounted filer you can learn your angles better then going blindly free hand if you have no experience.On a full size 3/8 chain I always start with a 7/32 when the cutters are new , then switch to the smaller 13/64 or 5 mm when the teeth are filed about 1/2 ways.

 

[pdqdl]

...
My friend has a hand filer, attaches to the bar. However, I am considering this one

http://onlinestore.forestindustry.com/scripts/granbergint/G1012XT.html

I think this can only take 3/16, 5/32 or 7/32 files. 12 volt DC...i think it only fits up to 7/32..

I run a Stihl 034AV super, 3/8" .050 66 drive links. Through Bailey's, I've gotten Woodsman pro (30RC) which recommends using 7/32 file. However, the same chain 3/8" .050 66 links for a Stihl chain (33RMC) recommends 13/64 file.

[copy deleted for brevity]

I like the Stihl chain best, get a great price on them, the same as the Woodsmanpro when I buy 2 or more but I don't think I can use the motorized DC sharpener because it does'nt take 13/64 file. I would appreciate any and all of your thoughts ..Thanks

I don't like the little DC sharpener's for two reasons: In my very limited experience, they are not a bit faster than hand filing. 2nd reason: the little bitty stones that they use wear down VERY fast, and end up having the wrong shape to do a good job. If you waste the money on the diamond files, they retain their shape well, but go deathly slow on sharpening.

Regarding hand filing jigs of all varieties: I have never seen an experienced tree worker using one of them. After you learn the proper shape of the cutter you are using, everybody seems to throw the hand filing jigs out. I have only seen a couple that even seemed to do the job right.

You will find that getting the angle and depth precisely right is not really that important. Getting the point filed sharp and the right amount of "hook" on the cutter is. Learn to look for that tiny glint of light reflecting off the point of the cutter. File until it disappears.

Most bench grinders use a 3/16ths thick wheel to sharpen 3/8th pitch chain, which duplicates the curvature of a 3/16th file. Whether you use the 7/32 file or a barely smaller variety, it won't make any real difference. I have always wondered why we grind with a thinner wheel than we file with, and I think it is because the file uses it's larger curvature to create the cutting angle on the tooth. If you used a 3/16ths file, you would need to file with a downward pressure at roughly 60 degrees to get "the perfect angle": a little bit tricky. The bench grinder is usually set at 60 degrees, and gives a perfect face-angle. You could use a thicker wheel, and exactly duplicate the cut of the file, but it would require a more careful depth setting.

Some fellows like to give the chain a steeper or shallower face angle, according to the type of cutting they are doing. This is part of why so many are dedicated to hand filing.

File size: use whichever you prefer. I always thought the 7/32 was just a little bit large, but the chains cut fine when you are done sharpening with it. It is easier to use than a 3/16th file on that size chain. I suspect that Stihl just likes to sell their specialty files, although I think I would prefer that size.

Never used a 13/64, I don't think they are listed in my Oregon book.