Where are the employees?

[Maintenance supervisor]

Wait a minute! Did someone say that I could get money from the government to buy chainsaws????!!!

 

[WeirWolf]

Well said brother.
My motto is, "cheap, dangerous and uninsured". I always get huge tips because I save my customers money. The large tree crews need to make payments for their brand new pos trucks.

 

[Maintenance supervisor]

I'm too short to work out of a new truck! What are those guys like 11' tall!

 

[WeirWolf]

My 1991 4x4 F250 460ci supercab long bed could be classified as a compact truck these days lol.

 

[Cricket]

Everyone doing manual labor is treated like a sub contractor now, no one works for anyone permanently. Eventually a business will be forced to either pay 400+ a day for a permanent good employee or sub out the work. The 2 man crews are everywhere here, they will do anything they can get their hands on from siding to tree removal and know how to quote 25% less than every legit business. Those covid checks bought a ton of pos trucks and tools for those who could never get above water and now they are operating on their own.

This. I don't think most folks who haven't been there, realize how little it takes to hoist someone above the "desperate" mark, to the point where they can keep going up on their own. Which is nice for them, but hard on folks who (possibly unknowingly) were depending on "desperate" to fill positions. Doesn't mean your job offer isn't a good one - just that a lot of the same folks who would have applied for it, have moved on to doing their own work, or being able to get a car running reliably so they can look farther afield for the first time. Just kind of a different employment world.

 

[Able Feller]

What is see is the “circle of business” being broken.

First, I’m just going to put it out there that there are and always have been two types of people: leaders and followers.

Take a self employed based business 50 years ago. The man worked and grew a business. One of two things happened, he had a child that worked and took over and continued a good business and things carried on. It was a good place to work and workers respected the family.
The other is, he didn’t have a child that took over, so he picked out and grew close to a good young leader and mentored him. He bought the business when the man got older and was respected as well and business carried on.

Now days, due to entitlement, the first can apply but it’s usually a spoiled brat kid that didn’t work or do anything but ride daddy’s coat tail. He grows up being around the business but never earns respect, so he takes over and the business goes to pot because nobody wants to work for him.
The second scenario, today, still goes back to entitlement. The business owner tries to mentor a good leader and the followers all get mad and leave because feel they should have been in charge when in reality they can’t manage week to week.

Right now the problem with the government handouts is it’s not good leaders and business minded people getting grants and starting businesses. Instead it’s the followers and the “entitled” ones starting fly by night businesses in several industries. Yes we all know that they will come and go as they always have, and one or two here and there wasn’t that bad for business.
The problem now is, with the handouts, 20+ people in a small area get into business within a small area. They start doing jobs for dirt cheap and for not much more than their “follower” wages. They have equipment they aren’t having to pay for and don’t understand that they have to maintain, so they don’t charge accordingly as a leader with a business mentality would.

So, end of day, “entitlement” is the problem with finding good help.
People want to start at the top and do little or no work to earn it, many not having the mental capacity or ability to be anything more than a laborer.

 

[K-techcowboy]

Stacy you are the kind of employer most of us "clambers" have been trying to work for most of our careers. Honest work, honest pay. $30 doesn't get responses because of the entitlement mentality in our country today. There are good people out there, they are just harder ato find. I currently work for a co. in Birmingham and am training a very bright young college grad who I call "Mr. Fantastic" ; he impresses me every day, and after 40+ yrs in the trade that says a lot.

I wish I had a chance like that and maybe I will all I can do is keep at the grind contacting local tree services and have faith gods got me going where I belong. I worked very hard for the things I had and they were all taken by my ex wife. Yea I was beaten down and broken but I think now its an opportunity for a fresh start on life. I'm only 32 so I got a minute or so to go lol.

 

[atlashunter]

At some point the free .gov cheese will run out and folks will have to work if they want to eat. That’s how it used to be and it’s just a matter of time until it returns to that.

 

[WeirWolf]

Kids don't want to get into tree work and similiar trades because all the illegals are doing it, and they think there is no pride in it because of that. At least that's how it is in Cali. Last couple years seen more and more of them working up here. One of the reasons why I work by myself now, I hated working with those guys. Never had any meaningful conversation with them whether or not they spoke english.

 

[SliverPicker]

The worker shortage covers all professions and is worldwide.

The Covid “stay at home” checks ended a while ago. That’s not the issue.

Perhaps the 40% increase in deaths among the 19-64 year olds (working age) is part of the problem. Noone seems to know what to attribute the deaths to other than it IS NOT from Covid.

Look it up.

 

[Shaun Bowler]

A good part of the problem is that employers want to hire people who are fully capable of being self employed, and pay them $20 per hour.

Exactly!
Stop hiring illegals with questionable SSN's. There is NO WAY an entry level employee will except $20.00 per hour for a job that is as hard as Tree Work. Those days are long gone. Especially in the Central Valley. Raise you operating costs or you may continue to lose Income.

 

[WeirWolf]

I've had multiple clients say "I pay my Mexicans 'x amount'" or, "don't worry about cleaning up I'll have my Mexicans do that, they charge less."

 

[fishercat]

I personally just got tired of drama, egotistical and/or insecure ********, constantly lied to, worked like a dog , constantly bitched at, and given poorly maintained equipment to work with.

 

[Gabriel1982]

I've had multiple clients say "I pay my Mexicans 'x amount'" or, "don't worry about cleaning up I'll have my Mexicans do that, they charge less."

carefull with this "importing of cheap labour" . before you know it you can't do anything without them ,AND, before you know it they are the MAJORITY in society and your "type" the minority!
Happened in many countries ,societies in history! including USA!

 

[Shaun Bowler]

What do you think the Percentage of AS contributors knowingly hire "Illegals" and pay them "under the table?"

 

[Gabriel1982]

What do you think the Percentage of AS contributors knowingly hire "Illegals" and pay them "under the table?"

Have no ideea! But cheap labour will always be "nice" in any country. And it does help the local economy! The moment those "illegal worker" obtain legal status in that country/society they will become a very important(and usefull) part of that society and economy! There's a joke in "Human resources" circles: "you can't work in HR without humans!" Very deep and "scary" joke. Because in many countries population is growing old. Including China,or Germany! South America is the future of workforce! India not so much!

 

[SweetMK]

I have slightly different thought on the subject.

BACK WHEN,, the time when many larger companies were started, there was 0% of the knowledge available to start a company.
I am talking about before the year 2000, especially before 2008.
The best info on how to start a company was on a couple radio talk shows. that was it.
Now, anyone with a smart phone or a tablet (let alone a computer) can find 100% of the info to start a company.
Back then starting a company was "THE BIG, BAD MONSTER" ,, now, starting a company is no more difficult than getting a credit card.

I started a company in 2000. I and my wife had worked for companies that had educated us in all that we needed to start a company.
Back then, the success rate of startups was about 10%.,, that scared us, but, we started anyways.
We soon found that those companies that failed simply did not try. So, for us, success was easy. We tried.
Today, the FIRST thing people learn is that to succeed, you simply need to try.,
I have no idea why those in the year 2000 felt like they did not need to try.

As far as employees, for my business, I simply automated.
The result was that I ran a PRETTY GOOD sized business,, with zero employees.

I was not in the tree business,,, but, reading this thread,
I feel as though the companies that are "crying" for employees have not tried AT ALL!!

For me, every time I needed something new to be done, I added a machine. THAT is the ONLY answer to today's questions.
Do you want to grow the business?? ADD a MACHINE! Do you want to do new types of tasks?? ADD a MACHINE!!

I am sorry, but, today, I see tree companies running like it is 1890, thinking they are doing something because they bought a $500 saw.
You want to trim 50 foot trees?? buy a $400,000 machine. Sorry, that is how the world is,, now!
(Do not tell me the equipment does not exist,, I have YouTube,, it exists!!)

Back in 1970, I worked on a farm, in Virginia, to prep and plant the 1,000+ acres, we used about a half dozen tractors.
Also there were a half dozen employees. The logistics of keeping that equipment running was a NIGHTMARE.
The landowner spent 100% of his time dealing with the logistics of keeping the equipment running, and the employees sober.
Slowly the employees went away, the owner of the property had two sons, today, the two sons do 100% of the work.
They automated. This ONE tractor preps and plants 1,600 acres (not 1,000) and, it is operated by one of the sons..
ZERO employees needed!

So, if you can not find employees, automate,, or stay making 1890 buggy whips, and complain.

Trust me, if YOU do not automate, and grow into the future, SOMEONE ELSE WILL!!

 

[Able Feller]

I have slightly different thought on the subject.

BACK WHEN,, the time when many larger companies were started, there was 0% of the knowledge available to start a company.
I am talking about before the year 2000, especially before 2008.
The best info on how to start a company was on a couple radio talk shows. that was it.
Now, anyone with a smart phone or a tablet (let alone a computer) can find 100% of the info to start a company.
Back then starting a company was "THE BIG, BAD MONSTER" ,, now, starting a company is no more difficult than getting a credit card.

I started a company in 2000. I and my wife had worked for companies that had educated us in all that we needed to start a company.
Back then, the success rate of startups was about 10%.,, that scared us, but, we started anyways.
We soon found that those companies that failed simply did not try. So, for us, success was easy. We tried.
Today, the FIRST thing people learn is that to succeed, you simply need to try.,
I have no idea why those in the year 2000 felt like they did not need to try.

As far as employees, for my business, I simply automated.
The result was that I ran a PRETTY GOOD sized business,, with zero employees.

I was not in the tree business,,, but, reading this thread,
I feel as though the companies that are "crying" for employees have not tried AT ALL!!

For me, every time I needed something new to be done, I added a machine. THAT is the ONLY answer to today's questions.
Do you want to grow the business?? ADD a MACHINE! Do you want to do new types of tasks?? ADD a MACHINE!!

I am sorry, but, today, I see tree companies running like it is 1890, thinking they are doing something because they bought a $500 saw.
You want to trim 50 foot trees?? buy a $400,000 machine. Sorry, that is how the world is,, now!
(Do not tell me the equipment does not exist,, I have YouTube,, it exists!!)

Back in 1970, I worked on a farm, in Virginia, to prep and plant the 1,000+ acres, we used about a half dozen tractors.
Also there were a half dozen employees. The logistics of keeping that equipment running was a NIGHTMARE.
The landowner spent 100% of his time dealing with the logistics of keeping the equipment running, and the employees sober.
Slowly the employees went away, the owner of the property had two sons, today, the two sons do 100% of the work.
They automated. This ONE tractor preps and plants 1,600 acres (not 1,000) and, it is operated by one of the sons..
ZERO employees needed!

So, if you can not find employees, automate,, or stay making 1890 buggy whips, and complain.

Trust me, if YOU do not automate, and grow into the future, SOMEONE ELSE WILL!!

Thanks for your input, but machines and equipment doesn’t fix tree work or any service company employment.
When you have at minimum a dozen tree companies in a suburban area and you go out and buy a high tech machine like you’re talking about you have more issues. Access being limited or terrain is your biggest disadvantage. More companies are turning to “tight access” equipment rather than massive do-all machines with grapple saws.
Then with greater overhead like this comes an increase in price. Although some do, why would a homeowner care to pay you double to do a job with a fancy and efficient piece of equipment when the next guy can give the same result working manually with everyday equipment.
Those guys you see with big machines are mainly doing large commercial roadside projects and such with some residential work, and not everyone wants to go that route.
Even if you get a machine like this, you still need ground hands. Someone has to lay mats. Someone has to spot. Someone has to rake and cleanup. You still need someone to operate other equipment needed on sight. Still need people able to mobilize equipment with valid drivers licenses. Oh yea, let’s not forget someone still has to manage the business and go out and make bids and bring in more business. So, the owner can’t sit there all day and operate the main machine.
At the end of the day, you get big equipment like this and go up on prices to pay for that equipment. You still have to pay people to operate and qualified and competent operators aren’t cheap so you’re really no further ahead.


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[Harmon]

What do you think the Percentage of AS contributors knowingly hire "Illegals" and pay them "under the table?"

And what percentage of AS contributors hire anyone at all or have anything to do with tree service?

 

[Able Feller]

And what percentage of AS contributors hire anyone at all or have anything to do with tree service?

Felt the heat on that one lol


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