Where are the employees?

[SweetMK]

,,,, why would a homeowner care to pay you double to do a job with a fancy and efficient piece of equipment when the next guy can give the same result working manually with everyday equipment.

In your case, the labor is available, so the work is done by labor, with low cost equipment.
Everyone wins. There is no need to pay double,, where you live.

The OP asked,, what do you do if no help is available,, THEN the price GOES WAY UP!!
No more cheapy $10 an hour workers, with 8 year old saws, and no safety equipment.

Something else has to happen,, you need a machine, with no ground crew,,
They use such a machine near my home, every 7 years to open the power line right-of-ways.
One machine, one driver, he does it all.
BUT, that is not the way it works, where you live,, The country is different,, you gotta roll with the local needs.

 

[Able Feller]

…Something else has to happen,, you need a machine, with no ground crew,,
They use such a machine near my home, every 7 years to open the power line right-of-ways.
One machine, one driver, he does it all.

Thanks for pointing that out.
Realize, you’re speaking about commercial line clearance and ROW work.
That’s simple enough to do with one or two guys.

I specifically stated that it’s not ideal in every day residential tree work where most of the time you’re in a limited working area where you couldn’t use a dozen grapple saws and cranes if you had them.
Also, even if you did have and were able to use that equipment, you still need hands present for all the other tasks that you wouldn’t have on a commercial job like you’re talking about.

I agree, if there was no competition around, then yea, you can pretty much set your price how ever you choose.

And no, help is not readily available where I live. Not that I will approve of anyways.
It’s near impossible to get quality and dependable hands that want to show up every day and work. We pay near double what you’re stating and double + for some. New saws, good quality equipment, insurance, WC, and gear.


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[SweetMK]

I agree, if there was no competition around, then yea, you can pretty much set your price how ever you choose.


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A neighbor had a 14" DBH tree removed, it was in the way of his satellite dish.
He paid $2,500, 2 guys were there 3 hours.
They chipped the brush, they left the firewood size pieces.

Another neighbor told the guy he was nuts for paying that much,,
he said, try to find anyone that will do it for less.

 

[northmanlogging]

my thoughts in general, as I was once involved in hiring/firing for different type of work, and I'm now self employed, but avoiding hiring... for now. This is hiring in general, not just tree work.

1st, people need to get paid better, treated better, and given a chance to learn and grow.
2nd, if it is manual labor, its fecking hard work so compensate them for it.
3rd, they wan't a job that can support them and their family. Not some piece work BS that is only 3 days a week.

Now as for the shortage as a whole, there are multiple reasons, not just Covid and Covid stimulus checks ($1800 doesn't buy a whole lot of tree gear folks) the Unemployment benes ran out 2 months ago, so stop blaming that S please. As for illegal immigrants... I've subcontracted to several crews that from outward appearances many would call illegal, turns out they are all up to par, and making $30-40 an hour, sometimes more, difference is they don't **** around and get the job done. And their employer see's to it they are fed, and paid well.

There are many other factors to consider, 1st being that 1,000,000 people have died (or damned near it) many many more are permanently disabled directly from Covid alone, ***** narsty, the lung damage can be debilitating.

Boomers are FINALLY retiring (something us Gen X folks have been both waiting on and dreading for a long time), this is a significant part of the work force, luckily only a handful of the pricks were any damned good and have passed on all that they know, the rest... well, I hope you greedy ***** enjoy your stroke medication and dialysis machines... (how much of this is a joke? you tell me)

now, figure that the pandemic put all sorts of folks out of work, how many of them figured out that they didn't need 2-3 jobs to make ends meet? so now they only work 1, or on the same vein, maybe one of the parents stays home full time now?

Cash-for-Clunkers... remember that? about now is when all them new cars are finally getting paid off, so it goes with the above, and folks are realizing that a car payment is basically a full time job by itself.

Another side effect of folks staying home for 2 years, is that many have figured out how to cook at home, which is wayyyy cheaper then eating out everyday... something that happens when both parents work.

theres also a dirge of folks with college education getting paid minimum wage, or sometimes less for the career they did go to college for, this is utter *********, and folks know it. Employers want to see a college education for jobs, but they refuse to pay more then minimum wage, its a crock of ****.

In short I think, and can somewhat argue that folks have figured out that they can live on less, but that they should also be fairly compensated for their time, Didn't take a pandemic for me to figure that out, the "recession of 08'" corn holed me pretty good, so we did without car payments and anything excess, then the wife quit her job and we realized we kept more money with her at home then working.

I do think that more and more folks are going the self employment route, and I strongly encourage them too, its mighty clear that big biz and established companies don't give a **** about their employees, so why support them.

 

[Gabriel1982]

my thoughts in general, as I was once involved in hiring/firing for different type of work, and I'm now self employed, but avoiding hiring... for now. This is hiring in general, not just tree work.

1st, people need to get paid better, treated better, and given a chance to learn and grow.
2nd, if it is manual labor, its fecking hard work so compensate them for it.
3rd, they wan't a job that can support them and their family. Not some piece work BS that is only 3 days a week.

Now as for the shortage as a whole, there are multiple reasons, not just Covid and Covid stimulus checks ($1800 doesn't buy a whole lot of tree gear folks) the Unemployment benes ran out 2 months ago, so stop blaming that S please. As for illegal immigrants... I've subcontracted to several crews that from outward appearances many would call illegal, turns out they are all up to par, and making $30-40 an hour, sometimes more, difference is they don't **** around and get the job done. And their employer see's to it they are fed, and paid well.

There are many other factors to consider, 1st being that 1,000,000 people have died (or damned near it) many many more are permanently disabled directly from Covid alone, ***** narsty, the lung damage can be debilitating.

Boomers are FINALLY retiring (something us Gen X folks have been both waiting on and dreading for a long time), this is a significant part of the work force, luckily only a handful of the pricks were any damned good and have passed on all that they know, the rest... well, I hope you greedy kitties enjoy your stroke medication and dialysis machines... (how much of this is a joke? you tell me)

now, figure that the pandemic put all sorts of folks out of work, how many of them figured out that they didn't need 2-3 jobs to make ends meet? so now they only work 1, or on the same vein, maybe one of the parents stays home full time now?

Cash-for-Clunkers... remember that? about now is when all them new cars are finally getting paid off, so it goes with the above, and folks are realizing that a car payment is basically a full time job by itself.

Another side effect of folks staying home for 2 years, is that many have figured out how to cook at home, which is wayyyy cheaper then eating out everyday... something that happens when both parents work.

theres also a dirge of folks with college education getting paid minimum wage, or sometimes less for the career they did go to college for, this is utter bull ****, and folks know it. Employers want to see a college education for jobs, but they refuse to pay more then minimum wage, its a crock of ****.

In short I think, and can somewhat argue that folks have figured out that they can live on less, but that they should also be fairly compensated for their time, Didn't take a pandemic for me to figure that out, the "recession of 08'" corn holed me pretty good, so we did without car payments and anything excess, then the wife quit her job and we realized we kept more money with her at home then working.

I do think that more and more folks are going the self employment route, and I strongly encourage them too, its mighty clear that big biz and established companies don't give a **** about their employees, so why support them.

I'm still laughing... You're funny but so right in all aspects! The "corn holed" part was too much
As for covid19 ,yes ,I can confirm ,my physical fittnes is at 30-40% compared to before when I didn't had covid19...
Lost weight,lost muscle,breath harder ,can't do the same ammount of work as before...
And I'm the "lucky one" ,got covid19 after 3 doses of Pfizer vaccine... If weren't for those ,I don't think I would chat here now...

 

[Shaun Bowler]

Felt the heat on that one lol


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You do whatever you have to for yourself and Family.

 

[Luztree]

A neighbor had a 14" DBH tree removed, it was in the way of his satellite dish.
He paid $2,500, 2 guys were there 3 hours.
They chipped the brush, they left the firewood size pieces.

Another neighbor told the guy he was nuts for paying that much,,
he said, try to find anyone that will do it for less.

That’s the prices tree work should be at.

 

[Joedangelo04]

My 1991 4x4 F250 460ci supercab long bed could be classified as a compact truck these days lol.

I hear that my 2014 f150 isnt 4 by 4 and I still have to stand tippy toe to look in my side boxes. Pita

 

[Joedangelo04]

As to all of your employee problems..try offering profit sharing. Maybe set aside 10% and distribute at end of sucesfull job..?

 

[computeruser]

A neighbor had a 14" DBH tree removed, it was in the way of his satellite dish.
He paid $2,500, 2 guys were there 3 hours.
They chipped the brush, they left the firewood size pieces.

Another neighbor told the guy he was nuts for paying that much,,
he said, try to find anyone that will do it for less.

That’s the prices tree work should be at.

At what point does the business get to cost too much for many consumers to be able to access services? Folks who have a median household income ($67.5k in 2020, per google) are generally not sitting flush with liquid cash. A $2500 tree job may well not be something that they can realistically afford to hire out.

 

[sirbuildalot]

At what point does the business get to cost too much for many consumers to be able to access services? Folks who have a median household income ($67.5k in 2020, per google) are generally not sitting flush with liquid cash. A $2500 tree job may well not be something that they can realistically afford to hire out.

The tree companies aren't going to work cheaper because a given homeowner cant afford it. Equipment costs, fuel costs, insurance, etc. are outrageous for tree work.

 

[ValleyForge]

At what point does the business get to cost too much for many consumers to be able to access services? Folks who have a median household income ($67.5k in 2020, per google) are generally not sitting flush with liquid cash. A $2500 tree job may well not be something that they can realistically afford to hire out.

Then they buy a junk Chinese saw and do it themselves….

 

[sirbuildalot]

They always mention how it "only took x amount of hours"

Never do they consider factoring in that it could only be done that quickly with decades of experience and hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment.

 

[kyle1!]

Then they buy a junk Chinese saw and do it themselves….

I for one bought a MS660....I have been on this site too many years and Chinese saws
were not around at the time

 

[Gabriel1982]

The tree companies aren't going to work cheaper because a given homeowner cant afford it. Equipment costs, fuel costs, insurance, etc. are outrageous for tree work.

If you have to ask how much it cost...

 

[bevis]

At what point does the business get to cost too much for many consumers to be able to access services? Folks who have a median household income ($67.5k in 2020, per google) are generally not sitting flush with liquid cash. A $2500 tree job may well not be something that they can realistically afford to hire out.

And I fall into that category and it's why I own 6 Stihl saws and a splitter

 

[krustysurfer]

We dont, we pay top dollar. Prerequisite: come to work,

 

[krustysurfer]

We dont, we pay top dollar. Prerequisite: come to work, run a chainsaw and climb. Any takers? Northern MN.

I can run saws and fell trees, teach me to climb and maybe its time to relocate to N. MN aloha from Michigan

 

[Campbellcontractlogging]

I agree, and the industry is under payed as a whole. But even offering starting wages north of $30 doesn’t get anything

I make 48$ and hour cutting timber I would love to work in a tree trimming outfit but you don’t get paid by employees ware I live at that rate. Also people are sht dodo these days people arnt interested in real work anymore it’s mostly a problem with or culture and society to coddled bunch of ninies I’m 34 and don’t know anyone my age that dose what I do in a day 2 loads of saw logs 9-10 hours of work then cut firewood it never ends weekend or if I get off early go to the charcoal plant and run the loader cutting up pulp wood with a slasher and bundle.

 

[RandyMarsh]

Are you guys that are paying $40-$50 hr also providing anywhere near 2000 hours per year at that rate? Or are you using them more like a specialty guy, and limiting their hours? In other words, is it somewhat common for climbing/arborist employees to be making 80-100k yr?