Where are the employees?

[SweetMK]

In other words, is it somewhat common for climbing/arborist employees to be making 80-100k yr?

Heck, the UPS driver is making $42 an hour sitting in a truck,, 42+ hours per week.
I hope a guy holding a chainsaw is making more than that!!

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

The 2 man crews are everywhere here, they will do anything they can get their hands on from siding to tree removal and know how to quote 25% less than every legit business. Those covid checks bought a ton of pos trucks and tools for those who could never get above water and now they are operating on their own.

(click to enlarge)

Kids don't want to get into tree work and similiar trades because all the illegals are doing it, and they think there is no pride in it because of that. At least that's how it is in Cali. Last couple years seen more and more of them working up here. One of the reasons why I work by myself now, I hated working with those guys. Never had any meaningful conversation with them whether or not they spoke english.

I've had multiple clients say "I pay my Mexicans 'x amount'" or, "don't worry about cleaning up I'll have my Mexicans do that, they charge less."

carefull with this "importing of cheap labour" . before you know it you can't do anything without them ,AND, before you know it they are the MAJORITY in society and your "type" the minority!
Happened in many countries ,societies in history! including USA!

(click to enlarge)

 

[pioneerguy600]

A good part of the problem is that employers want to hire people who are fully capable of being self employed, and pay them $20 per hour.

Bingo!

 

[pioneerguy600]

I agree, and the industry is under payed as a whole. But even offering starting wages north of $30 doesn’t get anything

I wouldn`t start my truck for $30. an hour working for someone else when i can make double that working self employed, especially in a dirty dangerous outdoor job.

 

[Will the wood chopper]

This is my first thread, but i'm just curious what people have experienced here. Our company is Central Valley Tree and Arborist Services. This company was started in 2001, but we took it over in 2015. My question is,
why is it so hard to find workers?
We've been good to our guys and are trying to get in front of what's going on with the industry, we have helmet walkies, clean trucks, BC1000xl chipper and a few boom trucks. But no one responds to adds, indeed has been a waste of time, word of mouth is useless, it just seems like no one is looking for work. We've gone through our fair share of trash employees (apparently people love their illicit vices) but out of probably 30 people over 5 years, we have 2 good guys. From covid I've heard of multiple companies laying off half their staff. But where do these people disappear too? Is it different in Vancouver Canada then where you are? I'd love to hear responses. Lastly, if you are a climber that got laid off and is need work in my area, let me know.
I'd love to hear peoples experiences.

I am a mechanic by trade and the company I work for can not find help either. I cut firewood for myself and I can not get anyone to help drag brush out of the way without paying $15 an hour cash money. I know that is not a lot of money but it doesn't really take a lot be a brush dragger. They do not even have to drag it but 10 to 20 ft away.

 

[JosephLobdell]

A good part of the problem is that employers want to hire people who are fully capable of being self-employed and pay them $20 per hour.

Greed is a hell of a thing. Ask them what they think they are worth and then meet them somewhere in the middle or even offer more if they have the experience. It's money. At the end of the day if you pay a crew right you don't need more than about 3 people to do the work. Then split off and create more crews that can be working at the same time. When you see a tree company with about 8 workers on a job you just can't sustain that.

 

[JosephLobdell]

I am a mechanic by trade and the company I work for can not find help either. I cut firewood for myself and I can not get anyone to help drag brush out of the way without paying $15 an hour cash money. I know that is not a lot of money but it doesn't really take a lot be a brush dragger. They do not even have to drag it but 10 to 20 ft away.

While I agree somewhat with this it's also a poor mentality to have, "They don't have a hard job."

 

[JosephLobdell]

If the money was obtained legally from a source that was intended to help people get on with a better life, for example, starting a business, than why do you care? If they stink as a tree business, they will not be your competition in a couple years.

My issue is with large established companies criticizing smaller ones. I'll bet your company was small once, too. I have a small tree service. I do small jobs. I do it well - fully insured, professional customer interaction, clean and safe jobsite, etc.

Companies like yours can have all the big, hairy tree removals - I can't do it well, and that's not fair to the customer.

However, from a couple of the comments here I deduce some may drive past my jobsite and conclude I am a hack who took his stimulus money, bought some gear and started cutting trees. You don't know anything about me.

Perhaps the comments were directed at some person the writer had intimate knowledge of. Feel free to set me straight.

Perhaps some of you do not think smaller crews should be doing tree work - then say that, and let the discussion continue.

Smaller crews are the way. Get them the training, equipment they need, and have them meet quotas. Challenge, invest in, love them. They are who will make or break you. Always remember how it all started, and you will never lose your path.

 

[Blue Oaks]

I wouldn`t start my truck for $30. an hour working for someone else when i can make double that working self employed, especially in a dirty dangerous outdoor job.

I wouldn't either. FWIW, I pay my gardener $50/hr cash. He's hard working and reliable.

 

[jordan henson]

This is my first thread, but i'm just curious what people have experienced here. Our company is Central Valley Tree and Arborist Services. This company was started in 2001, but we took it over in 2015. My question is,
why is it so hard to find workers?
We've been good to our guys and are trying to get in front of what's going on with the industry, we have helmet walkies, clean trucks, BC1000xl chipper and a few boom trucks. But no one responds to adds, indeed has been a waste of time, word of mouth is useless, it just seems like no one is looking for work. We've gone through our fair share of trash employees (apparently people love their illicit vices) but out of probably 30 people over 5 years, we have 2 good guys. From covid I've heard of multiple companies laying off half their staff. But where do these people disappear too? Is it different in Vancouver Canada then where you are? I'd love to hear responses. Lastly, if you are a climber that got laid off and is need work in my area, let me know.
I'd love to hear peoples experiences.

I'm in the opposite boat the only work I've been able to find was a solo guy who was so tweaked I had to direct him.. so if anybody in southern Oregon needs a guy I'm your guy!

 

[Drifter2406]

I was having a similar discussion with my part time employee, as a small business, mainly me and up to three people at times to help with the bigger jobs I asked him what his son wanted to do when he left school, his reply was that he will probably do something with computers, his does not understand why he would do a job that is hard work and gets dirty, yes he actually said that and that seems to be the trend with the younger generation here, give it twenty years and I think we will be really struggling for people to do manual jobs.

 

[babaoriley]

A good part of the problem is that employers want to hire people who are fully capable of being self employed, and pay them $20 per hour.

He nailed it right from the start. I’ve just started to learn about tree service and chainsaw. I’m capable of handing a tree top to bottom by myself and a ground guy if I need to rig it. And I look around ppl are hiring arborist/tree guy currently from $17 to $30. I have all the pro gear needed for the job (most of it at least and if I don’t have to hurt the tree then I need a few more things) and 12 freaking chainsaws, you’re telling me I need to work for you for $30 an hour? McDonald’s paying $17 an hour now ffs.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

I've been saying this for years. If we keep pushing kids into college, we're gonna end up with a shortage of good trade workers. This chart indicates the rate at which good trade workers have been siphoned off to the college ranks. Now the trades are paying almost as well as college grads, and since tree work and food service is at the bottom of the job list, well ....

My dad was a hard working painter and true craftsman who lived paycheck to paycheck. If he were here now doing the quality of work he did, he'd be clearing $150k per year, easy.

I was an ehgineer for 25 years, and I actually make better money per hour owning my T&L biz. Point being, is trade workers have options as a result of this siphoning, so maybe we're finding out that the current employee wages in our biz aren't as great as employers think they are. We may cycle back to shortage of college grads before its all said and done.

 

[ShezTreeNThar?]

A good part of the problem is that employers want to hire people who are fully capable of being self employed, and pay them $20 per hour.

Right, exactly! Like now, I’m coming back from an injury, looking for work, (I have plenty of offers for self employment, but have only my saw and rope, granted that can get me a decent living alone, but I can’t afford the insurance for myself right now, and at 47 I am really starting to like how much easier a few pieces of equipment can make life.

 

[James Sawyer]

Well... the applications we been seeing with the new generation and their work ethic on a lot of them are terrible. I have other businesses contacts they're run into the same problem. They don't show up on time, always on their phones. Call in sick a lot. Give them a task once they are finish you got go find them... sitting somewhere on their phone... like babysitting. Lot of them have no clue how to use tools, or apply themselves, think thru problems.
I believe most grow up with helicopter moms, no responsibilities, given everything they want. I think the kids these days don't want to work! Kid can even get job unless they are 18yrs old.
We took God and country out the schools, along with Auto, wood shop, and metal fab. Kids have have a cry room. Kids don't work on car like they use too... have no clue how. Bet most of them couldn't grease the wheels on a trike.
When was last time you saw kid asking to mowing you're lawn. I'm looking around here... I work for top 100 tech company and when us old guys retire????
We've became a consumer, throw away and buy new. With the economy and way things are going next 20 years has me worried what's coming. I work with a lot of trades people, and they are seeing some kids wanting to get into the trades. They are starting to see more this last year then prior.

 

[Jim Colton]

Greed is a hell of a thing. Ask them what they think they are worth and then meet them somewhere in the middle or even offer more if they have the experience. It's money. At the end of the day if you pay a crew right you don't need more than about 3 people to do the work. Then split off and create more crews that can be working at the same time. When you see a tree company with about 8 workers on a job you just can't sustain that.

The guys that took out my Live Oak from next to my house had 2 climbers and a nine-person crew. They had a 15" chipper and did great work. I expected less professionalism than they provided. Pretty sure the whole crew had the same last name, and all spoke fluent Spanish. I doubt any of them made $30 an hour but they should have.

 

[dandan111]

I could write a mile long message about this.
The old fashioned business politics aren’t working anymore. Kids don’t want to work.
Pay a great wage and treat your guys the way you want to be treated. Buy them lunch. Give them a Christmas bonus, 401k and insurance. Maybe most of you do this kind of thing?
Truth is maybe we need the labor from the illegal workers. I know I have a hell of a time getting any kind of contractor to show up.

 

[capetrees]

I wouldn`t start my truck for $30. an hour working for someone else when i can make double that working self employed, especially in a dirty dangerous outdoor job.

Until you talk about $30/hr and benifits, paid vacation, paid holidays and a pension in the end.

Sometimes, that's the route people take and do well.

 

[fields_mj]

I could write a mile long message about this.
The old fashioned business politics aren’t working anymore. Kids don’t want to work.
Pay a great wage and treat your guys the way you want to be treated. Buy them lunch. Give them a Christmas bonus, 401k and insurance. Maybe most of you do this kind of thing?
Truth is maybe we need the labor from the illegal workers. I know I have a hell of a time getting any kind of contractor to show up.

I think the issue with the younger generations is motivation. I can't say that I blame them either. After 35 year of working hard AND smart, I can appreciate the perspective that there's more to life than your job, especially when a company has no loyalty to its employees when times get tough, especially if the employees are not part of the senior management. I still find value in a hard day's work, but doing it for a company that demands it 60+ hours per week for a wage that you still can't afford to buy a home on is for the birds.