Where has all the business gone?

[GlenWimpy]

I climb naked!:deadhorse:

 

[Tree Pig]

Hmm--You haven't been keeping up with this thread, right? A few guys posted about wearing little, if any, PPE and how that was their right. Forget the ethnic angle. I was simply illustrating that clients do notice how we conduct our business at their job sites.

I have been keeping up with it. I see were your going with what your saying I just do not give as much creedance to the idea as you do. Most homeowners have no idea what appropriate PPE is for the tree industry. This FACT is backed up by your own email. "I'm a little more comfortable going with them because I know they will use harnesses and ropes for their protection.". As opposed to what? Standing on a ladder?Free climbing? No mention of Head gear, hearing protection or chaps. Though I dont disagree totally with your message I dont think your backing up your own case. I do think that Fishercat makes a better case in saying that by people watching how safe they work it brings them business and that the homeowner has no idea if he should be wearing chaps or a hard hat and a very very large amount of new work in this business is from word of mouth or repeat customers. I myself wear chaps most the time on the ground only and do wear head gear most of the time but I will admit as has been seen in a prior post I will work without one at times also. I do on the other hand ensure anyone else working for me wears all appropriate PPE.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I have been keeping up with it. I see were your going with what your saying I just do not give as much creedance to the idea as you do. Most homeowners have no idea what appropriate PPE is for the tree industry. This FACT is backed up by your own email. "I'm a little more comfortable going with them because I know they will use harnesses and ropes for their protection.". As opposed to what? Standing on a ladder?Free climbing? No mention of Head gear, hearing protection or chaps. Though I dont disagree totally with your message I dont think your backing up your own case. I do think that Fishercat makes a better case in saying that by people watching how safe they work it brings them business and that the homeowner has no idea if he should be wearing chaps or a hard hat and a very very large amount of new work in this business is from word of mouth or repeat customers. I myself wear chaps most the time on the ground only and do wear head gear most of the time but I will admit as has been seen in a prior post I will work without one at times also. I do on the other hand ensure anyone else working for me wears all appropriate PPE.

This thread has gone on and on and---- In going back through it I see that my posts were attributed to other posters and their posts were attributed to me in the quotes section. Maybe somebody purposely did that, maybe the server is acting up. Either way, I'm making this my last post in this thread, that I started long ago. All I was trying to get across in my last few posts was that clients do take notice of those who operate safely and those who take extra measures to ensure that they stay safe. If the public is made aware of proper PPE for tree workers, something I strongly hope happens in the near future, you can bet that those who "macho it out" in shorts, tennis shoes and gimme caps will get fewer and fewer gigs, as it should be.

Accidents happen. If you could avoid them at all times and/or plan out when they would occur, there wouldn't be any accidents, would there?

 

[GlenWimpy]

This thread has gone on and on and---- In going back through it I see that my posts were attributed to other posters and their posts were attributed to me in the quotes section. Maybe somebody purposely did that, maybe the server is acting up. Either way, I'm making this my last post in this thread, that I started long ago. All I was trying to get across in my last few posts was that clients do take notice of those who operate safely and those who take extra measures to ensure that they stay safe. If the public is made aware of proper PPE for tree workers, something I strongly hope happens in the near future, you can bet that those who "macho it out" in shorts, tennis shoes and gimme caps will get fewer and fewer gigs, as it should be.

Accidents happen. If you could avoid them at all times and/or plan out when they would occur, there wouldn't be any accidents, would there?

Due to this thread , I will climb only in a complete 17 century armor knight suit! with Sword!

 

[treevet]

treevet- Thanks for point out to me this oversight. You are correct that anyone who states they are a CA must include their number, (AND NAME) including the logo. This I have corrected. May I encourage you to do the same.

You're welcome BCMA. Was just pointing out for posterity that you may not operate in the pristine realm you think you do.

I do not plan to conform with the logo issue as I like to be a little of the rebel. I do not make any secret of who I am and where I am from and their rent a cops will pursue me as they have in the past and demand adherence to their rules.

And....you "have corrected" this situation ....how?

 

[arborist]

I'm having the best year ever since 2001 when i began my own tree service.
i can just keep up with one ground man and myself.still quite small,but at times wishing i actually had a climber i could call with his own ground man.
I'm just starting to hit this level and it's feeling nice!
i know i couldn't work another climber 40 hrs a week tho yet,so im not sure just how to go about this step.if work keeps coming in like this,it's going to have to be on the top of my list to figure out tho lol.

 

[ropensaddle]

I'm having the best year ever since 2001 when i began my own tree service.
i can just keep up with one ground man and myself.still quite small,but at times wishing i actually had a climber i could call with his own ground man.
I'm just starting to hit this level and it's feeling nice!
i know i couldn't work another climber 40 hrs a week tho yet,so im not sure just how to go about this step.if work keeps coming in like this,it's going to have to be on the top of my list to figure out tho lol.

Just use sub check insurance and references and or get to know them.

 

[arborist]

Just use sub check insurance and references and or get to know them.

right.this part i figured.however what holds me back is the fact knowing i cannot use him full time yet.not sure how much luck id have finding a climber i could count on being on call upon request know what i mean?
I know as a climber before going on my own,i looked for full time work.
just not sure id be able to find a skillful seasoned climber that i could count on being able to handle any tree at any time.
i guess i would schedule work id have him do on say mon-wed or something but man,you know how things can change in a hurry.hmmm
perhaps it wouldn't be hard to find someone on call.but i fear a "good" "reliable" climber is working already.
though this thread suggests their may be plenty out there willing to work anytime and are available.makes me think i should have the secretary start looking into this for me.
holy cow,i better get to bed lol!
lots of time to finish up two jobs going,but won't be enough to start a new one anyway,so not worried about starting to early.tho that changes often too lol.better hit the hay.

 

[fishercat]

it all depends where you are.

i guess you are hiding from someone.

i climb as a sub all the time.

like Rope says verify insurance with their agent and see if they have any references.

 

[ropensaddle]

right.this part i figured.however what holds me back is the fact knowing i cannot use him full time yet.not sure how much luck id have finding a climber i could count on being on call upon request know what i mean?
I know as a climber before going on my own,i looked for full time work.
just not sure id be able to find a skillful seasoned climber that i could count on being able to handle any tree at any time.
i guess i would schedule work id have him do on say mon-wed or something but man,you know how things can change in a hurry.hmmm
perhaps it wouldn't be hard to find someone on call.but i fear a "good" "reliable" climber is working already.
though this thread suggests their may be plenty out there willing to work anytime and are available.makes me think i should have the secretary start looking into this for me.
holy cow,i better get to bed lol!
lots of time to finish up two jobs going,but won't be enough to start a new one anyway,so not worried about starting to early.tho that changes often too lol.better hit the hay.

Like fisher said depends where your at and one solution is have several subs that are willing to help when needed. It is unrealistic to expect them to leave their own gig to take care of you but if you have a line up then you can shuffle them in to position. I stress check them well, your reputation depends on their actions. I don't get enough to stay busy yet but if a big storm comes I have several out of town members here I would call to help. It is a matter of harnessing your market share. Sure you have to pay them most if not all your profit but after they have went back home you are the business that provided help when they needed it most. I missed my first opportunity in the hurricanes, I won't miss the next. I found in those situations having the ability to bring in the troops frees you up to bid more work as if your in the book you are the one being called. Problem is; they won't wait long it has to be done and fast. Whatever you chose to do make sure to check with customer to make sure work is to their satisfaction and if not shed the sub and fix the customer at all costs.

 

[treevet]

I think it is often overlooked that a great living can be provided by just staying as a climber/owner and a groundman. I have been doing it for 40 years. It just takes an above average work ethic, and a high level of operation. This includes having as much equipment as they (bigger ops.) do and being able to answer the questions/handle any job they can.

If you get over loaded for whatever reason.....the comp. sucks, little competition around, a storm hits, you are exceptionally good at what you do, you have movie star looks, you become popular in social circles, you have exceptional knowledge, etc., etc,....whatever......

just significantly raise your prices until you are not overloaded. Supply and demand. I am quite sure a 2 man op. can make more money than a much larger op. considering bottom line. You gotta bust a$$ tho and know as much as the big boys do,

Lot being said on this thread, with the same predictable posters condescending to others in regards to PPE. I think it is much more important that the level of knowledge about trees be brought up to look professional.
Conflicting opinions in regards to treatments of trees and/or removals, nec. or not.....imo....is what makes our profession an embarassment.

Shigo used to say, if they gotta have a national climbing championship, why cannot they have a national tree knowledge championship?

 

[outofmytree]

Lot being said on this thread, with the same predictable posters condescending to others in regards to PPE.

Dunno if I need to write better or you need to read better but I can assure you there was no intent to demean or belittle anyone in what I said. I absolutely believe in full PPE for all team members. I once sent my wife home for not wearing her boots. Needless to say I cooked for myself that week.

Shigo used to say, if they gotta have a national climbing championship, why cannot they have a national tree knowledge championship?

I suspect that would produce a smaller list of competitors TV. I would still enter if only to show my peers that I have actually read one book. Not a big book I will admit, but I did read one. Once. Honest.

 

[outofmytree]

I think it is often overlooked that a great living can be provided by just staying as a climber/owner and a groundman. I have been doing it for 40 years. It just takes an above average work ethic, and a high level of operation. This includes having as much equipment as they (bigger ops.) do and being able to answer the questions/handle any job they can.

If you get over loaded for whatever reason.....the comp. sucks, little competition around, a storm hits, you are exceptionally good at what you do, you have movie star looks, you become popular in social circles, you have exceptional knowledge, etc., etc,....whatever......

just significantly raise your prices until you are not overloaded. Supply and demand. I am quite sure a 2 man op. can make more money than a much larger op. considering bottom line. You gotta bust a$$ tho and know as much as the big boys do,

I absolutely agree. It has cost me about $120k extra turnover a year to retire my wife as groundie and employ two guys when all expenses are factored in. Finding the right balance of guys on the road and work you do yourself is an art form in itself. I am clearly more Picasso than Da Vinci at the moment.