Where's WYK been, and what trouble is he making?

[northmanlogging]

Yup

I still like to tell disparaging stories of myself, but some younger folks seem to think I'm trying to one up on em, when really it's more of I'm such an ass check this out kinda deal yuk yuk


I will continue to post my vids good bad and ugly, in tha vsin hope someone learns something from my mistakes at the very least

 

[madhatte]

They suffer from the same thing anyone else does who is isolated. They have their own methods that suit their own needs.

Solid point 100%. If I only listened to fire nerds, who ultimately are my paperwork certifiers, I wouldn't know the first thing about cutting. It's talking to folks from other disciplines and other places that broaden my knowledge. I wouldn't know about the Swedish Stump Dance, or the dreaded "Tripple hinge", or any of the other weird tricks that work in specific circumstances, and instead would throw a Humboldt under everything every time and split the difference with offset hinges and Sizwells or whatever, because that's the common knowledge hereabouts. Sure, it works almost all of the time, but a bigger bag of tricks never hurt anybody.

Yup

I still like to tell disparaging stories of myself, but some younger folks seem to think I'm trying to one up on em, when really it's more of I'm such an ass check this out kinda deal yuk yuk

I will continue to post my vids good bad and ugly, in tha vsin hope someone learns something from my mistakes at the very least

I straight up dig yer good/bad/ugly vids, because even if I don't always learn something (I almost always do), I still get that sense of "this could be me" which makes it fun to watch.

 

[wyk]

I have a leaning horsechestnut I need to remove. It's gonna destroy a wall, or either vault it trying, and end up on a road and mebbe kill someone. Across the road is a phone line I want to miss, so I need to swing it slightly to the left. I will have to stand ON the wall when I cut it, too. Horsechestnuts are kinda like red alder. Only much less fiber. I was considering using a sizwheel, but I don't think the fibers are strong enough for it to work. DaveK suggested a triple hinge. I might try that. Never done it before, tho. I haven't ever seen the stump dance done in front of me, I may try and find it on youtube. But when I have a leaner that can land where it leans, I just leave holding wood in the back instead of near the hinge - whether a T cut or bore it. We also have an enormous oak, mebbe 8 feet dbh or more that is leaning towards a field off of a low stone wall. I am hoping the entire thing goes at once, otherwise, that thing might kill me. But, as usual, I have a feeling a storm is gonna push it half way over and I'll need to clean it up so a tractor can work the field. Half of my cutting life is clearing fields for tractors or live stock. Mainly blow downs. I try not to cut anything down I don't have to since the estate is so beautiful. I consider myself a simple custodian. I also always have it in my mind that the last guy that had my position died under a tree ;(


Ah, here we go...

 

[northmanlogging]

Siswheel is my go to for turning trees, but if ya need more fiber, I'll bore into it like the triple hinge... works good on cotton weeds/popular.


Swedish stump dance=GOL, or bore cutting the back for no damn reason.

 

[madhatte]

I also always have it in my mind that the last guy that had my position died under a tree ;(

Nothing like a bit of perspective to keep you humble!

 

[wyk]

You guys will love this: 18" bar on a ported 576 in beech. Yes, beech can be hard, and maybe even a bit wet, but I run a 24" bar on a non ported 044 in trees twice this size easily, including bore cutting. AT 1:50 or so, you see him draw the cut around the rear hinge/post, and then after finishing the back cut he cuts the post an at angle(which makes it easier to match the cuts). The problem with matching it at an angle is when the kerf opens up, it gets smaller before it gets bigger, potentially grabbing your bar. I have seen this in person where the trees grabs some dudes saw and then throws it as the tree goes over. I never cut the post at an angle. I did it once during certification to appease them, and that's all I needed to know it's not a good method. But, more importantly I never use an 18" bar on a ported 75cc saw in that sized wood. I would have done a much gentler bore cut, introducing the bar perpendicular to the face cut as I am making the back cut and just sliding it behind the face cut's hinge in an arc instead of forcing it into the beech straight in, and then simply cut from front to back to prevent the barber chair. I would have had that tree on the ground in 1/4 the time or less. He has to cut the tree the way he does because of the short bar. A short bar limits your choices, and increases production time. 3 minutes for this one tree.



VS kinda like here - only I would have cut the 'T' front to back VS back to front. Go to 8:20 - I see AS still doesn't allow you to quote YT vids at a specific time.

 

[bitzer]

That chain in that beech didn't look too sharp. Anything under 30" I've got on the ground in under a minute unless it needs something special. What's that carpenter square looking thing on his belt?

That's pretty much how I cut hard leaners in the second video. Although I agree that I wouldn't chase the middle strip back to front. In hardwood that pulls way too much valuable wood out. I work that middle strip from the sides front to back usually ending up with a post at the back that either gets cut in one motion or the tree takes off with a little stump wood. I have not out right bore cut a tree in years. Just doesn't need to happen.

 

[wyk]

I can't speak for how sharp it is, but leaning anything can be hard, and beech doesn't start out soft. I cut a nootka/yellow cedar on a mountaintop in Ireland that had seen nothing but wind it's whole life, and it woulda made construction wood.

 

[madhatte]

What's that carpenter square looking thing on his belt?

Tree caliper. Evidently they haven't heard of Spencer tapes over there.

 

[wyk]

He may be doing some sort of other thing foresteryish with that thing. Spencer tapes are common here. Well, I say that, but most of the ones I've seen are Stihl or Husqvarna branded. Dunno if spencer make theirs. Lengths here for most hardwoods headed to the mill are 16, 13, or 8 foot lengths. Softwoods about the same except they will take up to 24 or so for power and phone poles. I had an offer on logging some of our property for poles, but they offered a price per tonne that made me laugh. So those trees will just grow and grow. I do need to cull the area, tho. I might not even drag the wood out, tho.

 

[rwoods]

I have reindeer to thank for my only ported saw, an MS361 - my single qualification for posting here.

The recent posts and videos prompted me to post, though a mere amateur, to say that the short bar bore cutting seems to be premised upon perceived safety over production. I used the term "perceived" because it appears from watching many videos that the extra time spend at the stump by routinely bore cutting has no correlation to safety until you cut the trigger. Of course, that is not necessarily true. Personally, I think time spent at the stump is directly proportionate to risk of injury.* Let alone, diminished production. Of course, using a trigger may diminish the time spent next to a tree in motion. But to me the risk of throwing a saw upon release or an uncontrolled fall due to a too thin hinge are more bothersome than the potential for extra time near a moving stem. I don't know much and though there is a time and place for boring cutting, I don't believe it should be the usual falling method in my neck of the woods.

This past Saturday, I had to choose between a bore cut or something else to fall a decent size red oak that grew in a sweeping sun-seeking arch. I chose a method close to the BC method shown in the posted video.** You can see from my stump that even measured by amateur standards I am not the most precise cutter. The cut at the stump was three feet or so. The stress of the lean split the stump but left the stem and my head intact. Until you guys tell me otherwise, if I had to do it again, other than as noted below, the only thing I would change for sure would be the chain on my saw as I didn't have the cutting speed I wanted. I was using .404 semi-chisel. Not to worry, I wasn't using the MS361.



Ron

* One of my favorite videos is of Gologit where he sizes up the tree and then walks over and just cuts it down. No stump dancing. No repeated cut and look.

** Due to my inexperience I varied from the BC approach and alternated thinning each side before taking out the middle. If I did it again, I would thin one side at a time as shown in the BC video.

 

[madhatte]

One of my favorite videos is of Gologit where he sizes up the tree and then walks over and just cuts it down. No stump dancing. No repeated cut and look.

Dude has put his time in. That kind of muscle memory doesn't come easy.

 

[northmanlogging]

So... I mean short bats and dancing is all well and good...

But what gets me, is the hand flapping wave bit while aiming, I see this all sorts of times... dudes take a look, wave the hand, pause spit some snooze, goose throttle repeat?

Just get behind the ****ing thing and look fer ****s sake, it's not magic no nead to wave a wand at it

 

[madhatte]

Yeah exactly. One of my former crew members texted me just tonight thanking me for teaching about reading binds while bucking. He's in a DNR chainsaw class this week and apparently they to the jazz hands routine, too, which is weird.

 

[wyk]

The BC(FS) video appears to be made to avoid bore cutting as much as possible. But, I think it nearly killed that dude in the video. He shoulda went front to back instead. The T cut requires you cut very fast, keeping the hinge intact, if you go back to front. I think Jack has a vid of a leaning doug fir using a T cut method where he massages it towards the back of the trunk. It's a huge fir that, when ti goes, only loses a bit of back strap and no heart wood at all. An amazing production faller.

BTW, I have several trees that are leaning due to storm damage. One was a 3-4' DBH Larch. I am not a production faller, and it wasn't in a dangerous area people walk or cattle go to. So I left it until it just decided to fall by itself.

 

[bitzer]

I have reindeer to thank for my only ported saw, an MS361 - my single qualification for posting here.

The recent posts and videos prompted me to post, though a mere amateur, to say that the short bar bore cutting seems to be premised upon perceived safety over production. I used the term "perceived" because it appears from watching many videos that the extra time spend at the stump by routinely bore cutting has no correlation to safety until you cut the trigger. Of course, that is not necessarily true. Personally, I think time spent at the stump is directly proportionate to risk of injury.* Let alone, diminished production. Of course, using a trigger may diminish the time spent next to a tree in motion. But to me the risk of throwing a saw upon release or an uncontrolled fall due to a too thin hinge are more bothersome than the potential for extra time near a moving stem. I don't know much and though there is a time and place for boring cutting, I don't believe it should be the usual falling method in my neck of the woods.

This past Saturday, I had to choose between a bore cut or something else to fall a decent size red oak that grew in a sweeping sun-seeking arch. I chose a method close to the BC method shown in the posted video.** You can see from my stump that even measured by amateur standards I am not the most precise cutter. The cut at the stump was three feet or so. The stress of the lean split the stump but left the stem and my head intact. Until you guys tell me otherwise, if I had to do it again, other than as noted below, the only thing I would change for sure would be the chain on my saw as I didn't have the cutting speed I wanted. I was using .404 semi-chisel. Not to worry, I wasn't using the MS361.

View attachment 717313

Ron

* One of my favorite videos is of Gologit where he sizes up the tree and then walks over and just cuts it down. No stump dancing. No repeated cut and look.

** Due to my inexperience I varied from the BC approach and alternated thinning each side before taking out the middle. If I did it again, I would thin one side at a time as shown in the BC video.

Ron you know a lot more then you know. Go deeper on the face next time and gut the heart from the face side. Put a snipe in opposite your face. That will all relieve pressure on a high pressure stem. Of course you need to be careful when playing too deep and pinching your saw. You need to really feel what it's doing . Looked like a nice oak.

 

[bitzer]

Tree caliper. Evidently they haven't heard of Spencer tapes over there.

That woods is pretty open. Not often I'd be able to have something that big hanging off me without it tangling up all the time.

 

[wyk]

Yeah exactly. One of my former crew members texted me just tonight thanking me for teaching about reading binds while bucking. He's in a DNR chainsaw class this week and apparently they to the jazz hands routine, too, which is weird.

The estate owner got a good talking to last summer. A huge oak fell over in the wind. I wasn't on the estate, so how do they go about it? They started cutting the big branches on the bottom - because easy to reach. By the time I arrived, the tree was perfectly balanced to fall on it's side or forwards and kill them while they were oblivious.

 

[rwoods]

Ron you know a lot more then you know. Go deeper on the face next time and gut the heart from the face side. Put a snipe in opposite your face. That will all relieve pressure on a high pressure stem. Of course you need to be careful when playing too deep and pinching your saw. You need to really feel what it's doing . Looked like a nice oak.

I am trying to learn something so don't take this as a challenge. I intentionally cut a shallow face believing that a deep face would increase the tendency to barber chair. What am I missing? Also what do you mean - "Put a snipe in opposite your face." Thanks.

"Looked like a nice oak." Guilty, I turned another log or two into firewood though I am not sure how well bowed wood grades. The top was dying and the fork exploded in the area of the yellow saw. The diameter there was down to about a foot and 15" or so on the other stem. I bucked it in my best guesstimate of 1500# lengths given the small loader they use.

My stump is pretty ugly from any angle.

Ron

 

[bitzer]

Ron this ash was from today. It was probably around 30" on the stump. Leaned like a dam rainbow with a heavy top. See how I left a post of hinge on either side and gutted the heart from the face? Also i used a conventional face and you can see the snipe(like a mini humboldt) on the stump. The snipe is just a piece you take out opposite the face to relieve pressure(keeps stem moving if it does stall a little) or on a Humboldt you can use it on the face to get the butt down. On a hard leaning stem you want to remove as much compression wood as possible. Your oak stump split because of the enormous pressure put on it. If you had a face in around as deep as where it split and gutted it it likely wouldn't have split. If you can't get it that deep, make sure you get as much of the wood directly behind the face cut before you release the tension wood