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I've had this discussion last year with several members and the general consensus is ash is more suseptible to splitting than some other species especially when frozen.
You mean you got two 20' rippers off the butt. Yeah that sucks. Can you still sell it or you saw your own? They can sell quarter sawn or slabs of cedar.Price goes down from half to quarter to slabs.View attachment 718007 Now this one ticked me off, I bored it and bored the heart but it still split, may have had more to do with the crotch at the top of the tree. This pic is after taking 20' of butt log off.
I've had this discussion last year with several members and the general consensus is ash is more suseptible to splitting than some other species especially when frozen.
... How many you guys barber chaired?
Haven't read the BC stuff for 12-13 years. I know it through and through and all the loopholes except all the legislation crap. BC forest safety council (BCFSC)Okay, my head was hurting before but staring at some of Mr. Dent’s Dutchman illustrations has it spinning. Nonetheless Mr. Dent says to use a deeper face with a heavy forward lean even though it increases the tension and thus the risk of a barber chair. Though he doesn’t say which is best - side boring vs “side notching” (appears to be the same as a Coos), he does say that face boring is the least desirable due to increased chances of pinching your bar and barber chairing. He says that the cause of barberchairs is the back fibers as severed start to “fall” while the forward fibers though under increasingly more pressure are not falling thus a split develops between the moving and the non-moving fibers. He doesn’t relate the split to compression. This is actually the process I thought was occurring but to cut a deeper face that actually increases the tension and the risk of barber chairing seems counterintuitive and it appears contrary to the BC materials. But I think it all brings us back to bitzer’s time analysis, the quicker you cut the less likely the chance of a barberchair and the less you have to cut the quicker you can cut. If you want to take your time then I guess you just need to go side boring and cut the tension wood front to back. Interesting side note. - Dent doesn’t describe the use of a trigger when side boring.
In all three methods, Dent recommends nipping the corners of the hinge.
Most all of my reasoning expressed here is based just on book knowledge. Your real world experience is welcome.
Ron
"D. Dents book."
(Srry I got side traked above) ^^
Did he actually say a deeper U/C increases B/Chairs and 'pressure' (I know it does as do you) or is that you saying it? Why I asked was...
...
The funny thing about his and a few other european folks I'm aware of are running west coast style saws, long bars full-3/4 wrap bars, yet I keep having folks on my you tube vids tell me that its just not done in europe and the east coast, that its silly, overcompensation, rediculous etc etc etc, a real man could do that with a 42cc saw and a 7" bar blah blah blah
Meanwhile... more and more folks are using west coast set ups every year so?
Are you referring to the infoflips being dfferent as well?
http://www.bcforestsafe.org/training/faller_certification/resources.html
Thank you, Ok at least I know where you are at now. This is good stuff. I am open mindedI used to use a shallow face cut on the hard leaners, the problem is getting that wood behind the hinge cut. Because now with a shallow face removed you've got all that wood sitting down tight just behind. You've allowed time for the tree to lean ahead more. So many times had I pinched a bar in the past trying to bore trees that I'm describing. Some you just can't get them cut close enough to the hinge without then sitting down. And on some white oak and especially hickory anything more then 1/2" of hinge seems like too much. I will have to dig up some pictures of what I'm talking about.
By 1/2" of hinge seems too much I do mean barber chair. I've seen hickories barber chair with less then 1/2" of full hinge wood left . By full hinge i mean nothing taken out of it, a 1/2" strip of wood left from one corner of the face to the other. It's astounding to see. It really is. You say out loud, you've got to be ******* kidding me there was almost no wood left to cut, but there it is blown wide open and now you have to deal with cutting it down because hickory will almost never break off when they chair.Thank you, Ok at least I know where you are at now. This is good stuff. I am open minded
When you say... "over 1/2" seems like too much" You must mean fiber pull?
I have never cut either species. I am at 99.9% you don't mean b chair?
Maple and cottonwood are the biggest hardwoods i have cut.
It's rare that I ever cut hardwood for salvage. When I did It was just part of a big picture so it is salvage only,as it was property development. No bean counters. They are just happy to have you as long as you can make stumps and make stumps I do.
If I start a job and hoe operators have pulled out smaller trees ahead of me and layed them out in my path then I deal with it....all of it, The shaken dirt and rocks all over. The random lay out, the blisters on 'me' fingers...dam it! . I go against the lean if that's what it takes I will set triggers using a back lean drop snap. If I need to do a 10 tree push, I will.
We are in two different worlds.
"Nessessity is the Mother of invention"
This is why we know different things.
You were speaking of tree weight compressing with holding wood. (Sitting down)
I think it must have a lot to do with the water content and fibers of certain hardwoods. Some of the oak runs 55 to 65 lb range per sq ft going on memory . Cedar is at 27-30lb.
Water is about 70 lb.
This one is your world, not mine.
What do you need pictures of? Ash is one of the top three chair prone trees that I deal with. That said if the crotch hits just right on many hardwoods you can split them all the way to butt . If your ash above didn't split ground up then it split back the other way. Also internal cracks can cause them to bust wide open. It looks like you had more then one crack in that tree before you got to it.I need pictures to follow some of this