Where's WYK been, and what trouble is he making?

[sawfun]

So Paul Manafort used to work for Viktor Yanukovych, Putin's puppet in Ukraine previously before the orange revolution cast him out. The whole Republicans supporting Putin starts to make sense... Well, it doesn't make sense, you can just understand it now. All the harassment of the Ukraine by Trump also makes more sense now. We had traitors in the White House owned by Russian interests from day one.

It sure seemed treacherous at the time. Being bought by corporate interests is one thing, bad enough, but by a seriously potential enemy government is quite another.

 

[BrettS]

Seems people have forgotten about the corruption of an H Biden and a Ukrainian power company, I read the clintons have also been sniffing around the Ukraine as well.

 

[northmanlogging]

Seems people have forgotten about the corruption of an H Biden and a Ukrainian power company, I read the clintons have also been sniffing around the Ukraine as well.

Dunedin huh? is that short hand for moscow? No ones forgetting, as you CHUDs won't let it go, Seams everytime there is a major **** up by a certain party, its always Hillary's or Bill's fault, despite some mysterious piece of missing evidence that would seal the deal for sure this time being completely missing and no one having ever seen its whereabouts since XX unknown aid was seen with it.

These stories are so easy its almost like they write themselves
Kinda like a really ****** spy vs spy episode, but without a believable plot. And huge gaps in the character development.

 

[BrettS]

Dunedin huh? is that short hand for moscow? No ones forgetting, as you CHUDs won't let it go, Seams everytime there is a major **** up by a certain party, its always Hillary's or Bill's fault, despite some mysterious piece of missing evidence that would seal the deal for sure this time being completely missing and no one having ever seen its whereabouts since XX unknown aid was seen with it.

These stories are so easy its almost like they write themselves
Kinda like a really ****** spy vs spy episode, but without a believable plot. And huge gaps in the character development.

Geez son, why don't you lay it on thick eh? lol
Calling me all the names under the sun doesn't bother me, I don't care that you are triggered.

 

[wyk]

Seems people have forgotten about the corruption of an H Biden and a Ukrainian power company, I read the clintons have also been sniffing around the Ukraine as well.

Seems that people have forgotten that Trump met with Putin in private, off the record.
I also think most do not understand that Manafort was directly working for Putin.

That board in the Ukraine was definitely corrupt at the time. And it's not unlikely Biden's son benefitted. I've no doubt a lot of corruption was taking place. It's big business, after all.

But having a son that was a member of a company in the Ukraine is quite a bit different than having a president that literally cow tows to Moscow. One is corruption, the other treason. Well, it was also corruption and treasonous when Trump extorted and blackmailed the Ukrainian president by withholding the aid package approved by congress. He not only did this to try to extort information from the Ukraine, but also to please Putin.

Do we want corrupt politicians in power? No. Few people on either side actually were comfortable with the corruption of the Clintons. I mean, Hillary herself is just as responsible for Trump becoming president as Putin. We would prefer better. But we definitely do not want people beholden to Putin in power. Well, many of us don't anyways.

 

[Cricket]

I commend them. Zelensky has gained a lot of respect on the world stage for his actions.

I get Hungary’s catching a lot of refugees. I understand how reactionary nationalism can be bred by xenophobia and ethnocentrism. I’m still incredulous as to how all of this is still, somehow, going on. We were all told 20 or 25 years ago we were going to enter the information era that would solve the world’s problems and we had learned our lessons from history. There had to be an inflection point somewhere. I remember being young and optimistic about the world back then. Maybe it was September 2001. Maybe it was 2003. Maybe it was earlier. I don’t know, but somewhere something went off the rails and now we find ourselves here.

I find myself listening more and more to John Prine these days. I’m needing something to calm me down and make me think I’m sane.

As an aside, Paradise brought up some memories today. Not directly related to the ongoing, pointless conflict in Ukraine but still takes me back to my anti-MTR days when I spent some time in Frankfort campaigning for Ernie Fletcher to do something about strip mining.

Anyway, back to our regular programming.

"We were all told 20 or 25 years ago we were going to enter the information era that would solve the world’s problems and we had learned our lessons from history."

To be fair, a large percentage of the folks causing the grief are old enough that their opinions on such things were firmly formed long before that (I'm 66, and some folks I know from my high school graduating class are terrifying in their absolute dedication to not learning a thing they didn't know when they got out of high school.)

 

[wyk]

People don't want to think too much. I don't blame them. It's difficult. What's more is people don't like to be challenged. Well, most don't.

We've a two party system in the US. It literally forces people to choose a side, makes us more black and white, wrong or right. Families are torn apart by simple political ideals that often do not make much sense, or may not actually exist outside of a philosophical political argument. And most of us are aware that the answers and the questions are rarely black and white. I don't know how we reconcile with this. I mean, if you look at all the checks and balances in the system you begin to realize they also act like road blocks. While few of us will benefit from an unchallenged congress that can make laws whimsically, it also means very popular and dividing political ideologies will become intractable. Thus - we fight.

And we're so used to fighting, we not only fight with each other, but with our own family. I do not know any other country where this is acceptable behaviour. I mean, Europeans are stunned when I explain the custom of no politics at a thanksgiving dinner. And when I tell them many are OK with a president in bed with Putin so long as he doesn't make any laws restricting guns or abortion or increasing taxes or decreasing corruption. Shocking to them. They are so used to being more rational and mature. I do not blame them. Our system and our black and white nature prevents maturity. How can we grow if we stop learning after high school?

Of course, I give Europeans the nod here, but the right wing is starting to rear it's head again here as well. Well, not so much in Ireland, but the more eastern countries whose immigrant burdens have increased. Again, hard to blame them, easy to criticise them.

 

[sawfun]

America is still a young and still somewhat immature (adolescent) country compared with Europe. There are goods and bads to this, and people are people. That said, a culture that has been around longer is thought, or at least, hoped to have gained wisdom, if just though time.

 

[BrettS]

Seems that people have forgotten that Trump met with Putin in private, off the record.

Seems people have forgotten Trump also met Kim jong un, does that make him as bad as Kim?. Will biden meet with him?, will need his hand held by his wife and he can't forget his depends.

 

[northmanlogging]

Seems people have forgotten Trump also met Kim jong un, does that make him as bad as Kim?. Will biden meet with him?, will need his hand held by his wife and he can't forget his depends.

No, we didn't forget, though it seems that Kim Jong upped his game against N Korea and is now nuclear capable, so ole trump deserves a big pat on the back for that one yup yup.
Or did you have an epiphany and connect that with Hillary somehow and Russian Plutonium? A secret deal orchestrated by a secret organization, that meets daily in Venice, to chew the bones of archeologists... while sipping the tears of autistic children? All kept on a secret lap top entrusted to the coke addicted daughter of Ronald Reagan, Patti Davis(google that I dare ya)?

 

[northmanlogging]

Give me 3 hours and a credible editor I could have a cult following by the end of the week... we'll wear yellow hats that say "Make Chocolate Milk Again"

**** guys, I'm even sober at the moment, and its a Saturday night...

 

[BrettS]

No, we didn't forget, though it seems that Kim Jong upped his game against N Korea and is now nuclear capable, so ole trump deserves a big pat on the back for that one yup yup.

How is that anything to do with Trump?, is that like saying the Russians helped Trump win in 2016 but biden won in 2020 fair and square lol

 

[wyk]

Seems people have forgotten Trump also met Kim jong un, does that make him as bad as Kim?. Will biden meet with him?, will need his hand held by his wife and he can't forget his depends.

I suspect Kim Jong Un is a much better businessman. Not sure how much Biden's wife wants to take part in politics. We all know how it went when Hillary incessantly whispered into Will Clintons ear.

 

[wyk]

How is that anything to do with Trump?, is that like saying the Russians helped Trump win in 2016 but biden won in 2020 fair and square lol

Brett,

Thank you for making a point.
If we want to talk about the 2020 election, Republicans and Trump filed over 63 lawsuits regarding election fraud. They won none of them, with many simply being thrown out on grounds of no support evidence or documents even provided. The Supreme court loaded with Trump judges rejected the Republicans bid to challenge the election.

Why would the Republicans, their supporters, and Trump not provide evidence if they had it? They had many courts loaded with republicans that would have welcomed any evidence. None was provided to support their cases. Why do you feel that is?

If your goal is more to rile us, you might be able to do so. I'm not sure why people like to purposefully upset others on the internet, but I understand it's a thing and folks are frustrated, especially about the last election. However, you may want to know I am a registered republican from Texas. So simply shouting meme-worthy republican propaganda at me won't accomplish much. This isn't really meant to be a politics argument thread, this is a thread I started to share my ideas and experiences with my friends. I am sure you'd understand that stepping on me and my friends is a bit rude. If you have a point to make, you're welcome to make it and support it and discuss it.

Politically, though, I have moved on long since I've left Texas' echo chamber.

 

[wyk]

America is still a young and still somewhat immature (adolescent) country compared with Europe. There are goods and bads to this, and people are people. That said, a culture that has been around longer is thought, or at least, hoped to have gained wisdom, if just though time.

My point was more that the political system itself forces Americans to be at each other.

Most European countries have a power sharing system. The US has a checks and balances system. Instead of all parties working with each other to accomplish goals like in Europe, you have two parties incessantly fighting with each other. I wanted to say this trickles down into the psyche of Americans, but it really is more of a foundation. The Constitution in effect created a two party system. In order for two parties to survive, they must differentiate themselves from one another. They can not simply be party B with benefits. They have to be Party B is nearly the opposite of party A. This adversarial aspect progressed and metastasized in to the mess we see today. Americans either adapt one platform or the other, or they remain unrepresented. Yes, you could vote green, but we all know what that will accomplish, whether short run or long. And we see how folks react when they are told 'I don't care for politics'. They see it as a cop out or being lazy. But all you need to do is look at voter turnout - a large percentage or people who are subscribed to a party do not bother to vote. In some presidential elections, less than 40% of the population eligible to vote showed up at all.

In Europe, nearly all systems are parliamentary. Even the ones that are technically presidential are still power sharing systems or systems where the president can actually easily be replaced or displaced by the body politic. This shapes a populace differently. It rewards cooperation to a much greater extent. I won't go into detail here, but the effect a system of governance has on a population is literally foundational. It influences the mindset and goals of a populace.
If your political system rewards fighting- people are gonna fight. Just have a look at Brett's completely unsolicited posts. He is trying to start a fight and he doesn't understand how he's been manipulated into doing so.

 

[BrettS]

Brett,

Thank you for making a point.
If we want to talk about the 2020 election, Republicans and Trump filed over 63 lawsuits regarding election fraud. They won none of them, with many simply being thrown out on grounds of no support evidence or documents even provided. The Supreme court loaded with Trump judges rejected the Republicans bid to challenge the election.

Why would the Republicans, their supporters, and Trump not provide evidence if they had it? They had many courts loaded with republicans that would have welcomed any evidence. None was provided to support their cases. Why do you feel that is?

If your goal is more to rile us, you might be able to do so. I'm not sure why people like to purposefully upset others on the internet, but I understand it's a thing and folks are frustrated, especially about the last election. However, you may want to know I am a registered republican from Texas. So simply shouting meme-worthy republican propaganda at me won't accomplish much. This isn't really meant to be a politics argument thread, this is a thread I started to share my ideas and experiences with my friends. I am sure you'd understand that stepping on me and my friends is a bit rude. If you have a point to make, you're welcome to make it and support it and discuss it.

Politically, though, I have moved on long since I've left Texas' echo chamber.

"No, we didn't forget, though it seems that Kim Jong upped his game against N Korea and is now nuclear capable, so ole trump deserves a big pat on the back for that one yup yup".
I was answering to this quote, not to your tome.
For the record I care not whether you are republican, democrat, blue, black, red, green or purple.... I care not a jot.

 

[Cricket]

No, we didn't forget, though it seems that Kim Jong upped his game against N Korea and is now nuclear capable, so ole trump deserves a big pat on the back for that one yup yup.
Or did you have an epiphany and connect that with Hillary somehow and Russian Plutonium? A secret deal orchestrated by a secret organization, that meets daily in Venice, to chew the bones of archeologists... while sipping the tears of autistic children? All kept on a secret lap top entrusted to the coke addicted daughter of Ronald Reagan, Patti Davis(google that I dare ya)?

A laptop stored in the basement of a pizza place with no basement.

 

[alanbaker]

I commend them. Zelensky has gained a lot of respect on the world stage for his actions.

I get Hungary’s catching a lot of refugees. I understand how reactionary nationalism can be bred by xenophobia and ethnocentrism. I’m still incredulous as to how all of this is still, somehow, going on. We were all told 20 or 25 years ago we were going to enter the information era that would solve the world’s problems and we had learned our lessons from history. There had to be an inflection point somewhere. I remember being young and optimistic about the world back then. Maybe it was September 2001. Maybe it was 2003. Maybe it was earlier. I don’t know, but somewhere something went off the rails and now we find ourselves here.

I find myself listening more and more to John Prine these days. I’m needing something to calm me down and make me think I’m sane.

As an aside, Paradise brought up some memories today. Not directly related to the ongoing, pointless conflict in Ukraine but still takes me back to my anti-MTR days when I spent some time in Frankfort campaigning for Ernie Fletcher to do something about strip mining.

Anyway, back to our regular programming.

I also have found some solace in John Prine, but at the same time "buckling in" for the all haul, not going to be a pretty ride. Just need one Russian general with one bullet . . .

 

[northmanlogging]

A laptop stored in the basement of a pizza place with no basement.

well, yeah... but that's a different story, and they call that plagiarism... So we'll say it is in the attic of a kosher hot dog factory... might as well bring the Hebrew people in on it too... makes the story more "believable"

 

[sawfun]

well, yeah... but that's a different story, and they call that plagiarism... So we'll say it is in the attic of a kosher hot dog factory... might as well bring the Hebrew people in on it too... makes the story more "believable"

Yes, but did you know that Hillary Clinton came from a pre-Musk colony on Mars? Maybe the National Enquirer can provide proof. Ya gotta admit, it'd make a great front cover to see while in the grocery line. I'm no Hillary or Trump fan, just an odorous, troll like, blue collar creature with no party to represent his 10+/hour a day azz.