Which is better?

[BS Tree Service]

Getting equipment and trying to find the extra business to pay for it is a bad idea unless it is really cheap equipment that will allow you to sell impulse purchases to your existing customers. The exception to this is buying equipment to replace employees. If you can buy a mini and fire an employee it is will save you more money than it costs. In general you should get more business and buy the equipment you need to keep up with the extra work. If your money is burning a hole in your pocket spend it on advertising so you will get the extra business you need to support more equipment.

Well for me it's going to be either hiring someone or getting some piece of equipment to be more efficient "that is when it picks up again". Things are slow for us now but I'm just trying to think ahead.

 

[BS Tree Service]

Don't get a skid steer. If you go with a loader get an articulating loader. I bought a skid steer and four years later I sold it to get a gehl 540. I incurred a small loss in doing so.

Make sure that you get what you need the first time you buy something.

How do you like the gehl? I really like the idea of having one. I would probably get something like that before a skid steer. Did you buy new or used?

 

[arboristCT]

hey man, if you already have some equipment and some sales then I believe you are in the right path! I don't think you need to borrow anything, like you said it might be slow now because is winter but when the good time gets here and you sell your work you should be able to buy better equipment.
I'd say go to school to get an arborist license if you don't one yet, it will help you alot.

 

[BS Tree Service]

hey man, if you already have some equipment and some sales then I believe you are in the right path! I don't think you need to borrow anything, like you said it might be slow now because is winter but when the good time gets here and you sell your work you should be able to buy better equipment.
I'd say go to school to get an arborist license if you don't one yet, it will help you alot.

Thank you, yeah one thing I am learning is you can never have enough training. I went to a school in Ohio call ACRT. Have you ever heard of it? It was good but very basic. I would like to get more training but not really sure where to go. I have 3 years of training with ropes in a tech school "more rescue stuff" but it really made it easy to transition it into trees.

 

[ATH]

.....
I'd say go to school to get an arborist license if you don't one yet, it will help you alot.

Even if you don't need any license, I'd agree with this. The best investment you can make is in yourself. Nobody can take knowledge. It doesn't depreciate in value. It doesn't rust. It does require regular upkeep and can go out of date...but those are cheaper to maintain than equipment.

As far as where to go: you might see if a local community college has some basic entomology courses that you can take. There may also be some other landscape-related courses or degree programs that could be beneficial to what you want. Even if it is not a formal education, look at some of the resources that TCIA and ISA offer for continuing education. Pick up a couple of Shigo books. Etc... Lots of opportunities...always more to learn about something.

 

[gorman]

How do you like the gehl? I really like the idea of having one. I would probably get something like that before a skid steer. Did you buy new or used?

It's real nice. It takes some time to get used to. The controls are much different than a bobcat type machine. It's much more useable on lawns and driveways and is 9 inches narrower than my old loader so I can squeeze it in more spots.

 

[arboristCT]

Even if you don't need any license, I'd agree with this. The best investment you can make is in yourself. Nobody can take knowledge. It doesn't depreciate in value. It doesn't rust. It does require regular upkeep and can go out of date...but those are cheaper to maintain than equipment.

As far as where to go: you might see if a local community college has some basic entomology courses that you can take. There may also be some other landscape-related courses or degree programs that could be beneficial to what you want. Even if it is not a formal education, look at some of the resources that TCIA and ISA offer for continuing education. Pick up a couple of Shigo books. Etc... Lots of opportunities...always more to learn about something.

another book that has helped me alot is P.P. pirone

 

[arboristCT]

Thank you, yeah one thing I am learning is you can never have enough training. I went to a school in Ohio call ACRT. Have you ever heard of it? It was good but very basic. I would like to get more training but not really sure where to go. I have 3 years of training with ropes in a tech school "more rescue stuff" but it really made it easy to transition it into trees.

no i've never herd of that school. You have the best learning school already which is your job, you'll learn a lot if you are practicing everything safely and controlled. I've actually learned many knots and techniques from youtube! you should check it out.

 

[BS Tree Service]

Yeah I have learned so much just being out in the field. I also bought the working climber series which was great

 

[arboristCT]

Yeah I have learned so much just being out in the field. I also bought the working climber series which was great

there you go! do you use single rope technique or double rope technique for climbing?
blake's hitch or hitch climber?

 

[BS Tree Service]

there you go! do you use single rope technique or double rope technique for climbing?
blake's hitch or hitch climber?

I use double rope with "get ready for it" the petal zigzag lol I know some people really frown on those but I like it. How about you?

 

[mike515]

This is a little long but I hope you read it all.

No matter what you decide to buy....one thing many people overlook in many different businesses is actually having a business plan. If you write a realistic, thorough business plan....there is almost no way it shouldn't work. If it doesn't work then you either wrote the plan the wrong way or you didn't execute it properly. Writing the plan isn't something you sit down and do over the weekend. It takes time. You do a feasibility study first to see if it's even worth writing the plan.

I have a good friend who is a great business consultant. I have the good fortune to be able to pick his brain whenever I want. Our line of work is a little different because almost all of us start out basically the same way. But contrary to what many people think, you don't really want to just plan on this next piece of equipment and then figure out how you will pay for it. It's the opposite. Visualize what you really want your business to grow into. What does that look like? Do you have 5 crews, fire wood sales, chip sales, maybe a landscaping crew? Whatever it is....start there and figure out the logistics. How does it work? How much does it cost to run? Etc. Then you work backwards from there to where you are now. Eventually, you get to the step you're currently thinking about and the answer is right in front of you in the math. It's like an upside down pyramid. But you start all the way at the top and work back to the single piece at the bottom of the triangle. This gives you a solid road map and a timetable to get to where you want to be.

Another thing....when (if) you write the business plan, don't worry about how you will get the money to pay for it right away. That part comes much later. Find out how much you need and figure out how the whole thing functions. When you have a good business plan, getting the money to pay for it is the easiest part. Everybody loves a winner. A few years ago, I was reading a story about a guy who wanted to start a cement sales/distribution company. He got the investments to start out with 12-15 brand new Mack cement trucks and the operating capital to get off the ground. I bet it was over $5 million up front...maybe more and he got it because he did exactly what I just described. He had the right plan. The likelihood of him starting with one old truck and ever making it to that level is very, very low.

 

[arboristCT]

I use double rope with "get ready for it" the petal zigzag lol I know some people really frown on those but I like it. How about you?

I use the hitch climber combo and my knot of preference is knut hitch

 

[BS Tree Service]

This is a little long but I hope you read it all.

No matter what you decide to buy....one thing many people overlook in many different businesses is actually having a business plan. If you write a realistic, thorough business plan....there is almost no way it shouldn't work. If it doesn't work then you either wrote the plan the wrong way or you didn't execute it properly. Writing the plan isn't something you sit down and do over the weekend. It takes time. You do a feasibility study first to see if it's even worth writing the plan.

I have a good friend who is a great business consultant. I have the good fortune to be able to pick his brain whenever I want. Our line of work is a little different because almost all of us start out basically the same way. But contrary to what many people think, you don't really want to just plan on this next piece of equipment and then figure out how you will pay for it. It's the opposite. Visualize what you really want your business to grow into. What does that look like? Do you have 5 crews, fire wood sales, chip sales, maybe a landscaping crew? Whatever it is....start there and figure out the logistics. How does it work? How much does it cost to run? Etc. Then you work backwards from there to where you are now. Eventually, you get to the step you're currently thinking about and the answer is right in front of you in the math. It's like an upside down pyramid. But you start all the way at the top and work back to the single piece at the bottom of the triangle. This gives you a solid road map and a timetable to get to where you want to be.

Another thing....when (if) you write the business plan, don't worry about how you will get the money to pay for it right away. That part comes much later. Find out how much you need and figure out how the whole thing functions. When you have a good business plan, getting the money to pay for it is the easiest part. Everybody loves a winner. A few years ago, I was reading a story about a guy who wanted to start a cement sales/distribution company. He got the investments to start out with 12-15 brand new Mack cement trucks and the operating capital to get off the ground. I bet it was over $5 million up front...maybe more and he got it because he did exactly what I just described. He had the right plan. The likelihood of him starting with one old truck and ever making it to that level is very, very low.

Wow, I tell you it's nice to see there are people out there who are willing to take the time to share some wisdom. Thank you for that. I did make a business plan but I had no idea what I was doing. I really need to do it the right way!

 

[BS Tree Service]

I use the hitch climber combo and my knot of preference is knut hitch

I have not used that yet. Is it smooth? Does it burn or damage the ropes at all?

 

[Groundman One]

When running a tree service, is it better to work your way up and buy your equipment as you go, or is it better to take out the loans for everything you want/need and make the payments?

What's your opinion???

Low debt and low overhead is its own reward. Far easier to weather the financial storms and unforeseen business problems/slowdowns if things are kept simple. Granted, this isn't everyone's cup of tea. Some people are geared towards running big operations; they`re out moving and shaking and living on the cell phone making deals non-stop, and business if their life. It takes a ton of effort and energy, and more power to those guys. But at that point you might not own your business so much as your business owns you. That`s something that has to be considered.

If you're not 100% sure you are one of those people and are going to stay one of those people for years, keep it simple and keep payments low.

 

[arboristCT]

I have not used that yet. Is it smooth? Does it burn or damage the ropes at all?

its awesome, I personally love it. It does wear as time goes by but that's normal because lines and everything has to get replaced sometime.

 

[BS Tree Service]

its awesome, I personally love it. It does wear as time goes by but that's normal because lines and everything has to get replaced sometime.

Have you ever seen or tried the zigzag?

 

[Philthy]

+1 on the education. Stump grinding is another service that goes hand in hand with removals, not saying it's going to make you a million overnight, but if a used grinder can be obtained at a fair price, it should be bringing in actual profit within a few years. It also looks good on business cards and advertisements, shows a start to finish mentality that homeowners appreciate..

 

[BS Tree Service]

+1 on the education. Stump grinding is another service that goes hand in hand with removals, not saying it's going to make you a million overnight, but if a used grinder can be obtained at a fair price, it should be bringing in actual profit within a few years. It also looks good on business cards and advertisements, shows a start to finish mentality that homeowners appreciate..

Yeah we do stump grinding but we have to rent it so we pretty much don't make anything doing it. We have to bunch them up then rent the grinder and do them in one day.