Why do "Chinesium" chainsaws need a richer oil mix?

[epo]

The explanation is someone removed it or it's in a different location on the saw.

Or the saw was intended for a different market and was imported not by Stihl. Here, of course, we don't have that EPA emissions sticker on 500i (Made in Germany).

 

[bwalker]

As I have written here before, presence on the list means compliance. If you don't believe it, you can compare the data with that required by law. Of course, this system is based on trust with the EPA's system of inspections of the applicants.

4 farmer tech saws with a cat muffler were compliant in 2022. None are now. In addition has anyone seen a farmer tech with a cat muffler?

 

[bwalker]

Or the saw was intended for a different market and was imported not by Stihl. Here, of course, we don't have that EPA emissions sticker on 500i (Made in Germany).

The global 361 I bought had a different sticker with its emmissions compliant info on it.

 

[epo]

4 farmer tech saws with a cat muffler were compliant in 2022. None are now. In addition has anyone seen a farmer tech with a cat muffler?

They could be compliant rather now, too, since the allowable values are unlikely to have changed. The question is whether the EPA requires annual certification renewal for small engines (very possibly yes).

 

[bwalker]

They could be compliant rather now, too, since the allowable values are unlikely to have changed. The question is whether the EPA requires annual certification renewal for small engines (very possibly yes).

Its a yearly thing so if they are sold in 2024 they have to be compliant they have to be on the list.
Let's not beat around the bush here. These saws in question are not legal, period.

 

[epo]

The global 361 I bought had a different sticker with its emmissions compliant info on it.

If I remember correctly, I saw that a Stihl chainsaw made in the USA and coming from the official distribution also had the EPA emissions sticker left. But I could be wrong.
Of course, here we have a Euro emissions sticker.

 

[epo]

Its a yearly thing so if they are sold in 2024 they have to be compliant they have to be on the list.
Let's not beat around the bush here. These saws in question are not legal, period.

https://echo.epa.gov/report-environmental-violations

 

[bwalker]

They could be compliant rather now, too, since the allowable values are unlikely to have changed. The question is whether the EPA requires annual certification renewal for small engines (very possibly yes).

They do.

 

[fields_mj]

Well, they have lazy, arrogant idiots in Japan also. But mistakes should not be allowed to leave the factory.

I haven't been to Japan for over 20 years now, so I can't say what it's like today. 20 years ago, you might find an arrogant idiot, but lazy was not tolerated. It was simply culturally unacceptable.

 

[fields_mj]

Its a yearly thing so if they are sold in 2024 they have to be compliant they have to be on the list.
Let's not beat around the bush here. These saws in question are not legal, period.

Yeah, but I think the point of this part if the discussion is that nobody cares. Even those of us who genuinely want to do what we can to take care of our environment are more than happy to aggravate any of the 3 letter alphabet organizations when we can. Talking about whether or not they are EPA compliant is like having a discussion about paying sales tax for on-line purchases or cash sales for previously owned products.

 

[bwalker]

I haven't been to Japan for over 20 years now, so I can't say what it's like today. 20 years ago, you might find an arrogant idiot, but lazy was not tolerated. It was simply culturally unacceptable.

The Japanese are on a different level when it comes to be conscientious at their jobs. Laziness just isn't tolerated. And from an engineering standpoint their culture of continuous improvement is amazing albeit stressful on the engineers that are a part of it.

 

[bwalker]

Yeah, but I think the point of this part if the discussion is that nobody cares. Even those of us who genuinely want to do what we can to take care of our environment are more than happy to aggravate any of the 3 letter alphabet organizations when we can. Talking about whether or not they are EPA compliant is like having a discussion about paying sales tax for on-line purchases or cash sales for previously owned products.

That maybe so, but let's be honest they are not legal for sale in the US and the Chinese scumbags that sell them know this. You want to aid and abed these people that's on you.

 

[thenne1713]

I worked for a Tier 1 to GM at one time and your comments are spot on.
Chinese manufacturing is OK with someone like Toyota, Honda, Stihl, etc over seeing the operation. On their own not so good.
In addition the methods they use to make raw materials are antiquated and thus they are lower in quality. For instance Chinese steel is still made from iron ore lump and fines, whereas US made steel has been using benefacted pellets for decades. As a result US blast furnaces have much tighter quality control over their end product.

China had zero respect for any US Patents in past years, not sure what has changed in past 10-20-yrs, esp. w/ the counterfeits; still see same products, maybe they just quit labeling as authentic and thus Holtzforma, expired patents, etc.? US GOV acceptance of their violations has surely changed? Then what happened with the EPA/ certification issues?

 

[bwalker]

China had zero respect for any US Patents in past years, not sure what has changed in past 10-20-yrs, esp. w/ the counterfeits; still see same products, maybe they just quit labeling as authentic and thus Holtzforma, expired patents, etc.? US GOV acceptance of their violations has surely changed? Then what happened with the EPA/ certification issues?

China just isn't a reputable country that respects the international rules, laws and order. The scheme, counterfeit and cheat whenever they can.

 

[fields_mj]

China just isn't a reputable country that respects the international rules, laws and order. The scheme, counterfeit and cheat whenever they can.

I don't disagree, but that also sounds like most of corporate America. Gone is the day of being able to take someone at their word when it comes to a business deal, or recognizing that the "little man" is just as vital to an organization as the top dog.

The idea of being legal for sale in the US is a gray area. On one hand, the FED has the authority and responsibility to regulate international trade. On the other hand, their policies and enforcement standards change depending on the country in question. Fair, no. Reality, yes. Life has never been about fairness, and if the OEMs don't like it they need to get better funding for their PAC.

 

[bwalker]

I don't disagree, but that also sounds like most of corporate America. Gone is the day of being able to take someone at their word when it comes to a business deal, or recognizing that the "little man" is just as vital to an organization as the top dog.

The idea of being legal for sale in the US is a gray area. On one hand, the FED has the authority and responsibility to regulate international trade. On the other hand, their policies and enforcement standards change depending on the country in question. Fair, no. Reality, yes. Life has never been about fairness, and if the OEMs don't like it they need to get better funding for their PAC.

Corporate America does by and large respect thing like intellectual property, etc. Generally they play buy the rules. CHina almost never does.
And it's not a gray area. They are not legal for sale in the US. They are in violation of the clean air act.

 

[thenne1713]

China had zero respect for any US Patents in past years, not sure what has changed in past 10-20-yrs, esp. w/ the counterfeits; still see same products, maybe they just quit labeling as authentic and thus Holtzforma, expired patents, etc.? US GOV acceptance of their violations has surely changed? Then what happened with the EPA/ certification issues?

Sorry, forgot to answer MY OPINION is I use Echo JASO FD RATED OIL at 50:1 in everything, and I suspect it would work just fine in the CH saws also. Most JASO FD oils are improved synthetics, and THAT is the qualifying difference between new 2-cycle oils and old oils. "YOUR Mileage may vary"

 

[echomeister]

Corporate America has Lawyers on staff that advises management of the cost incurred by infringing patents. Especially if it looks like willful infringement. Even the Chinese sawmakers are scared. See the gasket covering the nh843 strato port

 

[GeneralKayoss]

That maybe so, but let's be honest they are not legal for sale in the US and the Chinese scumbags that sell them know this. You want to aid and abed these people that's on you.

I don't think anyone cares about the legality TBH. I'll keep on buying them until the EPA comes and arrests me

 

[thompsoncustom]

I don't think anyone cares about the legality TBH. I'll keep on buying them until the EPA comes and arrests me

I wish the made some drop in parts for my diesels to bypass all the EPA **** i'd be all over it. Emissions garbage is not enforced in my state luckily except for semi's they still have to comply somewhat at least.