I was interested to read the post about using 30w as my push mower says to use it. Never thought of it in a chainsaw.
Why do "Chinesium" chainsaws need a richer oil mix?
- Thread starter Chucksta
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When I was young, my grandpa had a small saw Mill. One of the old timber cutters that brought him some logs to Mill said that they poured a quart of 30 weight motor oil into a 5 gallon can of gas to use in their saws. That works out to be 20:1.
That's the one I got. It was 469 with 150 off and some other discount bought it to just under 300 with 36" solid bar. The bar and chain look great. I haven't used the saw yet. I did unpack it and check over some of the screws. All tight. Comes with 3 t handles. Scrench and screwdriver and some other stuff. Filled it with fuel and oil. No leaks, fired up on 7th pull. Decomp popped out on every pull. Comes with a decomp plug as well and 7 and 8 pin rim sprocket. It idled well (2200 rpm) has good throttle response. Reved up to around 10,000 rpm. Running pretty rich. Stared 1 pull every time warm. I haven't tried tuning it yet or putting it in wood. Just haven't had time or decent weather to mess with it anymore.
When I was 16 I had a honda 250r atv, it had 20:1 stamped right on the tank.
That's what I ran in it too, with whatever cheap 2 stroke oil we sold at our gas station. It was fun as hell but a little smoky lol.
thompsoncustom
ArboristSite Guru
Best 4wheeler ever I had a 1988 but I had to run 100LL or higher due to the dome I put in the head. Pretty sure I ran mine at 32:1
I can't remember what ratio my dad's old Mac 10 10 used. I remember he bought the oil in small metal cans with pull tabs.
It’s old (2006) but I presume it still stands (restrictions have only gotten tighter)
https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2013-09/documents/nonroadengines-0609.pdf
In California it is, I haven’t looked up SORE (Small Off Road Engine) but a quick google search shows this. The state mower, but the ban refers to all sub 25hp engines.
GeneralKayoss
ArboristSite Operative
Well yeah, you can't buy a gas powered anything in California.
Anyone that regularly sees things with chinese manufactured bearings (even name brand) in them knows why they would suggest a heavier oil ratio, even better made saw bearings survive better with a heavier oil ratio and so do pistons. I don't care if folks run chinese saws just don't go around trying to sell them for used name brand prices even if you ported it or swapped a pile of parts into it.
No problems with buying gas powered chainsaws though (for now). Except maybe those with <45 cc engines.
A relevant picture:
https://calcattlemen.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2022-CARB-SORE-Factsheet-Final-Final.pdf
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/list-determine-preempt-road-applications
thompsoncustom
ArboristSite Guru
Thank you that was useful information but still not US code that says they are required to do so. Reason I point that out and not just take their word for it is 3 letter agencies are known for making there own interpretation of the law. The ATF is notorious for this and even tho there is no such law just there interpretation of something they can still enforce them under there own rules.
From the article you listed: EPA highly recommends that importers inspect the engines they intend to import to verify that they are EPA-certified and labeled.
That's not wishy-washy at all (highly recommends)
In the article to is list some companies that paid civil fines but not criminal fines.
If it isn't an actual law than it may not hold up as there is a very important supreme court case right now "loper bright" that may determine if these 3 letter agencies can actually interpret the law or have to go by what it actually written into law.
Title 40 Chapter I Subchapter U Part 1068 Subpart B § 1068.101
You may not sell, offer for sale, or introduce or deliver into commerce in the United States or import into the United States any new engine/equipment after emission standards take effect for the engine/equipment, unless it is covered by a valid certificate of conformity for its model year and has the required label or tag. You also may not take any of the actions listed in the previous sentence with respect to any equipment containing an engine subject to this part's provisions unless the engine is covered by a valid certificate of conformity for its model year and has the required engine label or tag. We may assess a civil penalty up to $44,539 for each engine or piece of equipment in violation.
thompsoncustom
ArboristSite Guru
Thats perfect and I was about to say well they must be illegal than but I reread it and no where does it say it's illegal to do so or results in any criminal penaltys.
Maybe that's how these Chinese companies are getting away with it if it's not a crime and only civil action can be taken on them?
Can you buy a 500i clone from Farmertec with EFI? Because engines with EFI are a completely different category, because they allow more precise fuel metering. It was, among other things, emissions regulations that caused carburetors in cars to be replaced by EFI.
I asked about stratocharged engines or catalytic converters, because the current Stihl chainsaw versions that were copied by the Chinese use stratified scavenging to meet emissions requirements.
Before Stihl commonly introduced stratocharged engines into their products they also used catalytic converters.
Farmertec had chainsaws on the EPA certification list that were just equipped with catalytic converters so they could meet the requirements.
What's your definition of 'illegal'?
This pasted information is just someone's interpretation of the law.
I don't believe you can't resell a used mower. Because if this were true, it would also have to apply to used cars (and all other machines) that do not meet current regulations, but which did when they were introduced to the market.
The new emission standards apply to new engines. The SORE regulations do not prohibit possession, use, or repair of existing CARB-compliant SORE equipment. California residents and businesses may continue using their CARB-compliant SORE equipment, and repair it, until the end of its life. Stores may continue to sell any engines and equipment that were manufactured under valid CARB certifications.
thompsoncustom
ArboristSite Guru
Well my definition of it would have nothing to do with anything.
But to be illegal I would assume it would have to be a crime. Like speeding for example which seems pretty minor is still a crime and illegal with criminal penalties.
If it is not a crime or illegal but can be enforced by civil matters that would make sense why they are for sale online like amazon as they haven't broke any criminal laws like selling drugs or counterfeit items and amazon would care less about what civil actions the company selling might face.
They do, they're just getting harder and harder to find. EPA has fined most of the big names out of existence. Most of what is out there now is owned by someone overseas and doing business with them feels like a slimy black market transaction. No live customer service, (very) delayed email responses if you ever get one at all.
Kinda like.....Clone Saws.
