Why do "Chinesium" chainsaws need a richer oil mix?

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

Tariffs are a terrible idea. Read books by Walter E Williams and Thomas Sowell and you will understand why. Suffice it to say that tariffs are a tax on the poor and middle class more than on the rich, as they are paid by the consumer, not the manufacturer. Nations with high tariffs perform worse economically than those with little or no tariffs.

I'm a big fan of W.E. Williams and Dr. Sowell, but tariffs have their place in the quiver of tools needed by a POTUS when wanting to force an economic competitor to the negotiating table.

 

[Hermio]

I'm a big fan of W.E. Williams and Dr. Sowell, but tariffs have their place in the quiver of tools needed by a POTUS when wanting to force an economic competitor to the negotiating table.

What actually happens is the competing country will raise tariffs on US exports. That way the citizens of both countries lose. If I were POTUS (and I really do not want that job!), I would set up tariffs to match whatever the other country does. If thy levied no tariffs on us, we would levy none on them. They would soon learn the real value of international trade!

 

[SS396driver]

You’re 500 isn’t a strato. 50:1 with saber is adequate. If a Strato saw is 30% more efficient, it’s doing the same work on 30% less oil going through the bearings. That puts the ratio down to about 36:1 I believe in order for the bearings and cylinder to receive the same amount of oil as an old school two-stroke design. And more oil doesn’t necessarily plug things up with carbon. There are many oils out today that have enough detergent in them that the more you run, the cleaner they are inside

Huh? If it’s mixed at 50.1 it’s 50.1 no matter the flow . Yes less fuel means Less oil going through but the ratio never changes .

 

[OM617YOTA]

Huh? If it’s mixed at 50.1 it’s 50.1 no matter the flow . Yes less fuel means Less oil going through but the ratio never changes .

I took it to mean a strato saw would need fuel mixed at 36:1 to get the same amount of oil through the saw, despite lower fuel consumption, as a non-strato saw running 50:1.

 

[SS396driver]

I took it to mean a strato saw would need fuel mixed at 36:1 to get the same amount of oil through the saw, despite lower fuel consumption, as a non-strato saw running 50:1.

K I see what you mean . But does the strato need that ratio ? Seems they run and last on 50.1 just an observation

 

[OM617YOTA]

K I see what you mean . But does the strato need that ratio ? Seems they run and last on 50.1 just an observation

Lots of people in this thread more qualified than I to answer that question. Since you asked and I'm bored at the moment..............

1.) 50:1 in a strato saw would in theory be the same amount of oil as ~75:1 in a non-strato saw. I'd never run that little oil. Academic for me, I don't own any strato saws, and still run richer than 50:1.

2.) The "right" amount of oil seems to vary hugely depending on usage. I'm a part time firewood cutter homeowner, most saws would last my entire life using 50:1 and be fine. Professional logger putting more trigger time in one day than I'll put in all year might burn up a saw in a hurry running that little oil.

3.) I'm a big fan of oil, I'll never understand the people that try to see how close they can get to running their equipment without oil. Even the best oil in the world doesn't do anything if it's not there. Oil is cheap and engines are expensive.

4.) Nothing to do with saws, but like I said, I'm a big fan of oil. I change the oil in my vehicles frequently too. Oil is cheap and engines are expensive.

5.) I'd bet a cup of coffee that more saws are killed by poor tuning than wrong oil mix. I'd rather run 50:1 with boat oil and the right tune than 16:1 with Red Armor and a lean tune.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

What actually happens is the competing country will raise tariffs on US exports. That way the citizens of both countries lose. If I were POTUS (and I really do not want that job!), I would set up tariffs to match whatever the other country does. If thy levied no tariffs on us, we would levy none on them. They would soon learn the real value of international trade!

I already knew all that years and years ago, and it doesn't change what I posted. And, Trump announced the tariffs would be "reciprocal" about a week ago.

It's sad Dr. Sowell wasn't our first Black president! Justice Clarence Thomas would've been fantastic too, but I prefer him on SCOTUS.

 

[SS396driver]

I run 40.1 in the two strokes

 

[NSEric]

I run 40.1 in the two strokes

What mixture do you run in the four strokes?

 

[Marley5]

What mixture do you run in the four strokes?

Straight unadulterated non ethanol fuel.
Yes, I straight gas my 4-strokes.

 

[SS396driver]

What mixture do you run in the four strokes?

Non E 91 View attachment IMG_4839.mov

 

[sean donato]

Lots of people in this thread more qualified than I to answer that question. Since you asked and I'm bored at the moment..............

1.) 50:1 in a strato saw would in theory be the same amount of oil as ~75:1 in a non-strato saw. I'd never run that little oil. Academic for me, I don't own any strato saws, and still run richer than 50:1.

2.) The "right" amount of oil seems to vary hugely depending on usage. I'm a part time firewood cutter homeowner, most saws would last my entire life using 50:1 and be fine. Professional logger putting more trigger time in one day than I'll put in all year might burn up a saw in a hurry running that little oil.

3.) I'm a big fan of oil, I'll never understand the people that try to see how close they can get to running their equipment without oil. Even the best oil in the world doesn't do anything if it's not there. Oil is cheap and engines are expensive.

4.) Nothing to do with saws, but like I said, I'm a big fan of oil. I change the oil in my vehicles frequently too. Oil is cheap and engines are expensive.

5.) I'd bet a cup of coffee that more saws are killed by poor tuning than wrong oil mix. I'd rather run 50:1 with boat oil and the right tune than 16:1 with Red Armor and a lean tune.

I don't think it's that cut and dry, plenty of loggers around here getting the same 2 possibly 3 years out of a saw, same time they got out of older saws. See more saws die from getting dropped or crushed then worn out anymore.

 

[huskihl]

I have my doubts that a strato saw is more efficient than a fuel injected saw. Honda used to put stratified charge engines in their vehicles, but changed over to fuel injection for more power and better fuel economy. Would not the same apply to chainsaws? BTW, my 500i cuts more wood per gallon of fuel than my previous 441C or 038 Super.

The specs from stihl say the 500 uses nearly as much fuel as a 661. It’s a crude version of fuel injection more similar to 80’s style TBI. But even TBI had exhaust sensors I believe. The 500 has a case pressure sensor and an engine heat sensor with nothing controlling fuel from an O2 sensor. Fwiw, the 462 cuts about twice as much firewood per tank as my 500.

 

[huskihl]

I took it to mean a strato saw would need fuel mixed at 36:1 to get the same amount of oil through the saw, despite lower fuel consumption, as a non-strato saw running 50:1.

Yes

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Non E 91 View attachment 1245313

I miss that kind of idle.

I wish I could have gotten away with E-free 91.

Lucky I could get the good stuff race E-free from the pumps from Can-am and Mule fuel.

Just a street car I toyed with on build. Nothing like todays stuff.

Had a 65 66 69 at end.

65 chevelle convt was my HS car. 66 chevelle was my brothers HS car I bought from him later. 66 impala convt was bought new by uncle.
Love to have my factory big block 71 monte back too. Then the 70 GTO and so on and so on.

 

[SS396driver]

I miss that kind of idle.

I wish I could have gotten away with E-free 91.

Lucky I could get the good stuff race E-free from the pumps from Can-am and Mule fuel.

Just a street car I toyed with on build. Nothing like todays stuff.

Had a 65 66 69 at end.

65 chevelle convt was my HS car. 66 chevelle was my brothers HS car I bought from him later. 66 impala convt was bought new by uncle.
Love to have my factory big block 71 monte back too. Then the 70 GTO and so on and so on.

The engine was made to run pump gas . I lost a little HP with the cam but I wanted the old school sound .

 

[CJ1]

The study most refer to was done by Yamaha. I wasn't aware there was one done for kart engines too, although I wasn't into karts so wouldn't have known about it. It would make sense similar conclusions were drawn, the old macs had more in common with dirt bikes engines of the era then what most saws did at that time.
Going off memory, I think the conclusion was 16 to 1 was the happy medium for making power vs parasitic drag, although I can't remember what oil was deemed "the best". Too long ago. I'd still like to see the same test done with some of the modern oils we have available today.

This wasn't a "test" persay but a good friend who happens to build 2 stroke engines for a living was having issues Keeping his sons small bore dirt bikes together. It was lube related and he tried many different brands. He was loosing the bottom bearings way too frequently and replacing the topends every race because of ring end gap and skirt wear. The ratios he had to run to keep things together lost HP because of not enough fuel even with rejetting 16 to 20:1 seemed like too much drag for the rpms that CR80 was running. He ended up with Dominator running at 30:1. The bottom ends lasted a season with no issues and topends went 20-30 hours with minimal wear. Mike was afraid to run them any longer because of exploding them, so they were changed as a preventative. His boy is a AA racer and extremely hard on bikes. When they switched to a CR250 4st it was a disaster, a very expensive one! Mike is the one that convinced me to switch to Dominator and I have had no issues with it unlike R50 when I was running it.

As far china junk needing more oil, yea something has to fill the gaps from poor fit up and crappy machining.

CJ