Winches...who has used a Lewis or portable capstan?

[IllinoisJim]

winches, etc...

I have a similar situation in that I have some very steep woods to clean up and haul out some wood which will become firewood. Erosion is a potential problem and finished look is important so just yarding them up the hills is not preferred. Some is down the hill and across a creek. The woods are fairly thick and distances are up to about 250' which also make winching harder/slower.

My plan is to cut the wood into about 200 lb (max) lengths. Then put up a stationary cable between a large tree at the bottom and top. A pulley carriage will run on the cable and a second lighter cable will run to the top. At the top I will use a fairly high speed winch to bring up the blocks. The blocks will be lifted off the ground when going up the cable. The small weights will let me use fairly light cable - I am thinking 1/4" for the static line and 3/16 for the winch line. I will need someone at the top and bottom. There needs to be considerable slack in the main cable to keep the tension from exceeding the working load rating.

Here is a somewhat similar setup (but using VERY light cable):
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/deaton0601.html

I need to do this over a wide area. The light rigging makes it easy to move.

I can also use this to move other things up or down hills.

 

[TreeandLand]

erosion

I have a similar situation in that I have some very steep woods to clean up and haul out some wood which will become firewood. Erosion is a potential problem and finished look is important so just yarding them up the hills is not preferred. Some is down the hill and across a creek. The woods are fairly thick and distances are up to about 250' which also make winching harder/slower.

My plan is to cut the wood into about 200 lb (max) lengths. Then put up a stationary cable between a large tree at the bottom and top. A pulley carriage will run on the cable and a second lighter cable will run to the top. At the top I will use a fairly high speed winch to bring up the blocks. The blocks will be lifted off the ground when going up the cable. The small weights will let me use fairly light cable - I am thinking 1/4" for the static line and 3/16 for the winch line. I will need someone at the top and bottom. There needs to be considerable slack in the main cable to keep the tension from exceeding the working load rating.

Here is a somewhat similar setup (but using VERY light cable):
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/deaton0601.html

I need to do this over a wide area. The light rigging makes it easy to move.

I can also use this to move other things up or down hills.

Good point about erosion. In my case I could put a block high enough in a tree as a redirect, and that will lift the nose of the log up enough so it won't be plowing up the ground. If you skid logs when the ground is frozen I think they will slide along the snowpack and even if there isn't much snow they shouldn't dig up the ground as much. You could do that when you don't want to take time to set up the skyline that you described.

 

[Tree Machine]

I don't know what to say. Slow, very, very slow, even with a 394XP. Saw screams in monotone. You have to stand there with your finger on the saw's trigger or configure a clamp or wire to hold the trigger down while you get out of way of potential snapback in the unlikely case something would let loose. Oh, the tension on the rope's tail needs to be pulled with constant and consistent tension so the rope won't slip around the capstan (this is a two handed operation). Add those two hands to the other one needing to do the trigger work=two guys waiting and waiting and waiting.

Make sure all protruding stubs are cut off the log so they don't drag in the earth or catch on roots, other trees. etc. Use something on the bottom side of the front of the log so it doesn't plow.

Have radios between the saw guy(s)/rope puller and the guy babysitting the log because you may not be able to hear each other over the saw screaming.

What else, oh, when the saw powerhead is still screaming and the capstan all of a sudden quits turning, you may think you've blown gears or something but most likely it's just the shear pin giving way so you don't fry the gears. This is a (relatively) cheap fix, but not one that you can do yourself. It needs to be sent back to the factory to have that done.

There are some positives. It doesn't take up much room on a garage shelf.

 

[Tree Machine]

keeping it simple

If you're just getting firewood up the hill (not an entire log), let me share something that worked remarkably well.

Set a pully on a sling anchored to a tree up the hill. I suggest the pulley be a Petzl ProTraxion or some similar cammed pulley (Ideally a cammed pulley, that way you can rest) or a safety prussik to catch reverse travel. Cut your pieces to three or two or one firewood lengths each, depending on how heavy. Find yourself a dolly or cart or small wagon, etc. If you have a steerable cart, point the back end going uphill so the guy tending cart can rear-steer.

The guy up top attaches himself to the rope as a counterweight. He's pulling downhill as the cart guy is tending / pushing uphill. You will meet at the halfway point at which time you slap each other a high five knowing you've solved the problem with a simple approach that costs nothing, sets up and breaks down fast and utilizes what you already probably have in your kit.

 

[Koa Man]

My Stihl 034 Super, which I use on the Simpson capstan will lock the throttle at high speed without the use of any auxiliary device. I also use 3 strand rope, which is the recommended rope to use per the manufacturer. It gives a much better grip. I haven't had any problems and moving the brush and logs uphill at around 40-50 fpm is still a lot better than dragging or carrying it.

We have moved huge piles of brush uphill in the course of a day with 3 guys and the winch and not be exhausted. I have also moved much much smaller amounts of brush with 3 guys uphill and no winch and be totally beat by the time we were done.

Any winch is not going to be very fast, but it sure saves a lot of labor.

 

[Tree Machine]

I could find much use in this winch

It just takes the right capstan winch to be efficient and practical and profitable and user-friendly and portable and powerful and versatile and I could go on. A tool that pays it's rent, so to speak.

Try this link, www.portablewinch.com. The winch is powered by a honda 4-stroke and is quite powerful. We have ours over two years now and it is a big time saver. We've used it to drag large piles of brush/limbs up steep, rocky snow covered slopes; to skid logs and to get bogged down trucks back on the road.

We had one job where a large white pine was wind thrown and crushed a lakeside dock. We couldn't get trucks, chippers,etc. to the blow down so we cut it into 15' lengths, with limbs attached, and winched it across a cove to where we had our equipment and could deal with it.

When we purchased the winch we also purchased the optional nose cone The cone fits over the end of a log or brush pile and helps the log/brush navigate over and around stumps and rocks. The cone also helps prevent whatever you're winching from digging into soft ground.

The winch has enabled us to be more competitive when pricing tough jobs.

A-3, thanks for posting that link.

There is also a write-up on this Honda-powered rope winch in the January, 2010
Tree Care Industry magazine in the "Cutting Edge - Products" section. It is on page 18.

 

[Tree Machine]

Hello Koa Man. Good seeing you.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Do a seach for chainsaw winches, there should be a half dozen threads about it at least.

 

[Tree Machine]

Yaaaa, I just redirected one to here.

That's my general opinion, Norway and in this case my opinion holds no depth at all. I've had mine ten years and have used it maybe ten times.


However, that Honda..... i read on it that it has a two-stage speed thing going. I would think one of these and a log arch would be the dynamic duo in a terrain-challenged situation.


I have been to areas like where Timber McPherson and Koa Man, Gads! Your terrain and obstacles. I don't know how you could survive doing tree care without some sort of winch system in the kit.

For me, everything around me is flat. I'm spoiled rotten with that luxury. I hardly ever have a use for any winch. Well, could used one here:

Since then I've bought a 12V capstan winch, surplus gear from battleship parts
(I am not kidding you)
but I have yet to mount it on the back of the chipper because I would have to remove the regular cable winch back there, which I also never use.

I'm planning to send it to Bandit if I ever order a new 6" chipper.

 

[Bearcreek]

What're we lookin at here?

 

[Tree Machine]

My screwup is what we're looking at. A situation where a powered capstan winch would have probably gotten me out of here.

Instead, I had to call my wife to yank me out, forward, and the groundguy's vehicle on the 5:1 attached to the frame.


It would have paid itself off in avoiding the hassle factor and embarassment when you're wife just won't quit with it afterwards.

 

[pdqdl]

I have both a capstan winch, and a lewis winch. So I can advise you on both.

The Lewis winch is useless, unless they have changed their design. It has great pulling power, but it does not have a reverse gear. so you pull a heavy load, the line is still loaded tight, then you cannot detach from it! Who uses a winch on a load that doesn't need to be released at the end of a pull? Mine sits unused in the back room. Anybody want to buy it from me?

The capstan rope winch does everything it claims to do: pull a rope with relatively slow speed and low horsepower. Don't think it will replace a 200hp truck on the end of a rope. If you consider it to be a huge improvement on a Maasdam Powr puller (rope hoist), you will probably put it in the right place.

I use ours to haul logs and brush up (or down) hills, and it is pretty good at pulling trees over too. Consider using a pulley on the end of a rope as a re-direct, thrown over a high branch to help lift the logs off the ground. Using a towable log dolly will really improve the load capacity, too.

They work particularly well in situations where you have a long run up a hill and the traction is poor. 500-1000 lb logs come skidding up the hill. Slowly, but surely. Not any slower, however, than much more powerful winches attached to truck bumpers or other hydraulic equipment. The capstan feature allows instant release.

Operation is a bit tedious unless you invent a throttle lock for the chainsaw. Idling...no rope movement.
Squeezing the trigger takes one hand, so you only have one hand left over to pull the capstan lead.
Two hands free or a 2nd man=regular progress with the rope winch.

No three man crew can haul logs up a steep hill as quickly or easily as the winch and proper rigging can. Because the line pull is not so great, a cheap 3/8" or 7/16" twist rope is perfect for this machine, especially if you are using extra pulleys to gain mechanical advantage.

It will never outperform a tractor or truck pulling logs. Those who have commented that it is too slow were not using it where it is well suited for the job. Use the right machine for each job.

I use a maasdam rope winch only when I cannot tolerate the risk of engine failure, where greater speed is not needed, or where the load must be held securely and there is no need for a rapid release.

 

[Bearcreek]

My screwup is what we're looking at. A situation where a powered capstan winch would have probably gotten me out of here.

Instead, I had to call my wife to yank me out, forward, and the groundguy's vehicle on the 5:1 attached to the frame.


It would have paid itself off in avoiding the hassle factor and embarassment when you're wife just won't quit with it afterwards.

I see now. I couldn't tell what was going on in your other pic. Thats quite a rig you got there. Is it a chip truck?

 

[Tree Machine]

Yes, like pdqxl says, the manual Maasadam rope puller is the ultimate in slow power.

Like in the picture above, a Maasdam rope puller would do no good.

See, with a powered capstan, you tension the tail and it engages the pull. It doesn't matter whether you're standing 2 feet or 22 feet away, when you pull the tail, you engage tension.

That means I could be sitting behind the steering wheel of the truck, holding the rope, coordinating the steering/acceleration and pulling myself out of this near-tipover situation, alone and swiftly.

 

[Tree Machine]

Thats quite a rig you got there. Is it a chip truck?

'Tip' truck there in the picture.

Tool stowage also, you can see the large tool door partially open there on the drivers' side. Chips offload via powered conveyor.

 

[dh1984]

I have both a capstan winch, and a lewis winch. So I can advise you on both.

The Lewis winch is useless, unless they have changed their design. It has great pulling power, but it does not have a reverse gear. so you pull a heavy load, the line is still loaded tight, then you cannot detach from it! Who uses a winch on a load that doesn't need to be released at the end of a pull? Mine sits unused in the back room. Anybody want to buy it from me?

The capstan rope winch does everything it claims to do: pull a rope with relatively slow speed and low horsepower. Don't think it will replace a 200hp truck on the end of a rope. If you consider it to be a huge improvement on a Maasdam Powr puller (rope hoist), you will probably put it in the right place.

I use ours to haul logs and brush up (or down) hills, and it is pretty good at pulling trees over too. Consider using a pulley on the end of a rope as a re-direct, thrown over a high branch to help lift the logs off the ground. Using a towable log dolly will really improve the load capacity, too.

They work particularly well in situations where you have a long run up a hill and the traction is poor. 500-1000 lb logs come skidding up the hill. Slowly, but surely. Not any slower, however, than much more powerful winches attached to truck bumpers or other hydraulic equipment. The capstan feature allows instant release.

Operation is a bit tedious unless you invent a throttle lock for the chainsaw. Idling...no rope movement.
Squeezing the trigger takes one hand, so you only have one hand left over to pull the capstan lead.
Two hands free or a 2nd man=regular progress with the rope winch.

No three man crew can haul logs up a steep hill as quickly or easily as the winch and proper rigging can. Because the line pull is not so great, a cheap 3/8" or 7/16" twist rope is perfect for this machine, especially if you are using extra pulleys to gain mechanical advantage.

It will never outperform a tractor or truck pulling logs. Those who have commented that it is too slow were not using it where it is well suited for the job. Use the right machine for each job.

I use a maasdam rope winch only when I cannot tolerate the risk of engine failure, where greater speed is not needed, or where the load must be held securely and there is no need for a rapid release.

yea how much would you want for it there bud i been looking for a winch to use around the farm

 

[pdqdl]

Ooops. I lied. I don't have a "Lewis" winch, I have a "Cobra" winch.

They seem to be very similar, and neither of them appears to have a reverse gear.

http://www.lewiswinch.com/The_Lewis_Winch.html

The Cobra winch (made by the LEE WINCH CO.) does not seem to appear for sale anywhere on the internet, so I presume they went out of business. The phone numbers shown on the label don't work, either. I found a Craigs listing for one, it looks to be in a little better condition than mine.

http://spokane.craigslist.org/tls/1541804772.html

I'll sell mine for $250.00 plus shipping. It weighs about 40lbs. I haven't tested the Homelite XL powerhead yet, either. Like I said, I don't use it anymore. I'll give it credit, it appears to be well built, as it is deceptively heavy.

 

[dh1984]

ok i'll see what i can come up with

 

[pdqdl]

Lewis, I think you have a vested interest. I'm not knocking your product, but a load binder does not solve all problems.

The capstan rope winches are not without problems, either. I don't know why they don't add a self-tailing feature. It's not like that would add much to the cost of the unit, and it would provide a much greater ease of use.

BTW: how come Lewis winch is not offered with a dyneema line? It would trim a nice chunk of weight off the device, and would be far less inclined to kink and birds-nest.

 

[Wilson_tree]

I have a capstan winch mounted on an old saw with throttle lock, a 100 foot & 200 ft rope, and a skid cone for the log. I can operate the winch by myself, move it anywhere, and move big loads. You just can't do it fast and it takes a lot of effort. It is a great tool for specific jobs, and I am very glad I have it when I need it. But I wouldn't want to skid multiple logs over 100 yards unless they were really valuable and I couldn't think of another way to get them. I use it a lot to bunch logs for the tractor. I winch logs out of sensitive areas or I get the log out of a tight spot without bumping valuable trees and I leave it for the tractor to hook up to as soon as I can.