Windfall Whips and Widowmakers, the Hazard's of Working in the Woods.

[Howsitgoineh]

Is that like the picket fence technique where the hung up tree breaks away and the cut pieces stay in the ground while you walk the stem up ever steeper angles (while hoping it'll finally drop out of its hangup before it goes vertical on you)?


View attachment 1160696

Essentially, yes - but wow where did you get that photo? That's nuts we'll do this and make a few cuts until we can dislodge the hang-up somewhat safely.. when is aid sketchy; every time you finish the cut, the tree "jumps" down to the next position, a little more vertical..
In most cases we will tie a pull rope before felling if we see a possibility of a hang up. Or, even better (if possible) - remove the tree that it's gonna hang up on first

 

[jblnut]

Although it is not a windfall whip or technically a widowmaker a potentially dangerous situation is a codominant tree. You always thing they can be cut together but it would likely end in disaster 99%+ of the time.

Like this nasty dead elm we tackled a few days back.


Very much two scrubby trees that grew together and if cut separately they’ll fall nicely away from each other.


I don’t have a great picture but I cut this stump chunk up into firewood lengths and the split was visible through the last few feet of the stump. If cut together you’d get into the face cut and your bar would get pinched and hopefully you’d see what was going on and reevaluate.

 

[Howsitgoineh]

Although it is not a windfall whip or technically a widowmaker a potentially dangerous situation is a codominant tree. You always thing they can be cut together but it would likely end in disaster 99%+ of the time.

Like this nasty dead elm we tackled a few days back.
View attachment 1160715

Very much two scrubby trees that grew together and if cut separately they’ll fall nicely away from each other.
View attachment 1160716

I don’t have a great picture but I cut this stump chunk up into firewood lengths and the split was visible through the last few feet of the stump. If cut together you’d get into the face cut and your bar would get pinched and hopefully you’d see what was going on and reevaluate.
View attachment 1160717

We've tackled a few similar trees - ash, elm, and beech with this unique growth pattern.

We often use a bore cut when felling, at the boss' instruction. We would do this in two fells also. Notch the trunk at the "front" then plunge in between or bore for the back cut. Then fell the next one.

You are fortunate to have had such a great landing zone, we're not always so lucky and often end up climbing rigging and chunking

 

[jblnut]

We've tackled a few similar trees - ash, elm, and beech with this unique growth pattern.

We often use a bore cut when felling, at the boss' instruction. We would do this in two fells also. Notch the trunk at the "front" then plunge in between or bore for the back cut. Then fell the next one.

You are fortunate to have had such a great landing zone, we're not always so lucky and often end up climbing rigging and chunking

We had a 1/2” wire rope tied to the base of an 18” red oak with a Bobcat 763 skiddy pulling the center of the rope in a perpendicular direction so the one side wouldn’t fall on his cattle working area. Took a bit of rigging to get it all right but it went off without any drama.

Plan plan plan and plan some more. Once chips are flying it’s too late to plan anymore.

I told him to get me a work platform I could abandon in a hurry if needed and he came back with a round bale. Perfect. I baled this bale and 95 of his buddies last summer and sold them to him so it was fun being reunited lol. It made a great work platform and we moved it for the second cut.

 

[Howsitgoineh]

We had a 1/2” wire trip tied to the base of an 18” red oak with a Bobcat 763 skiddy pulling the center of the rope in a perpendicular direction so the one side wouldn’t fall on his cattle working area. Took a bit of rigging to get it all right but it went off without any drama.

Plan plan plan and plan some more. Once chips are flying it’s too late to plan anymore.

I told him to get me a work platform I could abandon in a hurry if needed and he came back with a round bale. Perfect. I baled this bale and 95 of his buddies last summer and sold them to him so it was fun being reunited lol. It made a great work platform and we moved it for the second cut.
View attachment 1160727

That is awesome! I forgot to mention cutting high in cases like this is sometimes needed. I'll occasionally climb up only 5 or 6 feet to fell a tree when necessary. That bale sure came in handy! Great idea

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Underbuckers are just one more thing to carry and seem to have more of a home in the PNW where the trees are bigger. Crosscut sawyers who use their axe handles to underbuck don't pay enough attention to dressing the backs of their saws, which are often chipped and rusty and have a serrated edge effect on axe handles. A smooth saw spine will glide along an axe handle and not do much damage.


View attachment 1160695

Awsome post. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Kodiak Kid]

We had a 1/2” wire trip tied to the base of an 18” red oak with a Bobcat 763 skiddy pulling the center of the rope in a perpendicular direction so the one side wouldn’t fall on his cattle working area. Took a bit of rigging to get it all right but it went off without any drama.

Plan plan plan and plan some more. Once chips are flying it’s too late to plan anymore.

I told him to get me a work platform I could abandon in a hurry if needed and he came back with a round bale. Perfect. I baled this bale and 95 of his buddies last summer and sold them to him so it was fun being reunited lol. It made a great work platform and we moved it for the second cut.
View attachment 1160727

That is awesome! I forgot to mention cutting high in cases like this is sometimes needed. I'll occasionally climb up only 5 or 6 feet to fell a tree when necessary. That bale sure came in handy! Great idea

Stacking pallets works well too. I've done that. I also lay a sheet of plywood across the top of the stack as to not slip or trip between the pallet boards.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Is that like the picket fence technique where the hung up tree breaks away and the cut pieces stay in the ground while you walk the stem up ever steeper angles (while hoping it'll finally drop out of its hangup before it goes vertical on you)?


View attachment 1160696

Yes, fence posting. I've cut hangers down like that as a last resort many times. Sometimes it's the only option!

 

[AT sawyer]

Essentially, yes - but wow where did you get that photo? That's nuts we'll do this and make a few cuts until we can dislodge the hang-up somewhat safely.. when is aid sketchy; every time you finish the cut, the tree "jumps" down to the next position, a little more vertical..
In most cases we will tie a pull rope before felling if we see a possibility of a hang up. Or, even better (if possible) - remove the tree that it's gonna hang up on first

That was one I took down after a storm. It was hung up from the get go and I finally had to rig a Maasdam and a couple blocks to pull it free. Chunking out all those pieces made it easier to pull it loose.

 

[Long Bar 60]

We call that fence posting. Had to do that on a 4+ foot diameter tree once. Kinda creepy. And time consuming.

 

[Shaner418]

I had an employee get killed back in 1991. Somewhere back in that era I had a log shift while at the same time I lost my footing and ended up pinned under the log with a broken femur. A couple of things I learned from that one- breaking a femur really hurts. And for a long time. And morphine really kills pain.
I could write a book on logging injuries.
I'm 65 years old and have worn out my knees so I got the left one replaced on 10-24-23 and the right one 2 months ago yesterday. Skied for 2 hours yesterday. Have I ever mentioned? I'm stupid. LOL

My uncle just had his knees replaced at 64. He’s doing all the things again and I cannot believe how his walking has improved. No more hobbling around. I am 50 and suspect my knees are becoming worn out. I am doing all I can to off set this . Any words of wisdom for us younger dudes?

 

[Howsitgoineh]

Yes, fence posting. I've cut hangers down like that as a last resort many times. Sometimes it's the only option!

Hey brother, what's the best way to cook bear meat? (In your opinion)

 

[Trailsawyer]

My uncle just had his knees replaced at 64. He’s doing all the things again and I cannot believe how his walking has improved. No more hobbling around. I am 50 and suspect my knees are becoming worn out. I am doing all I can to off set this . Any words of wisdom for us younger dudes?

At 76, I've only had one knee replaced, but the other one should be also.
Dirt bikes and horses are probably the biggest contributors to my knee problems, but also some of my fondest memories!!
Do the things you enjoy while you can!

 

[Howsitgoineh]

At 76, I've only had one knee replaced, but the other one should be also.
Dirt bikes are probably the biggest contributor to my knee problems, but also some of my fondest memories!!
Do the things you enjoy while you can!

Advice to live by my friend. I like climbing and cutting trees more than anything else, except maybe playing and singing tunes for my family and friends at the bar or around the fire

You only live once good sir, and we sure don't reminisce about things we didn't get to do

 

[Long Bar 60]

My uncle just had his knees replaced at 64. He’s doing all the things again and I cannot believe how his walking has improved. No more hobbling around. I am 50 and suspect my knees are becoming worn out. I am doing all I can to off set this . Any words of wisdom for us younger dudes?

Yes, get a really good orthopedic to begin with. My surgeon is one of the US Ski Team doctors and they know knees. Try to find one that does stem cell injections and see if you're a candidate. They take the stem cells out of your own body and it will regrow cartilage which is one of the primary knee problems (meniscus). Also, for arthritis there's a tone of supplements, meds and dietary things that really helped me a lot. And stay active if you can. I barely cut any timber the last two seasons because my knees wouldn't let me get out of the way fast enough but I was able to run a Wood Mizer mill instead and that kept me moving until I could get new knees. Be safe!

 

[ChuckMI]

My uncle just had his knees replaced at 64. He’s doing all the things again and I cannot believe how his walking has improved. No more hobbling around. I am 50 and suspect my knees are becoming worn out. I am doing all I can to off set this . Any words of wisdom for us younger dudes?

I've been taking Glucosamine chondroitin for more than 20 years. It won't hurt and it might help.

 

[madhatte]

We call that fence posting. Had to do that on a 4+ foot diameter tree once. Kinda creepy. And time consuming.

"Fence Posting" is a new one on me. I know that as a snap cut.

 

[AT sawyer]

"Fence Posting" is a new one on me. I know that as a snap cut.

I always thought of a snap cut as an undercut followed by a top cut to finish AND the cut piece would fall to the ground away from the main stem. The fence posting leaves a series of cut pieces stuck in the ground while walking back the main stem.

I think of this video as more of a snap cut. Since I use a crosscut saw, things happen slower. First you see the piece sag a little as the bottom cut closes and the hinge holds, then it snaps off and away from the rest of the tree.

 

[Long Bar 60]

I couldn't figure out why all the talk in this thread about cross cut saws in the woods (?) I forgot about trail and fire crews in Wilderness Areas and other places where internal combustion engines are prohibited. Thanks for refreshing my memory! I bought my first chainsaw when I was 15. Before that I did all my cutting with small cross cut saws. Thank you all for the memories!

 

[madhatte]

I always thought of a snap cut as an undercut followed by a top cut to finish AND the cut piece would fall to the ground away from the main stem. The fence posting leaves a series of cut pieces stuck in the ground while walking back the main stem.

I think of this video as more of a snap cut. Since I use a crosscut saw, things happen slower. First you see the piece sag a little as the bottom cut closes and the hinge holds, then it snaps off and away from the rest of the tree.

See, I have never heard that one called anything. Must be a regional difference!