Wood-Burning Vehicles?

[Patrick62]

Pat - I guarantee you that "earth first schmucks" don't run the government around here. We are nearly ALL interested in environmental quality.

From what I understand a decent wood gas generator would produce almost no air pollution and would therefore be an environmental plus.

Sounds like you have some experience with the creatures and your comments on engine wear deserve attention. How serious is it?

I tried to look up the Woodmizer Bio-Mizer product but they have taken all their information about it off their web site.

I have a old article around here on the matter, I can dig it up, if necessary.
It is the acids in the mix that harm the engine. It is also quite difficult to filter them out. Most of the fuel is carbon monoxide, and is mixed with air at aprox 50/50 ratio. This is adjustable while in operation. If I recall, the engine would last about 10,000 miles. Perhaps we can build a better filter system today.

I think the emissions would be quite interesting. When the vehicle is stopped, and the lid is opened to keep the fire smoldering... smoke.

Then when running, I suppose that the engine would burn it fairly cleanly, but there would be some normal combustion products (forget your cat conv. that thing would be jammed with tar). Too lean, it backfires into the intake. Too rich, and it loses power. Different mixture is required for different loads and speeds. By now it is probably possible to rig a computer to do the major adjustments and adjust things for best results and alert the operator when it is time to stir the pot, so to speak.

It was mentioned that hardwoods worked better, and I really, really like the idea of using pellets! Excellent idea!!!! Hmmm..... I got this old truck out here. Little conversion.... ideas....

-Pat:monkey:

 

[oldchuck]

Thank you Pat. I have a diesel engine out of an older Ford Ranger that I am thinking about using to run a generator fueled by wood gas. Any thoughts you might have about doing it well are much appreciated.

You mention acids. Maybe you could elaborate.

 

[KsWoodsMan]

I have a old article around here on the matter, I can dig it up, if necessary.
It is the acids in the mix that harm the engine. It is also quite difficult to filter them out. Most of the fuel is carbon monoxide, and is mixed with air at aprox 50/50 ratio. This is adjustable while in operation. If I recall, the engine would last about 10,000 miles. Perhaps we can build a better filter system today.

I think the emissions would be quite interesting. When the vehicle is stopped, and the lid is opened to keep the fire smoldering... smoke.

Then when running, I suppose that the engine would burn it fairly cleanly, but there would be some normal combustion products (forget your cat conv. that thing would be jammed with tar). Too lean, it backfires into the intake. Too rich, and it loses power. Different mixture is required for different loads and speeds. By now it is probably possible to rig a computer to do the major adjustments and adjust things for best results and alert the operator when it is time to stir the pot, so to speak.

It was mentioned that hardwoods worked better, and I really, really like the idea of using pellets! Excellent idea!!!! Hmmm..... I got this old truck out here. Little conversion.... ideas....

-Pat:monkey:

I can't argue about the acids causing problems using a dry system but proper filtering of the producer gas should cure the problem of ash being drug in with the motor causing ring wear. There should be sufficient technologies now with higher temp filters than were available in the 1940's to reduce the ash content. Fiberglass filters should work well up to about 300* C. Where as the cloth filters available 60 years ago were good to about 70* C. A cyclone and a series of 3-4 furnace filters should handle the flow fairly well for a 300 HP engine. Incorporate with that a water bubbler to cool the gasses and remove the acids from the stream and it shouldnr do the engine any more harm than running it on fossil fuel.

I would seriously consider putting one to practical use on a diesel engine. Idling would be controlled by the norrmally associated hardware, pump and injectors, and add a hand throttle to control the flow of the producer gas. One limitation of roducer gass id the speed it burns at, which limits your RPM to about 2500 RPM. More than this and the output power falls off rapidly.

Diesel here has reached $4.75 a gallon and I have been asked to look into the possibility of viable alternatives for farm-use by several members of my family.
It might not be as convenient as pouring fuel in the tank but if it keeps equipment moving or helps cut the cost of producing grain or carrying feed to cattle or catle to market for some of us , I'm for it. It was do-able 60 years ago, it should be, still, today.

 

[Backwoods]

Lets not for get that there may even be a high quality metal alloy that can with stand the acids.
A hybrid may be the answer.
There are several wood burning furnaces that have passes the emissions test, saving you that hassle.
Having a wood fired generator could lessen your demand on the grid as well as power small equipment.
There seems to be quite a bit of knowledge here on the subject to bounce off one another, work the kinks out so to speak.

 

[oldchuck]

Please, keep making suggestions. I'm taking notes.

 

[Patrick62]

More thoughts

I think a diesel engine would better serve running on vegetable oil. Not to mention that I would be a little skittish about sending some questionable fuel down a expensive engine.

Better filtering would help clean up the stuff so that engine wear would be reduced. I will find that article in a few days, and then can quote what they had to say about it.

"sir, your car is on fire"
No duh.... it runs on wood.


-Pat

 

[oldchuck]

Vermont grows rocks and trees very well. Other things not so good. We have about 300 acres of hardwood and almost no grass and no option for growing oil seed. I like biodiesel but I've got trees.

My idea is to run a good sized generator with a stationary engine. Wood gas seems like my best option. Use the electricity to run a small sawmill and charge battery powered vehicles. Still very much in the preliminary planning stages.

 

[ken45]

Vermont grows rocks and trees very well. Other things not so good. We have about 300 acres of hardwood and almost no grass and no option for growing oil seed. I like biodiesel but I've got trees.

My idea is to run a good sized generator with a stationary engine. Wood gas seems like my best option. Use the electricity to run a small sawmill and charge battery powered vehicles. Still very much in the preliminary planning stages.

If you want to use cordwood for a stationary engine, what about a steam turbine?

Ken

 

[oldchuck]

I've thought about a steam turbine. Haven't really looked into it. What do you think the advantage might be?

Let's see if I can do this right. This is pretty cool.

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Guy built a pretty professional looking generator but it sure looks clumsy sitting in the back of a pick up. Comes from this thread over on the Forestry forum:

Hmm. How do I get a link to copy?

 

[max2cam]

I'm having a hard time figuring a practical use for producer wood gas.

I have a backup generator for my 12 volt home PV-Battery electrical system, but the amount of gas I use (Dec.& Jan.) is very small. And the time and effort to fire a gas-producer would seem not worth the effort.

On the other hand, I have unlimited amounts of wood waste lying around everywhere that can simply be raked up and is finely divided like I think the gas producer likes. You wouldn't even need to process it much. A wood-burning car would be fun to show-off with, but how practical would it actually be?

In theory at least with a gas-producer engine & pump you could pump water up into a HUGE tank (I have a hill behind my house) and then use gravity to let it run downhill to propell a small hydro-generator to produce electricity. But even with that the season that I need the electricity most is during the freezing months when such a wood-gas hydro-electric system would freeze solid.

 

[ken45]

I've thought about a steam turbine. Haven't really looked into it. What do you think the advantage might be?

Well it separates the combustion products from the "engine" itself, getting around the concerns about filtering and impurities damaging the engine. It's also well developed technology. OTOH, it may be more expensive than a gas system.

Ken

 

[Patrick62]

Steam

A well designed steam engine would be quite efficient. The tricky part is controls. Genny calls for more power, valves open more steam, boiler senses lack of pressure turns up the fan on the blower, etc. Fun part is that boilers have a nasty tendency to explode. People get nervous when that happens.

In terms of running a diesel on vegetable oil, With a little processing you can run Waste Vegetable Oil sucked right out of the fryer at McDonalds.
So it smells like a french fry going down the street. But it is moving....

I will keep thinking about producer gas....

-Pat