working alone

[beowulf343]

Monday I hired a new guy. Was supposed to be two, one didn't show. #1 did OK.

Tuesday I had a contract climb for another company, didn't use new guy.

Wednesday he worked out OK.

Thursday was 93 & hot, he called in 'sick'.

Friday he got all brush compiled from my work yesterday, I was in a tree, he went to start the chipper, but failed to turn the switch back once the motor had started, keeping the starter engaged, horrible grinding, on and on, I'm screaming, shaking the crown, FINALLY, 40 seconds later, each second an eternity, as the teeth are peeling off the starter spindle the grinding lessens and then he lets off the key. By now my hair is standing on end and I'm about to puke.

I hear the chipper now begin to rev up. It goes up a ways, and then comes down to an idle. I think, he's raking scrapple first, I hear the chipping commence, but the machine is still at an idle. It's chipping, but more because the knives are razor sharp. Is he going to throttle up?

"Hey.... hallooooooo...... Chipper guy,..... HEY!!!"
OMG, is it possible that three days into his working with me he all of a sudden forgot everything he's been shown and has demonstrated?

"HEEEEEEEEYYYYYYY!!!! Stop feeding THE CHIPPER!"

By now I can sense that there's not enough throw to expel the chips and they are depositing and filling the far end of the outfeed chute. I am screaming at the top of my lungs. A concerned passerby runs up as I'm screaming and shaking the canopy violently so as to get the worker's attention.

"Are you OK?" she yells up. "I'm trying to get him to shut down the chipper, which right about that time the infeed chute has filled completely, the spinning chipper disc slows as it begins to fill with material, and the oblivious chipper guy keeps on feeding right until the disc can no longer spin and a knife chops into the butt end of an incoming limb and it stops. It is over.

But is it?

no, it is not.

No, this saga has just begun, but I will spare you with the lost afternoon income and getting a new starter installed on Saturday when I should have been attending Indiana's Tree Climbing Championship. Then after shelling out a bunch of money, I got to go back and finish the cleanup by myself.

So I ask you. Is this extreme, or is this typical? It is what it is, or I should say it was what it was, I'm only one day out from that train wreck, working alone, again, not really wanting to, but I made the ultimate mistake. I hire someone because they needed work, not because I needed them so much. I'm done whining.

First time i've ever lost respect for you, tree machine. New groundies are dumb. They are like babies that need to be taught. Not all of them have the same brain capacity. So you are just throwing this guy out. You saw he was having trouble right from the start, get out of the tree and go over the stuff again.
I wonder if you look at groundies differently than me-for you they are just an evil needed until things slow down again and you can go back to solo love. For me every new groundie is someone i may be spending years working with and trusting my life to, so i go over and over and over the things he needs to know until he gets it, because in the future his knowledge will make my life easier.
To sum up, i'm blaming you for your groundie's failure in this instance.


Heck, i almost had the same thing happen my first day on the job. I was even raised around heavy equipment, but was in a hurry to make the climber happy and went to start chipping without throttling up. Fortunately the climber was standing there with a piece of brush and gave me a stupid smile. Only time i made that mistake.

 

[pdqdl]

Monday I hired a new guy...

... I got to go back and finish the cleanup by myself.

So I ask you. Is this extreme, or is this typical?

Yes. Your experience is completely typical, at least from my perspective.

He had only two days of work on the job, but how much of that time was spent in dragging brush, and how much was spent being closely supervised and trained?

I have had many of the same experiences, and I can only offer this advice: These guys were out of work when you hired them. You need to find out for certain what their flaws are that kept them from having a better job than working for you before they crossed your path.

Until you can confirm that they are really skilled and reliable in all the areas that you need, you should not trust them to do a job unsupervised. Once you have gotten them trained in each new skill, you need to continue to monitor until they show that they can really deliver the goods.

I'm not offering any criticism here, since I continue to make the same mistake daily. I also continue to pay for it every day.

BTW: get a better chipper. Hydraulic feed motors with automatic controls prevent plugging up and over-feeding. While they are not completely fool-proof, I'll never go back to a chuck-'n-duck. Especially if you are working alone, you need better equipment to make better money.

 

[bayard]

solo

tree machine,that was well written and well thought out.that is why there is a different way to do anything in life. k

 

[jefflovstrom]

New guys are closely supervised and after 3 months, evaluated.
Jeff

 

[treeclimber101]

New guys can truly #### some #### up quick no question but it sounds a bit dangerous in your case to even that guy near power tools and the chipper hell no ..Sounds like he needs to demoted back to the drive thru ..

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm sorry I spilled that on you guys.

Yes it was my fault. Anything that gets broken or lost is my fault. If anyone gets hurt on my site, it is my fault. It doesn't matter what it is, the boss is responsible pretty much no matter what, isn't that true?

My chipper is not a chuck and duck. It's got hydraulic feed motors and automatic controls, it does not even have a clutch to engage. It is one of the easiest, user-friendly chippers I have ever used, but it does not throttle up by itself. Key on, throttle up, really that's all that is needed to successfully feed brush.


I did not fire the guy. The line was, "Oh, by the way, I have a new job that starts Monday." I wished him good luck.

I still need a helper, but honestly, I'm intimidated.


There are two reasons I hire; make more money or have more free time. I'll be happy with just one of those two, but if the expense and the liability and the risk and hassle are outweighing the benefits, I have a hard time convincing myself I need an employee. Yet, I know I do.

 

[tree md]

I never turned a new guy loose on the chipper. It has been so long since I have not had an experienced ground guy but when I got a new chipper a few years back I would start it and run it at operating RPMs and not let even my most trusted groundy touch it. I was the only one to operate it for about two weeks and then I relinquished a little bit.

Here's the deal, A climber can just about always climb to the points he needs to, cut small and pitch stuff where it needs to go. I find that to be slow work. I like to go big and use my guys. Much more efficient that way. Plus, I care about my guys welfare and want to keep them working. I sat back today and watched my main groundy run the saw and just smiled to myself.

Really it comes down to quarterbacking the whole deal and sometimes you have to take one for the team... Meaning that sometimes you have to give till it hurts. I had to sub climb two jobs last month for little money. My groundy had some hefty bills to pay. I could go on for days about grooming a groundy but the best advice I could give is when you find a good one treat him right.

Anyway, I have a lot of respect for a lot of you guys around here who are working on your own. I would never be presumptuous enough to try and tell you how to run your operation. A lot of you have obviously been resourceful enough to have made it on your own and be successful for years. To tell the truth I wouldn't mind working on my own sometimes... Some days I can't wait to get in the top of the tree to get some peace and quiet...

 

[ropensaddle]

I never turned a new guy loose on the chipper. It has been so long since I have not had an experienced ground guy but when I got a new chipper a few years back I would start it and run it at operating RPMs and not let even my most trusted groundy touch it. I was the only one to operate it for about two weeks and then I relinquished a little bit.

Here's the deal, A climber can just about always climb to the points he needs to, cut small and pitch stuff where it needs to go. I find that to be slow work. I like to go big and use my guys. Much more efficient that way. Plus, I care about my guys welfare and want to keep them working. I sat back today and watched my main groundy run the saw and just smiled to myself.

Really it comes down to quarterbacking the whole deal and sometimes you have to take one for the team... Meaning that sometimes you have to give till it hurts. I had to sub climb two jobs last month for little money. My groundy had some hefty bills to pay. I could go on for days about grooming a groundy but the best advice I could give is when you find a good one treat him right.

Anyway, I have a lot of respect for a lot of you guys around here who are working on your own. I would never be presumptuous enough to try and tell you how to run your operation. A lot of you have obviously been resourceful enough to have made it on your own and be successful for years. To tell the truth I wouldn't mind working on my own sometimes... Some days I can't wait to get in the top of the tree to get some peace and quiet...

B I N go and bingo was his na mo. It is all the years of hearing constant

 

[Tree Machine]

It's certainly a tradeoff.

I get the quarterbacking thing, and that's a great analogy.


Here's another, I saw this on one of those inspirational posters, it goes.

Do not tell an employee how to do something. Tell them what to do, and be amazed at their resourcefulness.

I spent the first thirty hours of our week instructing on the 'hows', how to stack brush and how to run the chipper. That is all I have for a guy. We were ona technical one over a house and deck, I was rigging and lowering, all he does is unclip a caribiner. No saw. No nothing except stack and drag brush, and chip it. I thought thirty hours of paid training was enough, but based on results, I've got a lot to learn.

However, I did tell him what to do, and I have to say I was amazed, not at the resourcefulness, but truly amazed on some level.

I feel like maybe I have forgotten how to work with someone, or maybe it's hard enough for me to think for myself, I choke when I have to think for two.

There's lots of great help, I just happen to pick up whoever comes across the path. Is it because I assume everybody as temporary? I mean, who wants to make a career out of stacking and chipping brush? I don't have a clue about these things.

 

[treeclimber101]

I'm sorry I spilled that on you guys.

Yes it was my fault. Anything that gets broken or lost is my fault. If anyone gets hurt on my site, it is my fault. It doesn't matter what it is, the boss is responsible pretty much no matter what, isn't that true?

My chipper is not a chuck and duck. It's got hydraulic feed motors and automatic controls, it does not even have a clutch to engage. It is one of the easiest, user-friendly chippers I have ever used, but it does not throttle up by itself. Key on, throttle up, really that's all that is needed to successfully feed brush.


I did not fire the guy. The line was, "Oh, by the way, I have a new job that starts Monday." I wished him good luck.

I still need a helper, but honestly, I'm intimidated.


There are two reasons I hire; make more money or have more free time. I'll be happy with just one of those two, but if the expense and the liability and the risk and hassle are outweighing the benefits, I have a hard time convincing myself I need an employee. Yet, I know I do.

No offense but the biggest risk is your safety , the hell with the equipment that can be replaced , you should never climb alone , there are so many different scenarios that could cost you your health and maybe your life .. I am proof of that , I had to be brought down five years ago after opening my forearm so bad that I passed out in the tree , if my guys didn't see what mistake I made so quickly I would have certainly bled out and died .. I lost control of that situation so quickly that everything I thought I knew meant nothing , if anything hire someone to keep an eye on you ..

 

[tree MDS]

No offense but the biggest risk is your safety , the hell with the equipment that can be replaced , you should never climb alone , there are so many different scenarios that could cost you your health and maybe your life .. I am proof of that , I had to be brought down five years ago after opening my forearm so bad that I passed out in the tree , if my guys didn't see what mistake I made so quickly I would have certainly bled out and died .. I lost control of that situation so quickly that everything I thought I knew meant nothing , if anything hire someone to keep an eye on you ..

That sounds horrible.. thanks for sharing and good point though.

Glad you're ok.

 

[tree MDS]

It's certainly a tradeoff.

I get the quarterbacking thing, and that's a great analogy.


Here's another, I saw this on one of those inspirational posters, it goes.

Do not tell an employee how to do something. Tell them what to do, and be amazed at their resourcefulness.

I spent the first thirty hours of our week instructing on the 'hows', how to stack brush and how to run the chipper. That is all I have for a guy. We were ona technical one over a house and deck, I was rigging and lowering, all he does is unclip a caribiner. No saw. No nothing except stack and drag brush, and chip it. I thought thirty hours of paid training was enough, but based on results, I've got a lot to learn.

However, I did tell him what to do, and I have to say I was amazed, not at the resourcefulness, but truly amazed on some level.

I feel like maybe I have forgotten how to work with someone, or maybe it's hard enough for me to think for myself, I choke when I have to think for two.

There's lots of great help, I just happen to pick up whoever comes across the path. Is it because I assume everybody as temporary? I mean, who wants to make a career out of stacking and chipping brush? I don't have a clue about these things.

Sometimes I wonder if I've just been trapped in the field too long.. I have to stop and think, is it really fair to expect these guys to be on the same page as me with everything, when it's actually only a relatively short while that they've been at it.

When I was learning early on, it was on a bigger crew, and we all had the chance to screw some stuff up.. but at least I learned from it. I'm guessing you are like me in this respect, and don't really give anyone the opportunity to screw much up.. would rather do it yourself. This is good and bad..

 

[treeclimber101]

That sounds horrible.. thanks for sharing and good point though.

Glad you're ok.

And when and if I hire new guys I always ask if they are willing to learn to climb and not so much for cutting but in the rare instance that there is a climber that gets hurt and needs assistance , I put very little into the FD rescuing myself or one of my guys they are often untrained and or just plain slow ..There are 2 types of climbers ones that have been hurt and ones that will get hurt one day .

 

[treeclimber101]

Sometimes I wonder if I've just been trapped in the field too long.. I have to stop and think, is it really fair to expect these guys to be on the same page as me with everything, when it's actually only a relatively short while that they've been at it.

When I was learning early on, it was on a bigger crew, and we all had the chance to screw some stuff up.. but at least I learned from it. I'm guessing you are like me in this respect, and don't really give anyone the opportunity to screw much up.. would rather do it yourself. This is good and bad..

I was treated poorly by pretty all my bosses until I turned 25 but I always wanted to do better after being yelled at and rarely took criticism to heart , now you scream and they pout and quit , my little punk of a brother has quit on me at least 5 times ...

 

[jefflovstrom]

Cal-OSHA requires a climber trained in aerial rescue to be on-site when-ever a climber goes above 14 feet. No-one climbs alone, period!
Jeff

 

[ropensaddle]

Cal-OSHA requires a climber trained in aerial rescue to be on-site when-ever a climber goes above 14 feet. No-one climbs alone, period!
Jeff

Well there is one at my site:monkey:

 

[beowulf343]

There's lots of great help, I just happen to pick up whoever comes across the path. Is it because I assume everybody as temporary? I mean, who wants to make a career out of stacking and chipping brush? I don't have a clue about these things.

You are right, no one is going to make a career out of it at minimum wage. This may fly in the face of conventional thinking, but my boss pays a living wage and is able to keep career groundies. His favorite hires are guys in their late twenties to early thirties, married with a couple kids-these guys are often ready to get a full time job to buy a house or support the kids and the wife is there to help get them out the door in the mornings if need be.
We've got a little over sixty groundpeople right now, half of which have been with the company as a groundie for more than ten years. Heck, my two guys have both been there over twenty years. If you think alone climbing is good, try doing it with almost fifty years of experience under you-we've been together almost a decade now and i swear sometimes those guys are psychic. And oddly enough, the boss is willing to shell out extra for a good groundie because it's extra incentive for his climbers and bucket guys to stay with the outfit-i know i'd rather work with my two guys than go elsewhere and get who know what.
Anyway, yes there are people who are willing to make a career as a groundie-guys make a living sucking #### and pulling brush has got to be better than that. But, not to sound arrogant, we make huge bucks so the boss can afford the extra. You are probably going to get stuck with the rejects.

 

[tree MDS]

I was treated poorly by pretty all my bosses until I turned 25 but I always wanted to do better after being yelled at and rarely took criticism to heart , now you scream and they pout and quit , my little punk of a brother has quit on me at least 5 times ...

It's no small feat to survive the entry level, and actually become proficient at this work.. looking back, it wasn't easy (youth was on my side thankfully) and it certainly wasn't all my own doing. Many friends/good teachers along the way - and still learning, of course!

... but yeah, the ability to take a good cussing certainly helped.. thing was, my dumb ass worked/tried so hard, they usually felt bad lacing into me too hard.

 

[pdqdl]

...

My chipper is not a chuck and duck. It's got hydraulic feed motors and automatic controls, it does not even have a clutch to engage. It is one of the easiest, user-friendly chippers I have ever used, but it does not throttle up by itself. Key on, throttle up, really that's all that is needed to successfully feed brush.

That's too bad your newbie screwed it up. I hope you only ate the starter gear, and not the whole flywheel ring gear. That would really suck.

I guess I would have presumed it was safe from plugging up, too. My Bandit 200 will not engage the feed rollers until the engine is up to speed. I thought that all hydraulic feed chippers worked that way; apparently not, eh?

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Cal-OSHA requires a climber trained in aerial rescue to be on-site when-ever a climber goes above 14 feet. No-one climbs alone, period!
Jeff

Got a question for you and OSHA.

Who's there to save the savior?