working alone

[himiler]

Dancin Yeah!

Think I've figured out this groundie issue.
1. Start with one of those cheap can of compressed air horns for a boat to get his attention when you're up in a tree. Beats yelling and shaking the branches to get him to look up.
2. If that doesn't work, then try one of those shock collars that dog trainers use for their hunting dogs. Start with a short zap for getting his attention, medium duration zaps for correcting first time mistakes, and save the really long zaps for what you told him about several times before and he's in need of a reminder.
If you look down and find him jumpin around like a monkey, might be you put the zapper in your back pocket and you're sittin on it.
Just tryin to be helpful.
Steve W.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Think I've figured out this groundie issue.
1. Start with one of those cheap can of compressed air horns for a boat to get his attention when you're up in a tree. Beats yelling and shaking the branches to get him to look up.
2. If that doesn't work, then try one of those shock collars that dog trainers use for their hunting dogs. Start with a short zap for getting his attention, medium duration zaps for correcting first time mistakes, and save the really long zaps for what you told him about several times before and he's in need of a reminder.
If you look down and find him jumpin around like a monkey, might be you put the zapper in your back pocket and you're sittin on it.
Just tryin to be helpful.
Steve W.

Instead of saying you are an Idiot, I will say that is dumb advice. There is a joke room in ' Off the Topic', go there.
Jeff

 

[Tree Machine]

The shock collar would be good. I suppose, in all fairness the climber should get one, too. A deterrent to us doing stupid things.

 

[ropensaddle]

The shock collar would be good. I suppose, in all fairness the climber should get one, too. A deterrent to us doing stupid things.

I think all our politicians should have shock collars set up with most severe setting based on public support.

 

[ozzy42]

I think all our politicians should have shock collars set up with most severe setting based on public support.

Amen brother.
We have enough members here to supply every member of both houses with one.

I call dibs on pelousies.
Bet I could straighten out some of those tourtise wrinkles on her in a week,,,,,,,,well,,,,,,,maybe longer but I'll do the best I can.

 

[himiler]

Instead of saying you are an Idiot, I will say that is dumb advice. There is a joke room in ' Off the Topic', go there.
Jeff

Guess my point was lost in the "humor". I'll try to make it a bit more obvious.
Seems like the problem was not only in the new groundie's lack of experience, but also his awareness. Anything to get his attention would be better than yelling at the top of your lungs and shaking a tree while your equipment is being destroyed. You know, a whistle, air horn, even a cell phone on the vibrate setting in his pocket. Whatever it takes that's effective in getting him to look up at you.
Jeff, ease up and look a bit before you pass judgement. Yea, I was trying to make it funny, but idiot?
Steve W.

 

[jefflovstrom]

;

Jeff, ease up and look a bit before you pass judgement. Yea, I was trying to make it funny, but idiot?
Steve W.

Sorry, did not know you were joking.
Jeff

 

[himiler]

That's cool Jeff. Apologizing in public makes you twice the man in my eyes. Now if I could just figure out how to rep ya.
Steve W.

 

[treeclimber101]

All 12...that's a perfect amount of disciples for the OHSA religion. Surely that's an accident right? You didn't assemble exactly 12 on purpose, did you? Better keep on close eye on Judas.

Nevertheless, not everyone has 12 grade A certified OSHA regulated monkeys on hand. That is great and all, I'm almost sure that you could perform a rescue with 12 of these men handy. But could you image the horror of the 12th man when he realizes that he has reached 14 foot......ALONE. Could he do it? Could he still accomplish the rescue.....ALONE?

The point that you are missing on purpose is a simple one. Howbeit, one that neither you, nor the 12, nor OSHA, nor any other self important acronym can afford to recognize. It is the elephant in the room, as they say.

Once the rescue climber passes 14 foot he is in violation of the standard that requires him in the first place. It's a catch 22. One that I'm almost sure 12 men can handle, but like I said, not everyone has 12.

For the typical crew, one extra rescue climber is all they got at best, and all that is "required." Do I think he should go when needed, yes, naturally, when the situation is safe. However, he now has to realize that there is no one to save him and work accordingly.

It's an emergency, so now he has got the OHSA blessing to work alone...er..I mean..climb above 14 foot without a rescue climber on the ground. We can debate about whether or not it is safer to rescue climb than to work the tree, but something can still go wrong. Now what? Where is the acronymic flip chart answer for that? Call the fire department to rescue the two victims you now have?

Overall, the same mindset and practices one must have to work alone, should be employed whether you're working alone or not. It is especially important for the rescue climber, he now has two lives on the line, with the clock ticking, and often times, no one to bail him out of a jam.

I think it is good to have a second climber, but I find that a requirement of such by OSHA to be in conflict with itself, in principle, and as potentially dangerous, if not more, as the problem it is trying to “solve.” It's a good recommendation in general, but to make it law, and to preach it like a gospel solution, is just self important self serving nonsense. Typical.

I don't climb alone much, but I climb as though I am. And I don't require someone come fetch me either. So if you do, its on you, and I might be grateful later, but it's of your generosity, not my requirement.

Thats hardly jeffs point I believe , it is more a benchmark set forth for the protection of the employee ,and I would venture to say that there would not be one person citing the rescuer with any fine but instead recognize the selfless attempt at helping another both with his training and quick response , and frankly your last sentence really is so far off base that if I helped you out of a situation and you said that to me I would certainly probably punch you in the mouth ,really the nerve

 

[jefflovstrom]

Thanks for the nice words Steve W., I am not looking for a rep, unless they have an 'a s s h o l e rep'!
Hey 101!, You got it. I am not gonna play the 'what if game'. Of 12 guys, 8 are climbers. 4 are groundies. Trained in ' aerial rescue' means just that. The ' Catch 22' thru me off a little until you posted.
Jeff

 

[pdqdl]

I think all our politicians should have shock collars set up with most severe setting based on public support.

Not necessary. Just make it hit them with a serious jolt every time they vote yes for wasteful legislation.

Tazer hits for 5 minutes should be enough to straighten all the problems out.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Thats hardly jeffs point I believe , it is more a benchmark set forth for the protection of the employee ,and I would venture to say that there would not be one person citing the rescuer with any fine but instead recognize the selfless attempt at helping another both with his training and quick response , and frankly your last sentence really is so far off base that if I helped you out of a situation and you said that to me I would certainly probably punch you in the mouth ,really the nerve

I get it. Jeff's point is osha's point. And I do admit to having a little fun with Jeff’s 12. It was a perfect number. Nothing against Jeff, but it was funny to me. First he comes down with the osha req, and then he's like, we've got 12 certified. I mean that's good and all, really, but seriously, it was funny how it came across especially in light of the subject matter in general. It's like: OSHA HAS SPOKEN! This must be the part where we sing hymns and put our hard earned money in the plate.

I think you're missing my point. Allow me an attempt to clarify. I'm not talking about citing anyone. I'm all for rescue climbers, their very existence, and manifold "blessings," makes my general point about working alone, and what it takes to do so safely, for me. That's the topic of this thread....or was anyway.lol. Sometimes still is.

I'm simply making light of a osha req, and those that preach it as salvation, how it contradicts itself, and how that truly promotes, and if successful, demonstrates, the same principles it seeks to protect us from....working alone, or climbing alone, specifically in this case.

To put it in bare bones English, the minute the rescue climber is needed, he is climbing alone, or without at least a climber to cover his butt. Unless there are 12 waiting in line, naturally. Some might need 12.

Nevertheless, all poking fun aside, it's a high calling to head up after a down man, but that in itself doesn't grant immunity. There is still a risk, if not an amplified one, no pun intended. And then there is more on the line than just yourself. It is a very selfless act, but that doesn't always make it a smart one, nor guarantee success.

That being said, and in the current situations I might find myself climbing, (again, no pun intended) I don't require anyone to come up after me. If you do, it is on you, you are on your own....literally. Keep that at about the top of your mind, and work accordingly, or don't bother coming. I would not want another man to risk everything to save me from my screw-up, or otherwise bad luck.

However, if you are going to do it, do it from your heart, out of generosity.....NOT because osha, neither because their deacons, told you to. Not out of a sense of duty, nor heroism. Do it for you, do it for me, but be certain you can do it safely.

If I wake up alive, I will thank you...and I'll mean it. I might cuss you for it, and you might pop me in the mouth, but I'll still thank you. I might even thank you for popping me in the mouth. I'm a pretty good sport and take fairly well to pop knots, though it is certainly better to give, than to receive.

If I wake up dead, and you're there, don't start in about it or I'll pop you in the mouth. And then I'll still give you a good cussing.

However, if I wake up dead, and you're not there….

Fair enough, now I've only myself to cuss and don't beat yourself up over no one to pop in the mouth. Get over it, have a beer or two, pay your respects, remember me well, and whatever you do, keep climbing. And don't carry me around like a backpack, you did your best, and a least you tried and survived. Don't sit around moping, watching cliffhanger reruns, and feeling sorry for yourself. Better luck next time.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Thanks for the nice words Steve W., I am not looking for a rep, unless they have an 'a s s h o l e rep'!
Hey 101!, You got it. I am not gonna play the 'what if game'. Of 12 guys, 8 are climbers. 4 are groundies. Trained in ' aerial rescue' means just that. The ' Catch 22' thru me off a little until you posted.
Jeff

That's right...don't think, don't ponder the what ifs, osha will take care of all that for you, just preach The Rule Book(echos for effect). I'll play devil's advocate, expose osha's shortsights, and we'll all be content. Ah ah..don't bother getting up, I can see you are comfortable. oke:

C'mon man. I gotta give you a razz for being an OSHAite.

 

[Tree Machine]

I really try to adhere to OSHA regs. In hiring a noobie, I'll pull out the manual, read from page one that worker is responsible for his/her own safety. That's a good start.

Communication while in a noisy environment blows it for me. I can have the safety talk all I want but honestly, most of the time instruction is needed in-the-moment, if nothing more than to remind someone of something you instructed them on earlier, like (chipper running) "Ummm, you're on the street, there's no cones or Tree Work Ahead sign out"
Tough to do while in the tree and a machine running.
"Excuse me, I asked that you be aware of every passing car, acknowledge with eye contact and direct them past with arm motions."
or even, "Pardon me, but you are feeding the chipper with the engine at idle, throttle it up full, please."

 

[himiler]

Plenty of hindsight, no real experience

Communication while in a noisy environment blows it for me.

First I'm no climber. Got too many injuries for that, retired military, etc. .
Second, I'm no better than any groundie out there.
So here goes.
A whistle or small air horn as mentioned earlier would give you the ability to have some basic communication. One blast means look at me. Two blasts means heads up, get outta the way. Three blasts is safety warning, shut it down, etc. You get the picture.
Also I have those small pocket motorola walkie talkies that are pretty useful. They have an alert feature that usually can be heard unless it's just full production noisy. Between the two, I'm usually able to get across what I want with what I do, and stay safe. It's usually my family or close friends working with me, nothing big time. Total money invested might be $100 for you.
Tree, I'm thinking I would be still mad and stewing if what happened to you happened to me, but I do have to agree with new guys just not having a clue. They're in a new environment, they're thinking (or not) of all the new stuff plus how to walk and chew gum at the same time, etc..
Steve W.

 

[treeclimber101]

I really try to adhere to OSHA regs. In hiring a noobie, I'll pull out the manual, read from page one that worker is responsible for his/her own safety. That's a good start.

Communication while in a noisy environment blows it for me. I can have the safety talk all I want but honestly, most of the time instruction is needed in-the-moment, if nothing more than to remind someone of something you instructed them on earlier, like (chipper running) "Ummm, you're on the street, there's no cones or Tree Work Ahead sign out"
Tough to do while in the tree and a machine running.
"Excuse me, I asked that you be aware of every passing car, acknowledge with eye contact and direct them past with arm motions."
or even, "Pardon me, but you are feeding the chipper with the engine at idle, throttle it up full, please."

Or you teach with repitition no matter what the job is , you park set the cones and discuss whats gonna be happening , I have none of those problems and if I have to tell them how to be safe than theres a problem .. Granted it has taken ten years to find a crew that works well together but believe the men are there you just need to weed through some ###holes to fine them ..

 

[beastmaster]

I just finished 3 days of contract work trimming some tall Canary island pines. The first two days I arrived early so I could cone off the trees. Then I sat for an hour waiting for the crew to show up. Yesterday I arrived even earlier, coned off the trees, saddled up and started trimming these 90ft pines all by my lonesome, with this thread still fresh in my mind.
I was using a hand saw, loppers, and pole pruner, no chainsaw, and had one tree almost all done when the crew arrived.
Only one of them spoke English, and most of them were wearing i-pods so communication was next to impossible. Later in the day as foot traffic increased a groundy would yell something in some Mayan dialect if someone was walking under a tree, or if a bird was singing or what-ever. I think I really felt more comfortable and and stress free when I was alone. I felt more by my self with that crew there then when I was climbing alone.
Say what you want but those three days paid the mortgage this month Beastmaster

 

[treedoc2]

Hello all, hoping to find some clarity on a "two climber requirement" from osha. I went on their website to search for the subject without much luck, so hoping to get some input here. I've Heard that it is against osha policy to climb without another climber present but have never seen it in writing for myself. Does anyone know if this true and / or where I can see for myself? Also, is it illegal to climb a tree to set a pull rope solo?, Can I work in a tree with a handsaw solo? Or is it simply against the law to be in a tree solo period.
I have recently been hired as a groundskeeper and am their "tree guy". Problem for me is that I've climbed trees for 20 years and it seems so simple and is tempting to climb up a tree. I was told I would violate osha policy if I climbed without another climber present.

 

[jefflovstrom]

My OSHA and ANSI standards are at the office, but basically you need someone that can perform an aerial rescue, at least call 911.
Jeff

 

[oldboy]

Yep, I often work alone. Not up to osha standards I'm sure, but safety is always #1 priority, I like the concept of mindfulness. I'm interested in going through the necessary hoops to get my Isa cert.