Workman's Comp Bull ####

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We are lucky in Missouri. You don't have to have work comp unless you have over 5 employees. If you have family working for you you don't have to cover them at all. Family members do count towards your 5 employees but you don't have to cover them. When I did check into getting work comp it was going to be 27% I think.

Scott
 
What most companies do to lower WC costs is keep records of time spent on work sites- tree worker hours
-groundworker hours
Ground workers are classified as landscape maintenance employees.
That will put you in an entirely different bracket.
It makes a big difference.

If your insurance company is allowing that, they are screwing themselves because that is absolutely, positively not the case. If you assume that is the case and your insurance company finds out, get ready for a hefty audit bill.

http://www.cattland.com/codes.pdf
 
Well then you would be wrong....do you have one!!?? Costs me just over $700 a month, and thats just to cover 2 ground guys. Frivolous is a very subjective word. I grew up working and sucking it up if you had a minor injury.....NOT THESE DAYS! Is it legal for me to threaten to fire them if they make a stupid claim? Obviously not, but I can make their life miserable until they quite!!!

So? It costs you $700 per month even if they don't make a claim.

And yep, I have been paying into Workmans Comp goin on 25 years now, with rates fluctuating from a high of 21% to a low of 13.8%. I have been audited EVERY SINGLE YEAR! Never made a claim, nor has anyone that worked for me. Had my last audit on Dec 2, 2010. Had my best audit when the auditor failed to show up for an audit in which I was way over, in fact I owed 30k additional. To cover his ass, he sent me an "estimated" premium for 3k. Which I paid almost instantly as I recall (whew).

I got hit in the eye with a small concrete projectile once, bouned off the eyeball before I could even blink. Had to go to the doctor, and that prick insisted on making a claim at first and only relented when i explained to him like 39 times that, I was the owner and would pay him cash, ON THE SPOT. He finally accepted those terms but I didn't think he was going to.

At any rate, you aren't doing anything special for your guys by having comp. If they are abusing it, get rid of them.
 
What most companies do to lower WC costs is keep records of time spent on work sites- tree worker hours
-groundworker hours
Ground workers are classified as landscape maintenance employees.
That will put you in an entirely different bracket.
It makes a big difference.

That's what we do. Only, you can't classify groundies under landscape if they are on a tree job, only if the trees are under 14'.
Jeff ;)
 
Insurance in any form is a hard pill to swallow, ya hate when you dont need it and love it when you do!
 
I hate WC, but have to have it in order to get on a jobsite, even tho it is voluntary in TX. I have no problem paying on an employee that actually gets hurt on the job, but it seems to me there is a lot of fraud going on with the system. Too hard to prove.
Have a guy hurt his back lifting an engine out of his car Sat. afternoon, he comes to work Mon morn, works a few hours, then yells out he hurt his back, files a claim, and the employer is stuck with it. Liberal laws more or less favors the employee here. Insurance companies would rather pay than fight it, or even investigate it.
 
This sounds like bs actually. Workman's comp is for work related injuries. If your guys are getting hurt on your job, then they are rightfully making claims for the doctor bills. Workmans comp won't pay for frivolous aches and pains. I actually doubt you even have a policy based on your post.

Could be but life is like a limbo game is many aspects so don't be surprised. But this is some funny #### though.:hmm3grin2orange:
 
I have often thought about seeking help from one of those temp agencies but was fearful of what I would get. I guess my expectations are high but I also realize these guys may have no interest at all in actually helping but rather riding the temp agency clock and so forth.
I have worked with companies who have used them and it was sometimes less than pitiful and i don't want to have to weed through a mob of Mexicans. Hey, those guys are clear to work, The Government took them in didn't they? Its been done, there ya go.
If I could find decent help from a temp agency for 150 I would try it, maybe I will look.
 
I have often thought about seeking help from one of those temp agencies but was fearful of what I would get. I guess my expectations are high but I also realize these guys may have no interest at all in actually helping but rather riding the temp agency clock and so forth.
I have worked with companies who have used them and it was sometimes less than pitiful and i don't want to have to weed through a mob of Mexicans. Hey, those guys are clear to work, The Government took them in didn't they? Its been done, there ya go.
If I could find decent help from a temp agency for 150 I would try it, maybe I will look.

You won't find decent help from a temp labor co. You'll get warm bodies. That's it.
 
Are you a racist?
Jeff :D

That's not a racist comment by any fashion. It's simply what you get when you pull up to any given Home Depot, Lowes, Dunkin Donuts these days. Although around here, you get a decent portion of Guatemalan and Brazillians too.

If one was to describe the litteral mob of lets say "foriegn undocumented workers" that swarms my trucks every AM when we stop for coffee, said mob would best be described as latino in ethnicity.

If you actually want to see them hanging off of my trucks in the am, I'll have one of them hold tomorrows paper, and I'll take a pic for you.
 
I have often thought about seeking help from one of those temp agencies but was fearful of what I would get. I guess my expectations are high but I also realize these guys may have no interest at all in actually helping but rather riding the temp agency clock and so forth.
I have worked with companies who have used them and it was sometimes less than pitiful and i don't want to have to weed through a mob of Mexicans. Hey, those guys are clear to work, The Government took them in didn't they? Its been done, there ya go.
If I could find decent help from a temp agency for 150 I would try it, maybe I will look.

find someone you would like to have work for you, and have them go to the temp agency to apply. that way you get someone you like, and the paperwork / Workmans comp gets handled.
 
There is a lot going on in this thread that I would like to comment on; I'll try to keep it short. I used to pay almost 100% of payroll, I was in the "assigned risk pool, so I have learned quite a bit about reducing the workers comp bill.

Your WC bill is mostly determined by what is called your "experienced modifier". This is a simple number that is associated with your company for insurance purposes by an organization called National Council on Comp. Ins. or NCCI (you can contact them at Midwestern Division, P.O. 19430 Springfield, IL 62794-9430 or call them at 1800-622-4123 cust serv)
All the insurance companies report their expenses to NCCI, so switching companies will not help change your experience mod.

They calculate the experienced mod with a terribly complex formula that involves comparing the predicted injury related expenses for your work categories and the actual expenses incurred by your insurance company. It also factors in how many claims you have had in addition to the total expenses incurred. Fortunately, a cap is set at $5000 for each claim, so a huge injury does not affect your experienced mod any more than a serious injury.

1. The best way to get a lower workers comp bill is to get your experience modifier down as low as possible. A few years back, my experience mod was 1.66, and my workers comp bill for tree work was almost 100% of payroll!

some methods to get your experience lower:
Pay small medical bills yourself. In Missouri, you are allowed to pay for all medical expenses less than $500 for the express purpose of reducing your experience mod. Trust me, guys, it is worth it!

Do what you can to reduce your insurance companies losses. this includes monitoring your employees medical claims very carefully, taking injured employees to a health provider that specializes in occupational health injuries, and making DAMN sure that injured employees are required to return to work under limited duty as soon as the doctor releases them.

2. One month prior to renewing your WC policy every year, ask your insurance broker for a copy of your "loss runs". Even if you do not do anything with your copy of your incurred expenses in the last year, it puts your broker on notice that you are an experienced buyer, and that you are shopping around for a better price! You will probably see an immediate reduction in your renewal fee.

3. Do what you can to reduce your payroll in the more expensive categories. As has been noted above, you can divide your payroll into different categories, each of which has different fee schedules. My company employees in these categories:
Class Code
Tree pruning: 0106
Salesmen 8742
Clerical 8810
Park NOC 9102
Street cleaning 9402

Each category has its own relative rate of insurance expense, so the more you keep each employee registered in a less expensive workers comp rates, the more money you will have at the end of the year. One good way of keeping a good record of the different categories of pay is to pay each employee a different scale for different duties. Obviously, the employees will always be making sure that you pay them as long as possible in the higher rates. I maintain different pay scales for snow removal (street cleaning), tree pruning, and Park NOC (landscaping).

4. Obviously, it pays huge rewards to your bottom line if you can eliminate insurance fraud. My experience rate was very high due to a series of fraudulent or exaggerated work comp claims. I have been hammering away at the workers comp issue or 10 or 15 years now, and I went from an experienced mod of 1.66, to my current rate of .94 and an ARAP rate of 1.00 [your ARAP is another number that magically gets multiplied by your insurance company to make the bill bigger. Generally, the higher your experience mod, the higher your ARAP]

I hope all of this text helps somebody save some money, because I really, REALLY hate insurance companies, and workers comp in particular.
 
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There is a lot going on in this thread that I would like to comment on; I'll try to keep it short. I used to pay almost 100% of payroll, I was in the "assigned risk pool, so I have learned quite a bit about reducing the workers comp bill.

Your WC bill is mostly determined by what is called your "experienced modifier". This is a simple number that is associated with your company for insurance purposes by an organization called National Council on Comp. Ins. or NCCI (you can contact them at Midwestern Division, P.O. 19430 Springfield, IL 62794-9430 or call them at 1800-622-4123 cust serv)
All the insurance companies report their expenses to NCCI, so switching companies will not help change your experience mod.

They calculate the experienced mod with a terribly complex formula that involves comparing the predicted injury related expenses for your work categories and the actual expenses incurred by your insurance company. It also factors in how many claims you have had in addition to the total expenses incurred. Fortunately, a cap is set at $5000 for each claim, so a huge injury does not affect your experienced mod any more than a serious injury.

1. The best way to get a lower workers comp bill is to get your experience modifier down as low as possible. A few years back, my experience mod was 1.66, and my workers comp bill for tree work was almost 100% of payroll!

some methods to get your experience lower:
Pay small medical bills yourself. In Missouri, you are allowed to pay for all medical expenses less than $500 for the express purpose of reducing your experience mod. Trust me, guys, it is worth it!

Do what you can to reduce your insurance companies losses. this includes monitoring your employees medical claims very carefully, taking injured employees to a health provider that specializes in occupational health injuries, and making DAMN sure that injured employees are required to return to work under limited duty as soon as the doctor releases them.

2. One month prior to renewing your WC policy every year, ask your insurance broker for a copy of your "loss runs". Even if you do not do anything with your copy of your incurred expenses in the last year, it puts your broker on notice that you are an experienced buyer, and that you are shopping around for a better price! You will probably see an immediate reduction in your renewal fee.

3. Do what you can to reduce your payroll in the more expensive categories. As has been noted above, you can divide your payroll into different categories, each of which has different fee schedules. My company employees in these categories:
Class Code
Tree pruning: 0106
Salesmen 8742
Clerical 8810
Park NOC 9102
Street cleaning 9402

Each category has its own relative rate of insurance expense, so the more you keep each employee registered in a less expensive workers comp rates, the more money you will have at the end of the year. One good way of keeping a good record of the different categories of pay is to pay each employee a different scale for different duties. Obviously, the employees will always be making sure that you pay them as long as possible in the higher rates. I maintain different pay scales for snow removal (street cleaning), tree pruning, and Park NOC (landscaping).

4. Obviously, it pays huge rewards to your bottom line if you can eliminate insurance fraud. My experience rate was very high due to a series of fraudulent or exaggerated work comp claims. I have been hammering away at the workers comp issue or 10 or 15 years now, and I went from an experienced mod of 1.66, to my current rate of .94 and an ARAP rate of 1.00 [your ARAP is another number that magically gets multiplied by your insurance company to make the bill bigger. Generally, the higher your experience mod, the higher your ARAP]

I hope all of this text helps somebody save some money, because I really, REALLY hate insurance companies, and workers comp in particular.

A lot of good advise there. I want you to be aware that some laws have changed that can really haunt you for paying small claims without reporting them....It's too much to go into here but ask your insurance company about the new "Medicare Set-Aside" requirements. Also, losses under $5000 are the biggest factor in calculating your emod but the ones over $5000 do weigh in.

Also, Why all the hate for insurance companies? We know a lot of claims wreak of fraud but due to the circumstances and laws, the burden of proof is on us and there usually no way to PROVE(not strongly suspect) that it is fraudulent. If you had a 1.66 emod, I would bet that your insurance company has paid out a good bit more than you have paid in....just a guess though.
 
As a worker that got injured on the job, here is my take and experience on the whole "workers comp" from an employee's veiwpoint.

Broke a leg in a simple routine job and had only worked for this employer for a couple months.

My experience with my employer.

Good guy, although you could tell he was coached by lawyers as to what to say and when to say it. Made me feel very like I was faking or somehow trying to take advantage of him. I could tell it was not his normal personality, but out of fear of being sued he had his gaurd up. Understandable.

Insurance people. Again, I think the nurses and w/c agent were sincere but you could tell that they were coached from the lawyers.

Doctor. Again, either from oath or by nature you could tell he cared for his patient, but again it's a w/c claim and therefore he's in the middle torn between keeping the patient happy and at the same time keeping the person writing the check happy.

Me, I felt bad, especially for only having worked for this guy a couple months and now I was responsible for driving up his w/c rates. I got off of w/c very early, made my own secondary and third cast from supplies off the internet and home depot. I never solicited an attorney and while they settled and wrote me a check for $3100, I never asked, threatened, suggested, or anything like that for money. I guess the settlement is kinda required by the state of Missouri and the Judges frown on the insurance company if some kind of settlement is not offered and taken. I took the money, paid some bills and used the left over to take my son on his summer vacation. Sure I could of given the money to the company owner, but I doubt he would of taken it, and the vacation made up for not being able to take my son on vacation the year before when I was messed up, paying somebody else to mow my lawn, having my 6 year old son help with grocery shopping, moving my leg around, fetching me water, etc,.........the rental hospital bed that I had to pay for, the 2/3 wage of what I would of made, having my elderly parents take care of me, instead of the other way around, etc, etc, etc.

No real point to my story but in my opinion,
I hate people that take advantage of it because it makes people with legitimate claims suffer and causes high rates for people/bosses that are supplying jobs, however I hate people who think that every employee is looking for a free ride. There is no simple answer.

BTW, I know this guy and his nephew visit this site so I'll say this, while I don't get along with either one, (for different reasons) I don't have hard feeling for them and I never did mean for my accident to occur. For what its worth, both the fellow and his nephew are extremely good at their jobs. They are fearless climbers, well educated, dedicated towards aborculture, and take care of their customers. As some on this website already know, I just don't work well with others.
 
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So in effect, tree work in CA goes for about 40% higher than it does around here. If you could scale your op down to 3 full time guys on books, a chip truck, log truck, chipper and a 60ft bucket truck all paid for, what would you charge for a 10 hour day out there?

Everything in this state is too darned expensive.
 
Well then you would be wrong....do you have one!!?? Costs me just over $700 a month, and thats just to cover 2 ground guys. Frivolous is a very subjective word. I grew up working and sucking it up if you had a minor injury.....NOT THESE DAYS! Is it legal for me to threaten to fire them if they make a stupid claim? Obviously not, but I can make their life miserable until they quite!!!

CA is an at will employment state - basically you can let them go for anything that is not prohibited by law (gender, race, age, etc.)
 
Well then you would be wrong....do you have one!!?? Costs me just over $700 a month, and thats just to cover 2 ground guys. Frivolous is a very subjective word. I grew up working and sucking it up if you had a minor injury.....NOT THESE DAYS! Is it legal for me to threaten to fire them if they make a stupid claim? Obviously not, but I can make their life miserable until they quite!!!
two words...........drug test........
 
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